Author Topic: 2Stone high temperature ovens  (Read 52578 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FVG

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 39
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #150 on: August 10, 2008, 05:31:29 PM »
Hello Everyone:

Have not posted for a while but have continued to make pizza on the 2Stone - going on 10 months now of using it. Have been able to enjoy home made pizza pizza through the hot southern summer which was impossible previously.

Picture is from this afternoon - 100% Caputo 00 cooked at 820 degrees



Offline Pizza_Not_War

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 388
  • Location: Portland OR
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #151 on: August 10, 2008, 05:55:11 PM »
Hello Everybody,
I've been reading this forum for a long time, and have been making pizza in my oven for a few years now. After reading everything about the 2Stone, I bit the bullet and bought one for my Genesis Grill. I bought the 15", and Willard was very, very helpful. This was my first try at the new unit - Bob's Red AP flour, IDY, Kosher salt and water - same day ferment. Deck temp was 775F, and the Pizza cooked in 3 minutes. 250 gram skin,  Bionature Italian Tomatoes, Grande whole milk mozz in slices, sprinkle of Parm and Percorino, Feta, Roasted Red Peppers, Kalamata Olives and sliced Onions. Needless to say, the 2Stone works beautifully. I am a Brewmaster by trade, and my background is Organic Chemistry, so i approached the 2Stone like a lab, and it worked quite a charm....Best. Pizza. Ever.....
Jamie
Tiki - Pizza looks great! The only observation I have is that with a 775 temperature on the stone and three minutes baking a 250 gram skin, it would be burnt to a crisp for me. I am using the same set up as you. We use different flour (100% Caputo or a mix of Caputo & BF), but I can't see how that would account for a 1 minute difference. How are you measuring deck temp?

Just curious about the above, does not really matter if you can make a great pizza!

PNW

Offline TikiGod

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #152 on: August 10, 2008, 07:46:36 PM »
Hey PNW,
I bought an infrared thermometer after reading all these threads....I figured that it is a requirement before using the 2Stone. I did the pre-heat with the lid down, and as soon as the deck hit 750, I put in the 1st pizza (pre-heat was 18 minutes - ambient temp was 74). I left the lid cracked open using the 2stone lid prop, and I ended up cooking 4 pizzas total. After each one was pulled, I closed the lid, and  I was careful to re-measure the deck before each pizza went in. As the cooking progressed, the deck got hotter till the last one at 775. I checked the deck after I pulled the last one, and it was 740, so I did lose some heat as it cooked. But, it worked great!....
Jamie

Offline Pizza_Not_War

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 388
  • Location: Portland OR
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #153 on: August 10, 2008, 08:58:55 PM »
Hey PNW,
I bought an infrared thermometer after reading all these threads....I figured that it is a requirement before using the 2Stone. I did the pre-heat with the lid down, and as soon as the deck hit 750, I put in the 1st pizza (pre-heat was 18 minutes - ambient temp was 74). I left the lid cracked open using the 2stone lid prop, and I ended up cooking 4 pizzas total. After each one was pulled, I closed the lid, and  I was careful to re-measure the deck before each pizza went in. As the cooking progressed, the deck got hotter till the last one at 775. I checked the deck after I pulled the last one, and it was 740, so I did lose some heat as it cooked. But, it worked great!....
Jamie
You and everyone else gets faster warm up times than I do. Willard and I worked on that for awhile, I had the Weber rebuilt with all new parts 1.5 times and I have learned to live with it. Two minutes usually bakes a pie for me @ 750 with a pretty good char to it. I guess it must be that the dough formula differences do matter a lot.

What part of the country are you a "brewmaster" in? I just took up the brewing hobby and have a batch of IPA going at the moment. Trying to decide if I should move to a kegerator instead of the bottle for future batches.

Enjoy the 2stone - give the Caputo a try as it was made for the high temps.

PNW

Offline sourdough girl

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 664
  • Location: Marysville, WA
  • First the bread, NOW the pizza dough!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #154 on: August 10, 2008, 09:35:42 PM »
TikiGod and FVG,

Those pizzas look GREAT!!  I've been using my 2stone since the middle of June... and the pizzas just get better as I learn and try different things!

And yeah, I agree that you really need an IR thermometer... can't really do it right unless you KNOW that the stone temp is HIGH!

Thanks for keeping me hungry for pizza!

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #155 on: August 11, 2008, 07:25:30 PM »
This is not a wood fired oven, clearly one can see the gas burners. Question? Why post this this pic as a wood fired oven?
       Don

Willard,

The size of the legs that we can buy already measure 14.5 inches. I would like at least another 6 inches. The design that is already available works really well. Simple and effective. So I wouldn't reinvent the wheel. What I am looking for is the ability to sit in a regular outside chair and monitor the bake. Remember that I am still baking in the 1 1/2 inch tin plated steel pans, so the room to see the pizza baking is limited but I have no problem so far. It is just uncomfortable with the oven so low to the ground. Even with the extentions. Which are a joke, if you need more height.You might consider designing the legs with an option to adjust them to a height of each owners preference. But that might be to complicated. You could consider selling different heights of leg extentions so the individual owner could try out the height and see if it works out to his or her preference. Each owner will be of a different body type and what would be comfortable for me might be not so comforatable to another. But this leg extention thing needs to be addressed and solved. With your skill set that should be so easy and another profit area for you.

As Larry the cable guy says, Get-R-Done.  ;)

Let me know when you do. I will be the first in line to buy the longer leg extentions.

MWTC  :chef:
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 07:27:02 PM by buceriasdon »

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #156 on: August 11, 2008, 07:29:08 PM »
Well it`s clear I don`t know how to post pertaining to a single post. Now I remember why I don`t like forum formats. Sorry. Ignore. Don
This is not a wood fired oven, clearly one can see the gas burners. Question? Why post this this pic as a wood fired oven?
       Don


Offline TikiGod

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #157 on: August 12, 2008, 04:42:08 PM »
You and everyone else gets faster warm up times than I do. Willard and I worked on that for awhile, I had the Weber rebuilt with all new parts 1.5 times and I have learned to live with it. Two minutes usually bakes a pie for me @ 750 with a pretty good char to it. I guess it must be that the dough formula differences do matter a lot.

What part of the country are you a "brewmaster" in? I just took up the brewing hobby and have a batch of IPA going at the moment. Trying to decide if I should move to a kegerator instead of the bottle for future batches.

Enjoy the 2stone - give the Caputo a try as it was made for the high temps.

PNW

Hey PNW,
I have a Natural Gas Genesis, so it does get hot pretty fast. I got rid of my propane when they went to those "safety" tanks....it was like they cut out 50% of the heat! So, I am the Brewmaster at Full Sail in Hood River, OR. And, go for the kegerator, you will never look back, and you'll make more beer, because packaging is easier!
Jamie

Offline TikiGod

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #158 on: August 15, 2008, 03:10:17 PM »
Hello everybody,
Here is tonight's Pizza. A little higher hydration dough, Bionature Italian Tomatoes, Grande whole milk mozz, sprinkle of Parm and Percorino with mushrooms, olives, and arugula pesto. Deck temp was 780 and the pizza was cooked in 3 minutes. Next week, I'm going to go up a bit on temp......
Jamie


Offline 2stone

  • Lifetime Member
  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 730
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #159 on: August 16, 2008, 09:49:13 PM »
Had my nose to the grindstone for a while, haven't had a chance to post much.

PNW,

Mark's a real nice guy and yes I do try to beat him up but never really get anywhere so we didn't get into that too much. They really do make a great product though and are real nice people to deal with. I think the fist clenching had more to do with the fact that we were getting very tired of "striking a pose" since the guy who we asked to take the picture was having a hard time figuring out how my cell phone worked.


Mike,

I'm going to cut down on the fresh yeast a bit and take another stab at it. I think I had too much last
time and the dough balls blew after 3 days. So I'll try half as much this time and see.


sdgirl and FVG

Your pizza's are approaching Picasso levels....... "seriously"


Jamie,

You really came out of the gate in full force....BEAUTIFUL PIES!
I think it would be really neat if you could enlighten us all on the similarities between dough fermentation and beer brewing. I have often thought that they share many of the same elements, and learning to understand them is probably essential to the flavor of the crust.


regards,
willard



Offline MWTC

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 517
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #160 on: September 03, 2008, 12:17:33 AM »
Willard,

Do you think the air temperature that is achieved during the warm-up period reaches a plateau and stays there or is it a continual upward climb? I understand that the stone is a continual climb to the point where it's to hot, but what about the air flowing out of the front? A plateau or continual upward climb just like the stone?

I'm thinking the gas flow adjustment, adjusts the gas to a chosen constant rate, and realize that turning it upward will change the area of a plateau if thats possible.

What do you think?


MWTC  :chef:

Offline Mad_Ernie

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 752
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Kansas City area
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #161 on: September 03, 2008, 09:30:54 AM »
Willard:

Well, after over 2 months and various family issues I finally got my pictures of my second attempt at using the 2-stone on my new gas grill.  BTW, your tips on improving the temperature were right on.  Removing the heat shields helped a lot!  I also added a little more flour (about 1/8 cup) to the dough to make it less moist.

I do not have access currently to the proper ingredients for a neopolitan pizza, like caputo 00 flour, so I made a more NY style pizza using the JerryMac recipe. For cheese, I used a blend of mozz, cheddar, and provolone.  I forget which sauce recipe I used.  For toppings, one was a tomato, basil and steak, and the other had ham/Canadian bacon plus mushrooms.

You can see my set up down below and the results down below.  Graci and danke!   ;D
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 09:32:38 AM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Bistro

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 18
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #162 on: September 06, 2008, 04:20:06 PM »
I'm looking forward to getting the information on the commercial use after I have spent four hours reading the entire thread again. Last year you were just getting started with this now it sounds like you have perfected the stone. I  look forward to speaking with you soon.

Offline 2stone

  • Lifetime Member
  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 730
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #163 on: September 07, 2008, 04:55:27 PM »
MWTC

I think both the top stone and the bottom take time to heat up and when they reach the desired peak can hold the heat for some time before it finally dissipates. The air itself can almost be turned on and off at will and can be controlled almost instantly. For example: if the top is done and the bottom still needs more time you can get that by shutting off the oven completely and the bottom will continue baking from the residual heat stored up in the stone. Though there is still some baking continuing from the radiant top it is nothing compared to the air, which is the most flexible and controllable element in the entire process.


Mad Ernie,

Your pies look great...I like Caputo 00 but otherwise after trying out tons of different flours I think KA AP is one of my favorites that can be gotten locally and really makes a great tasting crust.

Both my desktop and laptop were on the verge of collapse, so I have just gone through a major upgrade from XP to Vista (I can see why people complain) I'm ready to make some more Pizza!



Bistro,

It has been a year now and we have made several improvements. The Pizza Pro has gotten several new improvements and has become one of our best selling ovens for both commercial and residential use.


Regards,
Willard


Here is the latest
rendition of the Pizza Pro.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 04:57:27 PM by 2stone »

Offline Fingerstyle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #164 on: September 08, 2008, 10:09:01 AM »

It has been a year now and we have made several improvements. The Pizza Pro has gotten several new improvements and has become one of our best selling ovens for both commercial and residential use.
...
Here is the latest rendition of the Pizza Pro. 

Bravo Willard!

Are there pictures or a description of how your new "turbo top" compares to the fibrament top stone?

Thanks,

Vic
"... I say we ride some gravity." - Patrick Rizzo

Offline 2stone

  • Lifetime Member
  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 730
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #165 on: September 10, 2008, 08:56:56 AM »
Hi Vic

There is substantially more mass, but it's still is able to heat up faster. The higher mass reduces the recovery time and simulates a Wood Fired Brick Oven more.

Willard

Offline TikiGod

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #166 on: September 19, 2008, 11:52:12 PM »
Hey everybody,
I've been out of town for a while, but here is last week's attempt. 850 deck temp 2:15ish cook time.
Jamie


Offline TikiGod

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #167 on: September 19, 2008, 11:57:27 PM »
And tonight's....... 775 deck temp 2:30ish cook time....I think I like the 750 - 800 temps the best so far. Great flavor...everything cooks well, and tender crispy crust. I might try 00 flour and higher temps, but these results are pretty tasty!

Willard! Best! Accessory! for-my-grill! Ever!
Jamie

Offline TikiGod

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #168 on: September 20, 2008, 12:01:27 AM »
Hey Willard,
Let me do some research on the beer yeast for baking and I'll get back to the group. As far as I know, from the brewing end of things, the two best known yeasts available to home bakers originated in breweries in two famous mid-western towns.......
Jamie

Offline 2stone

  • Lifetime Member
  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 730
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #169 on: October 07, 2008, 11:31:42 AM »
Sounds good Jamie,
The pies look great!


Lately I have been doing some experimenting, trying to get more control over the cheese and crust outcomes.
The 2stage bake works pretty well and offers  several advantages especially when you are using "extreme heat"

Picture#1
The onions are piled on high enough that normally this would help lead to a wet soggy crust. The pie is baked this way for the first half so the sauce and the toppings get unimpeded heat and airflow allowing much of the moisture to burn off before the cheese is applied.

Picture#2
Halfway through the bake it is pulled out onto the rack and while the cheese is being applied the bottom is able to breath and let off some of the moisture that was trapped while it was on the stone. this takes no more than 10- 15 seconds and I do it when I can see that the crust has fully risen and has developed its final form with a reasonable amount of structure to it. The cheese is applied more sparingly than normal, and since the top is already heated it begins to melt immediately. The cheese being used is a standard grade provolone mozz low moisture skim mix that is shredded. Most shredded cheeses from your local supermarket turn out well this way.

Picture#3
As you can see the crust is now nice and charred and the cheese is melted and browned to perfection. There is no oily separation that you would normally get from this type of cheese in a full bake. This allows for full control of the cheese melting/baking and you can dial it up or down depending on when you apply it. This allows you to get a similar finished "cheese consistency" that you would normally get from a high quality fresh mozz at many times the price. The finished pie is then pulled off onto the rack where it is allowed to dry out again and cool down for 15-20 seconds.

The front rack will soon be available as an add on to all the ovens, and hopefully I will have one that can be retrofitted for those who already have a 2stone oven.

Willard



 

Offline WestCountry

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 151
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #170 on: January 16, 2009, 11:55:05 AM »
Hey All,

I recently purchased the 2stone inferno oven. I LOVE this new oven, and Willard has been extremely HELPFUL with any oven and pizza question I have been having (Thanks Willard!!). I decided to give him a break (from me) and throw out some questions here to the forum. I am still in the stage of getting used to the oven - as I have only fired it up 4 times so far, and have been having a blast experimenting with various dough recipes to figure out which I like the best.   ;D

Yesterday I tried JerryMac 1-day recipe at high heat ...actually Pete-zza's translation of that recipe:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=db484a93354b5dda3f7db59b0c9b7869&topic=6515.msg55855#msg55855).

In the past, I have had GREAT success with this recipe several times in my home 550 degree oven (Thanks Jerry!). Yesterday I tried that recipe with 2 smaller dough balls 250 grams each (KABF) at 750 and 650 degrees in the 2stone. They looked perfect on top, but the bottoms were too burned and charred (where the char/burn was kinda sticking to the stone - to the point I had to really use a metal spatula to un-stick it from the stone.).

I probably cooked them for 2-3 minutes (?) ....but to be honest, I did not time them.

1) I am wondering if it was the honey that I included into the dough that might have caused the severe char/burn on the bottom?  The interesting thing is I am pretty sure (from other threads) that SD Girl uses JerryMac recipe with the sugar or honey and does not have that happen.

2) Also wondering what is causing the dough to stick to stone while cooking? Could that be the sugar in dough burning onto the stone or maybe the higher hydration/wetness causing it to stick.  (I really notice the sticking where the burnt/char points of contact are.)
 
I took some photo's but will need to get them uploaded here hopefully soon.

I am thinking as a next step, to try JerryMac recipe again (at high-heat), but perhaps leave out the honey/sugar. Again thanks for the support, you all are awesome, and I am so glad to be a part of things here.
  :D
Chris

Offline Pizza_Not_War

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 388
  • Location: Portland OR
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #171 on: January 16, 2009, 01:06:26 PM »
1) I am wondering if it was the honey that I included into the dough that might have caused the severe char/burn on the bottom?  The interesting thing is I am pretty sure (from other threads) that SD Girl uses JerryMac recipe with the sugar or honey and does not have that happen.

2) Also wondering what is causing the dough to stick to stone while cooking? Could that be the sugar in dough burning onto the stone or maybe the higher hydration/wetness causing it to stick.  (I really notice the sticking where the burnt/char points of contact are.)
 
You lucky devil ! I would love to have the inferno instead of my 2stone grill. I only use dough that is flour, water, salt & yeast (sourdough). 00 flours, Caputo or San Felice and recently have been moving back to KA all purpose which my family seems to prefer as it is light and airy but has a browner crisper feel to it. I can go with either one. I would not be using sugar or honey and would stick to high heat recipes only. The longer 24 hour room temperature ferment works very well with the 2stone high heat.

My dough has never stuck to the stone.  Good luck with it and enjoy!

PNW

Offline WestCountry

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 151
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #172 on: January 16, 2009, 01:38:39 PM »
Thanks PNW. Yea- I think it may be the sugar/honey. I tried a varasano style recipe and it didn't have that problem with burn or sticking. I need to keep experimenting.

I can't believe how HOT this oven can get, in so little time :)  Its pretty awesome.

PS. Almost forgot to mention a BIG Thanks to Peter (Pete-zza) as well above, for such a nice thread on his translation of JerryMac dough. Thanks Peter.

Chris

Offline sourdough girl

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 664
  • Location: Marysville, WA
  • First the bread, NOW the pizza dough!
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #173 on: January 16, 2009, 02:41:11 PM »
Chris and PNW,

I've been away from the forum for a while due to some health issues, but am doing better and am itchy to get back into the pizza-making fray!

Chris, I started out with Jerry's recipe with the honey, but the last batch of pizzas I made (which was several months ago), I left the honey out and decided it was better that way.  Using honey, if I stayed at ~ 700o F, there was no problem, but if I went over 750o, the pizzas would start to burn too quickly and were a little too dark for my taste.  Leaving the honey out helped and also removed that hint of sweetness from the crust, which, in my opinion, was even better.  I have found that I prefer baking at the higher temp, so the honey is gone permanently.  I think leaving it out would probably solve your problem.

I have also experienced your sticking problem and discovered that the pizza stuck where the crust was too thin.  With the high heat, the thin spots burned through and allowed the sauce to hit the stone, causing it to stick.  By making sure that the crust was uniform and a tiny bit thicker, the problem disappeared.  There is a happy medium between thick and thin... too thick can cause the pizza to get caught in the oven due to the tremendous oven spring.  I keep my dough balls right around 7 oz each, which works out perfectly.

Hope that helps...

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline WestCountry

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 151
Re: 2Stone high temperature ovens
« Reply #174 on: January 16, 2009, 03:03:12 PM »
Thanks SD Girl,

I am definitely going to give this another shot without the honey (since I like to have a one-day recipe in my repertoire), plus it will be a neat experiment to have tried it each way (one with honey & one without). I will report back.

Your observation also on the thickness of crust is really appreciated. I will watch for that and try to keep uniform. I notice sometimes I do not get a consistent & smooth dough no matter which recipe I follow (for example it might have really thin spots like "windowpane test" thin), this is another area I must investigate and work on as well.

Glad to see you back in the forum!
Chris