Author Topic: 2Stone high temperature ovens  (Read 53191 times)

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Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #125 on: July 22, 2008, 10:09:08 AM »
Mad Ernie,

Glad to hear you are getting more heat. Here is a little something that may also help, since much of the heat your burner puts out relates to the size of the little pin hole where the gas is mixed with the oxygen. If this hole has any blockage whatsoever it will cut down on your heat. These tip cleaners are used on torches since the same thing applies there and is crucial to a good flame.

available at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017Z04Q2


sdgirl,

You are truly giving a lot of people a run for their money on this forum, keep it up.

willard


Offline Fingerstyle

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #126 on: July 22, 2008, 01:47:26 PM »
SD
Beautiful sausage, mushrooms and onions pie! Reminds me of one of my favorite omelets - sausage, swiss, shrooms, onion, & sour cream (AKA Old Timer). I can tell already there's an Old Timer pizza breakfast in my near future.

Best regards,

Vic :chef:
"... I say we ride some gravity." - Patrick Rizzo

Offline fazzari

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #127 on: July 26, 2008, 09:59:06 PM »
Well, I got my 2 stone yesterday, and had one hell of a fun evening making pizza tonite.  The first one is a pepperoni, mushroom, mozzarella pizza on Tom Lehmann's New York style recipe at PMQ.  I cooked it right on the stone at 600 degrees, and although the pizza was delicious, it needed more bake time which I didn't have or i would have ruined the bottom..  The second one is a mushroom, Walla Walla Sweet onion, beef, mozzarella on mustard sauce...using Big Dave's old faithful at PMQ.  I was smarter on this one as I used a screen and baked it at 675 degrees....bottom was golden brown and all the beef was cooked perfectly...by the way...this is an excellent crust recipe.  The last one is my own neapolitan creation, 66 percent caputo flour...with tomato sauce, anchovy, garlic and feta....I really blew this one.  It was too thick and didn't have time to bake thoroughly, and the bottom was black...yuk!  Oven was at 800 degrees, and I just wasn't ready for how quick it cooked...but I'll be ready next time....got more dough brewing!!

John

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #128 on: July 26, 2008, 10:40:54 PM »
First... Fingerstyle and Willard... somehow missed your posts, but thanks so much for the encouraging words!  I am SO enjoying pizzas now with the higher heat of the 2stone!

fazzari,
Those are nice looking pizzas, especially for your first run on your new 2stone!  There IS a learning curve and part of it is learning to regulate the heat from the propane tank!  My best so far have baked with the bottom stone temp at 700-750o F.  I have not needed a screen at all, and I have not burned a pizza yet.  Bottom has been just a little charred (a good thing!) and all the toppings were perfect... cheese perfectly melted and bubbly.

My question is... are you sure that your IR gun is calibrated?  From your description, it sounds to me like you are baking at a higher temp than the gun says.  Another thing you have to remember with the 2stone is that you can't load the toppings on too heavily... moderation is the key.  We Americans are used to heavy toppings and you just can't do that with this type of pizza!

Also, have you tried JerryMac's NY style same day dough formula?  It's not meant for high temps, but I have had GREAT success with it so far!  As per Willard's advice, I keep the dough balls at ~7 oz and stretch to make a 10-12" pizza... which works perfectly.  Since I bought the 2stone, my pizzas have DEFINITLY gone from GREAT to INCREDIBLE!

Keep up the good work... keep experimenting... and keep us posted!!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #129 on: July 26, 2008, 11:10:43 PM »
Mots,

I don't think it's a calibration issue with his IR gun. It's more likely his way of measuring.


Fazz,

find out what the distance to spot ratio is on your IR (should say in the manual that came with it) because D/S Ratios vary greatly. Some info on that...


What is the distance to spot ratio?

D/S Ratio- Distance to Spot ratio refers to a very important feature of your infrared thermometer.  This ratio is the size of the area being evaluated by the infrared thermometer as it relates to distance.  In other words, the area being measured becomes larger as the distance increases.  This has a profound impact on the accuracy or precision of the reading.  If the target you are measuring is 6 inches in size, and your infrared thermometer has a D/S ratio of 8:1, than the maximum distance you can reliably measure the temperature of the target is 48 inches.  Beyond this distance, not only is the target being measured, but whatever else falls within the "spot" is being measured as well.  This means that if a very hot object is the target, and it is in cooler surroundings, than measurements taken beyond the maximum distance will include cooler elements, and lowering the "average" of what is in the "spot".

D/S Ratio X Target Size,   or   8:1 X 6 = maximum measure distance of 48 inches.

As the target size decreases, or the distance to the target increases, a larger D/S Ratio becomes necessary.  Using the same example above, and changing first the target size, and then the D/S ratio, you can see that this formula helps you decide the correct D/S ratio and therefore the Infrared Thermometer for your needs.

D/S Ratio X Target Size,   or   8:1 X 2 = maximum measure distance of 16 inches.

D/S Ratio X Target Size,   or 12:1 X 2 = maximum measure distance of 24 inches.


Hope that helps
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #130 on: July 27, 2008, 12:08:39 AM »
Quote
Another thing you have to remember with the 2stone is that you can't load the toppings on too heavily... moderation is the key.

Mots,

Uhm...not always.  ::)

I don't know, but I have loaded this one and it turned out great.

What I liked about it, and a couple of my buddies, too, was that the toppings were still fresh and not baked to death (BtD). The pie had a very nice crunch, the crust was light and the cheese perfectly melted. It was a refreshing pizza, if you will.

It was topped with fresh tomatoes, mushrooms, black olives, red onions, fresh garlic and red bell peppers...all fresh and unprepared/un-precooked before topping the pie.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 02:15:56 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #131 on: July 27, 2008, 03:26:47 PM »
Mike,

I didn't think about that ratio... I guess because I measure my stone temp from as close as I can get considering the heat.  Good point.  If he's standing any distance away, that could make a difference.

As for the toppings... It appears that your crust is quite a bit thicker than mine.  I don't think mine would physically support as many toppings as you have there!  I'm curious now... what weight dough ball are you using for what size pizza?  Mine are just under 7 oz for a 10- 11" pizza.  Pretty dang thin when stretched, but the oven spring is phenomenal, especially around the edges!  And I agree about the "fresh factor" of the toppings!  The only thing I ever precook is any raw meat, like sausage, because I'm afraid it would still be fairly raw with such a short bake time.  But, the tomatoes, onions, peppers, mushrooms... never precook those... it's SO much better that way, IMHO, and I've never had a watering-out problem, I think because I thinly slice everything.   And, yes, refreshing is a good word!

John,
I was not familiar with Big Dave's dough recipe, so I went out to the PMQ site and looked it up... I see that it has sugar in it.  The sugar will caramelize and cause your dough to blacken prematurely.  You might want to leave the sugar out and try again.  Hope that helps!

~mots aka sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #132 on: July 27, 2008, 03:54:17 PM »
Mots,

The crust was actually pretty thin. I usually use 10.5 oz for a 14" pie.  :chef:
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #133 on: July 27, 2008, 07:52:39 PM »
John,

Great looking pies. I just did a pie at 900 this after noon not because I was planning on it but I forgot about the oven and when I got there it was at 1050. I stretched it out paper thin and had no toppings but frozen diced Grande and pine nuts. It was slightly burned but was still good. I many times run the pies straight from the fridge into the oven without bringing them to room temp, but have also discovered that they bake a lot better at high temps if they have been sitting out for a while before I bake. (my standard baking temp. is around 750)

I think there may be something to what Mike is saying because I have never burned anything at 700 and lower. But what ever works for you is good. I used a screen for a long time and got some great pies that way too, so if that works for you go for it, it sure makes the loading process smoother.
(Your second one looks perfect)

regards
willard
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 08:00:50 PM by 2stone »


Offline fazzari

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #134 on: July 27, 2008, 09:51:52 PM »
Thanks all, but you gotta know, I bought this oven so I could bake a wide variety of pizza.  I don't plan on changing recipes to fit the oven, I'm gonna attempt to make the oven, along with utensils bake what I want.  Having said that, it's the neapolitan pizzas that have me in a tizzy right now...I've cooked some beauties in a simple deck  maybe 580 degrees...so I wanted to expand my horizons a bit with this oven using more heat.  Below, is a pizza my wife and I had for dinner...it's a cracker crust topped with mustard, very light mozzarella, olives, mushrooms, onions, pinapple and green peppers.  If you've ever cooked cracker crusts, you know they are temperamental...oven to cool, they don't brown, oven too hot you get a thick dark tough crust.  I started it on the stone at 585 degrees, let it cook a few minutes and saw the bottom was cooking a bit too fast...threw a screen under it and there it is ....perfection.  I have no doubts, I'll be able to cook whatever I want in this oven...Thanks Willard

John

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #135 on: July 27, 2008, 10:13:04 PM »
John,

You loaded that puppy up!  ;D Looks great. If you want to make different pies with the 2stone, you can always control the temp to your needs.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline pwaldman

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #136 on: July 29, 2008, 09:51:25 PM »
Finally decided to take some pics of my 2Stone efforts.  I've had it for about two months and it has taken some getting used to!  The first two pics are of a NY Style pepperoni using Kyrol which I am favoring more than KASL because of the ease of browning.  Next two are similar but "spicy" with chili oil drizzled on the cheese and spicy pepperoni.  Both of these pies were cooked around 600o.  The next two are simple sauce and cheese using caputo and starter; taste was OK but not spectacular; cooked at 750o.  I guess it all comes down to personal preference which my family tends toward the crispier crust of NY Style.  The convenience of IDY vs natural starter also makes me want to give up on the time you have to spend tending the starter and the dough fermentation process.  I can make 10 dough balls using IDY in 40 minutes and freeze them for up to 6 weeks with little additional effort.  I guess my standards in the pursuit of the ultimate pie are not as high as others; my taste buds are like my hearing - good enough is close enough to high fidelity.

Pete

Offline scottfsmith

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #137 on: July 31, 2008, 03:19:58 PM »
John, it sounds like you may have a setup where the stone is getting hotter than you want.  You should also look into the trick of putting alu foil under the rotating stone, shiny side down, to make the stone heat up less fast compared to the air.  On my grill I had the problem of the outside edges of the stone getting too hot compared to the inner edges and so I put some alu foil around the outside 2" and that fixed that.  One other trick to consider is to time the warmup.  I find that after 20 minutes I have a perfect stone/air temp ratio.  If I warm up for less I have too cool a stone, and if I warm up more I have too hot a stone.  I aim to cook at around 750F stone and 950F air temp.   For high-temperature baking the air has to be 100-200F hotter than the stone or you will burn the bottom before the top is done.  To me the primary "art" of the 2stone is to figure out how to get the right stone and air temp you want -- you can't just dial up the two numbers separately since you have only one heat source.

Scott


Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #138 on: August 01, 2008, 09:34:02 AM »
Mike, John and Pete,

The pies you are all making are the type of pies I strive to make.
You are all an inspiration, keep up the good work.

Pete, the bottom shot of the last one is almost perfection (IMHO)

Scott has done work to understand and document how the 2stone works, He posted a very interesting graph (buried somewhere) on exactly how it behaves and what the differences of stone temp and air temp are. He is right on in his analysis and description.

Willard

Offline fazzari

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #139 on: August 04, 2008, 12:01:48 AM »
Thanks for all the help all...tonight I thought I'd try the aluminum foil trick, and as I picked up the stone, what caught my eye...but about a 3 inch square peace of metal I had not put in my oven.....hmmm, John, do you think it goes under the stone on top of the pin????  That's where I put it, and my pizzas were fabulous tonight!!!

John

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #140 on: August 04, 2008, 01:47:23 AM »
John

Those pizzas are even better that what you posted last time!  Beautiful!

That piece of metal actually goes on the propane burner frame, centered above the burner on the frame itself to divert the flames a little.  My first reaction was the same as yours... I put it under the lower stone to protect it from the pin, but Willard corrected me.  When you put it even lower, it helps to spread the flames so that the heat is more even.  Works good for me!  DH LOVES the pizzas I have made!  And it only gets better!

I will be posting the pics from his birthday pizzas shortly... like probably tomorrow!  MMMM.... they were EXCELLENT!!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline fazzari

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2008, 05:52:47 PM »
much, much appreciate the info.....can't wait for the next batch now

John


Offline 2stone

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #142 on: August 04, 2008, 07:32:27 PM »
Had the pleasure of having lunch with Mark (one of the owners of the company that manufactures the Fibrament baking stones) He's on vacation this week by the lake not far from us so we were able to hook up.
It's always nice to meet someone face to face that you have talked with on the phone many times. I had someone shoot a picture with my cell phone so excuse the poor quality. (that's Mark on the right)

Thought you might find it interesting to see one of the main faces behind the
"Fibrament Stones" that many of you use. 

Willard
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 07:34:38 PM by 2stone »

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2008, 08:49:59 PM »
Willard,

Did the conversation go well? You both are making fists and look like you are going to fight about any Fibrament price increases he is hitting you up for.

LOL


Kidding

PNW

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2008, 10:10:03 PM »
DH's birthday was last week, so he requested PIZZA for dinner!! Not a big surprise, really!
Here's the first two... one more below!

He had his choice of toppings for three pizzas... so, the first one was Hunts tomato sauce with basil, garlic and oregano, Polly-O whole milk mozz, prosciutto and fresh mushroom.

The second one was the usual "kitchen sink" variety... same for sauce and cheese, but pepperoni, black olive, onion and green pepper. I also added a few grinds of pecorino romano after I took the pic.

I also baked these pizzas in quick succession rather than waiting between while we partially devour the first one and I shape and dress the second one... so I didn't give the oven as much time to recover. Also, we have a device in line on the tank to measure the contents. I think it is fouled and needs to come off. Not only is it not giving correct readings (I know by the weight that the tank is NOT empty!) plus I don't seem to be getting the volume of gas I usually get, so the oven didn't get as hot. These pizza baked at just over 600 instead of my usual 750. But it still goes to show that even at lower temps, I was able to get a nice bake. These were also made with JerryMac's same-day dough but sans sugar this time. This also made the crusts brown more slowly, but I couldn't tell any difference in the flavor. All in all, I will leave the honey in next time... and make sure that the pyro set-up is working properly! These were still absolutely delicious, but I would have liked a little more crispiness to the crust. DH didn't notice the difference at all... he just did his Homer Simpson impression.... MMMMMMMM......PIZZA!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #145 on: August 06, 2008, 10:14:11 PM »
This one, he wanted "extra cheese"... so I put fresh, thinly sliced tomatoes, fresh mozz (a new brand, Mozzarella Fresca, that I don't like as much as the Precious) imported fontina and a little of the Polly-O with a little EVOO and fresh basil. It was cheese overkill! I usually put 4- 5 oz on a pizza and this one had at least twice that! It was the last pizza baked and I think the cheese, even though it was close to room temp by the time I used it still cooled the already-cool 2stone down a bit more and the thin crust in the middle didn't get as crisp as usual and you can see it looks a bit anemic! BUT, it was STILL delicious!  And, DH-the-cheese-troll was a happy man!

I also baked one baguette, for which the temp of the oven was perfect! The crust was crisp and brown, the crumb cool and silky. Perfect! DH got a nice ham sandwich on half of it the next day for his lunch. (I got the other half!!)

~sd

Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #146 on: August 06, 2008, 11:01:15 PM »
Mots,

You're bread's insane! Looks fantastic.  Kudos to you!! :chef:

And so does the pizza but you're right...with that much cheese it could have benefited from a hotter temp.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2008, 11:31:32 PM »
Thanks, Mike!
Yeah, the bread was really good... I learned pretty quickly to keep the loaves at under 7 oz. ea so I can get them out of the 2stone!  And, yes, the cheese pizza would have been fine if baked at a higher temp.  And, next time, I will go back to my normal amount of cheese!

~mots aka sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline Essen1

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2008, 11:42:42 PM »
Mots,

You can pile it up any way you want, and I'd be damned if they all don't come out fine.   :)
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline TikiGod

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Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #149 on: August 09, 2008, 09:52:04 PM »
Hello Everybody,
I've been reading this forum for a long time, and have been making pizza in my oven for a few years now. After reading everything about the 2Stone, I bit the bullet and bought one for my Genesis Grill. I bought the 15", and Willard was very, very helpful. This was my first try at the new unit - Bob's Red AP flour, IDY, Kosher salt and water - same day ferment. Deck temp was 775F, and the Pizza cooked in 3 minutes. 250 gram skin,  Bionature Italian Tomatoes, Grande whole milk mozz in slices, sprinkle of Parm and Percorino, Feta, Roasted Red Peppers, Kalamata Olives and sliced Onions. Needless to say, the 2Stone works beautifully. I am a Brewmaster by trade, and my background is Organic Chemistry, so i approached the 2Stone like a lab, and it worked quite a charm....Best. Pizza. Ever.....
Jamie


 

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