Author Topic: 2Stone high temperature ovens (Read 40636 times)

MWTC · « **Reply #160 on:** September 03, 2008, 12:17:33 AM »

Willard,

Do you think the air temperature that is achieved during the warm-up period reaches a plateau and stays there or is it a continual upward climb? I understand that the stone is a continual climb to the point where it's to hot, but what about the air flowing out of the front? A plateau or continual upward climb just like the stone?

I'm thinking the gas flow adjustment, adjusts the gas to a chosen constant rate, and realize that turning it upward will change the area of a plateau if thats possible.

What do you think?

MWTC

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #161 on:** September 03, 2008, 09:30:54 AM »

Willard:

Well, after over 2 months and various family issues I finally got my pictures of my second attempt at using the 2-stone on my new gas grill. BTW, your tips on improving the temperature were right on. Removing the heat shields helped a lot! I also added a little more flour (about 1/8 cup) to the dough to make it less moist.

I do not have access currently to the proper ingredients for a neopolitan pizza, like caputo 00 flour, so I made a more NY style pizza using the JerryMac recipe. For cheese, I used a blend of mozz, cheddar, and provolone. I forget which sauce recipe I used. For toppings, one was a tomato, basil and steak, and the other had ham/Canadian bacon plus mushrooms.

You can see my set up down below and the results down below. Graci and danke!

Bistro · « **Reply #162 on:** September 06, 2008, 04:20:06 PM »

I'm looking forward to getting the information on the commercial use after I have spent four hours reading the entire thread again. Last year you were just getting started with this now it sounds like you have perfected the stone. I look forward to speaking with you soon.

2stone · « **Reply #163 on:** September 07, 2008, 04:55:27 PM »

MWTC

I think both the top stone and the bottom take time to heat up and when they reach the desired peak can hold the heat for some time before it finally dissipates. The air itself can almost be turned on and off at will and can be controlled almost instantly. For example: if the top is done and the bottom still needs more time you can get that by shutting off the oven completely and the bottom will continue baking from the residual heat stored up in the stone. Though there is still some baking continuing from the radiant top it is nothing compared to the air, which is the most flexible and controllable element in the entire process.

Mad Ernie,

Your pies look great...I like Caputo 00 but otherwise after trying out tons of different flours I think KA AP is one of my favorites that can be gotten locally and really makes a great tasting crust.

Both my desktop and laptop were on the verge of collapse, so I have just gone through a major upgrade from XP to Vista (I can see why people complain) I'm ready to make some more Pizza!

Bistro,

It has been a year now and we have made several improvements. The Pizza Pro has gotten several new improvements and has become one of our best selling ovens for both commercial and residential use.

Regards,
Willard

Here is the latest
rendition of the Pizza Pro.

Fingerstyle · « **Reply #164 on:** September 08, 2008, 10:09:01 AM »

Quote from: 2stone on September 07, 2008, 04:55:27 PM

It has been a year now and we have made several improvements. The Pizza Pro has gotten several new improvements and has become one of our best selling ovens for both commercial and residential use.
...
Here is the latest rendition of the Pizza Pro.

Bravo Willard!

Are there pictures or a description of how your new "turbo top" compares to the fibrament top stone?

Thanks,

Vic

2stone · « **Reply #165 on:** September 10, 2008, 08:56:56 AM »

Hi Vic

There is substantially more mass, but it's still is able to heat up faster. The higher mass reduces the recovery time and simulates a Wood Fired Brick Oven more.

Willard

TikiGod · « **Reply #166 on:** September 19, 2008, 11:52:12 PM »

Hey everybody,
I've been out of town for a while, but here is last week's attempt. 850 deck temp 2:15ish cook time.
Jamie

TikiGod · « **Reply #167 on:** September 19, 2008, 11:57:27 PM »

And tonight's....... 775 deck temp 2:30ish cook time....I think I like the 750 - 800 temps the best so far. Great flavor...everything cooks well, and tender crispy crust. I might try 00 flour and higher temps, but these results are pretty tasty!

Willard! Best! Accessory! for-my-grill! Ever!
Jamie

TikiGod · « **Reply #168 on:** September 20, 2008, 12:01:27 AM »

Hey Willard,
Let me do some research on the beer yeast for baking and I'll get back to the group. As far as I know, from the brewing end of things, the two best known yeasts available to home bakers originated in breweries in two famous mid-western towns.......
Jamie

2stone · « **Reply #169 on:** October 07, 2008, 11:31:42 AM »

Sounds good Jamie,
The pies look great!

Lately I have been doing some experimenting, trying to get more control over the cheese and crust outcomes.
The 2stage bake works pretty well and offers several advantages especially when you are using "extreme heat"

Picture#1
The onions are piled on high enough that normally this would help lead to a wet soggy crust. The pie is baked this way for the first half so the sauce and the toppings get unimpeded heat and airflow allowing much of the moisture to burn off before the cheese is applied.

Picture#2
Halfway through the bake it is pulled out onto the rack and while the cheese is being applied the bottom is able to breath and let off some of the moisture that was trapped while it was on the stone. this takes no more than 10- 15 seconds and I do it when I can see that the crust has fully risen and has developed its final form with a reasonable amount of structure to it. The cheese is applied more sparingly than normal, and since the top is already heated it begins to melt immediately. The cheese being used is a standard grade provolone mozz low moisture skim mix that is shredded. Most shredded cheeses from your local supermarket turn out well this way.

Picture#3
As you can see the crust is now nice and charred and the cheese is melted and browned to perfection. There is no oily separation that you would normally get from this type of cheese in a full bake. This allows for full control of the cheese melting/baking and you can dial it up or down depending on when you apply it. This allows you to get a similar finished "cheese consistency" that you would normally get from a high quality fresh mozz at many times the price. The finished pie is then pulled off onto the rack where it is allowed to dry out again and cool down for 15-20 seconds.

The front rack will soon be available as an add on to all the ovens, and hopefully I will have one that can be retrofitted for those who already have a 2stone oven.

Willard

WestCountry · « **Reply #170 on:** January 16, 2009, 11:55:05 AM »

Hey All,

I recently purchased the 2stone inferno oven. I LOVE this new oven, and Willard has been extremely HELPFUL with any oven and pizza question I have been having (Thanks Willard!!). I decided to give him a break (from me) and throw out some questions here to the forum. I am still in the stage of getting used to the oven - as I have only fired it up 4 times so far, and have been having a blast experimenting with various dough recipes to figure out which I like the best.

Yesterday I tried JerryMac 1-day recipe at high heat ...actually Pete-zza's translation of that recipe:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=db484a93354b5dda3f7db59b0c9b7869&topic=6515.msg55855#msg55855).

In the past, I have had GREAT success with this recipe several times in my home 550 degree oven (Thanks Jerry!). Yesterday I tried that recipe with 2 smaller dough balls 250 grams each (KABF) at 750 and 650 degrees in the 2stone. They looked perfect on top, but the bottoms were too burned and charred (where the char/burn was kinda sticking to the stone - to the point I had to really use a metal spatula to un-stick it from the stone.).

I probably cooked them for 2-3 minutes (?) ....but to be honest, I did not time them.

1) I am wondering if it was the honey that I included into the dough that might have caused the severe char/burn on the bottom? The interesting thing is I am pretty sure (from other threads) that SD Girl uses JerryMac recipe with the sugar or honey and does not have that happen.

2) Also wondering what is causing the dough to stick to stone while cooking? Could that be the sugar in dough burning onto the stone or maybe the higher hydration/wetness causing it to stick. (I really notice the sticking where the burnt/char points of contact are.)

I took some photo's but will need to get them uploaded here hopefully soon.

I am thinking as a next step, to try JerryMac recipe again (at high-heat), but perhaps leave out the honey/sugar. Again thanks for the support, you all are awesome, and I am so glad to be a part of things here.

Chris

Pizza_Not_War · « **Reply #171 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:06:26 PM »

Quote from: WestCountry on January 16, 2009, 11:55:05 AM

1) I am wondering if it was the honey that I included into the dough that might have caused the severe char/burn on the bottom? The interesting thing is I am pretty sure (from other threads) that SD Girl uses JerryMac recipe with the sugar or honey and does not have that happen.

2) Also wondering what is causing the dough to stick to stone while cooking? Could that be the sugar in dough burning onto the stone or maybe the higher hydration/wetness causing it to stick. (I really notice the sticking where the burnt/char points of contact are.)

You lucky devil ! I would love to have the inferno instead of my 2stone grill. I only use dough that is flour, water, salt & yeast (sourdough). 00 flours, Caputo or San Felice and recently have been moving back to KA all purpose which my family seems to prefer as it is light and airy but has a browner crisper feel to it. I can go with either one. I would not be using sugar or honey and would stick to high heat recipes only. The longer 24 hour room temperature ferment works very well with the 2stone high heat.

My dough has never stuck to the stone. Good luck with it and enjoy!

PNW

WestCountry · « **Reply #172 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:38:39 PM »

Thanks PNW. Yea- I think it may be the sugar/honey. I tried a varasano style recipe and it didn't have that problem with burn or sticking. I need to keep experimenting.

I can't believe how HOT this oven can get, in so little time

Its pretty awesome.

PS. Almost forgot to mention a BIG Thanks to Peter (Pete-zza) as well above, for such a nice thread on his translation of JerryMac dough. Thanks Peter.

Chris

sourdough girl · « **Reply #173 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:41:11 PM »

Chris and PNW,

I've been away from the forum for a while due to some health issues, but am doing better and am itchy to get back into the pizza-making fray!

Chris, I started out with Jerry's recipe with the honey, but the last batch of pizzas I made (which was several months ago), I left the honey out and decided it was better that way. Using honey, if I stayed at ~ 700^o F, there was no problem, but if I went over 750^o, the pizzas would start to burn too quickly and were a little too dark for my taste. Leaving the honey out helped and also removed that hint of sweetness from the crust, which, in my opinion, was even better. I have found that I prefer baking at the higher temp, so the honey is gone permanently. I think leaving it out would probably solve your problem.

I have also experienced your sticking problem and discovered that the pizza stuck where the crust was too thin. With the high heat, the thin spots burned through and allowed the sauce to hit the stone, causing it to stick. By making sure that the crust was uniform and a tiny bit thicker, the problem disappeared. There is a happy medium between thick and thin... too thick can cause the pizza to get caught in the oven due to the tremendous oven spring. I keep my dough balls right around 7 oz each, which works out perfectly.

Hope that helps...

~sd

WestCountry · « **Reply #174 on:** January 16, 2009, 03:03:12 PM »

Thanks SD Girl,

I am definitely going to give this another shot without the honey (since I like to have a one-day recipe in my repertoire), plus it will be a neat experiment to have tried it each way (one with honey & one without). I will report back.

Your observation also on the thickness of crust is really appreciated. I will watch for that and try to keep uniform. I notice sometimes I do not get a consistent & smooth dough no matter which recipe I follow (for example it might have really thin spots like "windowpane test" thin), this is another area I must investigate and work on as well.

Glad to see you back in the forum!
Chris

WestCountry · « **Reply #175 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:29:56 PM »

Hi,

I gave JerryMac recipe another round, (Peter's translation of it in this thread): http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg66562.html#msg66562

This time I did not use the honey, it came out REALLY good with high heat

I'll just put one photo here, but see link above for more details, photos, and awesome topping combinations!

Thanks All!!
Chris

WestCountry · « **Reply #176 on:** January 23, 2009, 02:00:12 PM »

My first Caputo 00:

I have wanted to try my hand at Caputo 00 for a long time. My shipment arrived yesterday from Pennsylvania Macaroni Company (www.pennmac.com) and I put together dough as follows based on recipe from the Forno Bravo site, with my own mistakes/changes:

Caputo 00     100%    500g
Water      65%    325g
Celtic sea salt      3 tsp
IDY         ½ tsp

This yielded total of 817g, which I divided into three 272g balls.

I did a basic mix of all ingredients with about 70% of flour, then 30 minute autolyse.
Afterwards, I combined rest of flour and kneaded in Kitchen Aid for about 5 minutes. Then measured into three dough balls, and put into plastic container (very little oil on bottom) and into fridge.

Here’s the first dough I cooked last night after 7-hour cold rise, then 1 hour to room temperature. I cooked it on 2Stone Inferno at 900-1000 degrees. It took 1 minute 10 seconds to cook. This 272g ball made a nice 11-inch pie with pepperoni and fresh garlic, mozz and cilantro.

Results were a tasty pie – nice char on cornicione, and bottom too (without being burned). Inside had lots of big bubbles and chewy texture, and not soupy.

I have two more of these dough balls in the fridge which I will make probably tomorrow night, which will be around an 56 hour cold rise….I am excited to see how they turn out (and the difference with longer cold rise).

If anyone wants more details, or has better recipe than above using Caputo and IDY, please let me know, as I am trying to develop more ability with this flour / IDY combination.

-Chris

2stone · « **Reply #177 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:56:05 PM »

Marmalade Margherita

Thought I'd try out this combo, and was pleasantly
surprised..... One of the better tasting pies so far.

Crust was KABF + FGWW with a 3 day cold rise.

regards,
Willard

speedy · « **Reply #178 on:** March 28, 2009, 07:01:46 PM »

I got the 2stone pizza grill to use with my weber genesis and couldn't be happier. It adds another dimension to my pizza making and am very happy with it. I included a picture of a std Lehman dough 58% hydration. Cali gold moz, Boars Head pepperoni, and Red Nov sauce.

I do have some questions that Willard or others may be able to help with.

1) My last pie I accidentally punctured and cheese went through to the stone. What is the best method to clean this up?

2) Temp control, when I bake multiple pies by the third one the bottoms are burning fast. Is there a way to control the temp in between pies in order to maintain around a specific temp. For an individual pie I have been heating up till the stone gets to 630 with the top stone 580-600. cut the burners back to about half power and then make and dress the pizza. Then the temp is usually around 650 which is nice. But when doing lots of pies i can't get the temp to stay in that range.

3) When I cook at higher temps 750-800. The pie is cool when I take it out and eat it. Can't figure it out, pizza comes out piping hot , but when I eat it the cheese is just luke warm no chance of burning the roof of my mouth.

4) Is there a way to stretch the dough so it holds the size. When I stretch out the dough and put it on a screen it holds it size. But if I put it on a peel to put directly on the stone is starts shrinking up. I have had a 14 inch dough end up being less than 10inches after baking.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-Speedy

Matthew · « **Reply #179 on:** March 28, 2009, 07:16:51 PM »

Quote from: speedy on March 28, 2009, 07:01:46 PM

I got the 2stone pizza grill to use with my weber genesis and couldn't be happier. It adds another dimension to my pizza making and am very happy with it. I included a picture of a std Lehman dough 58% hydration. Cali gold moz, Boars Head pepperoni, and Red Nov sauce.

I do have some questions that Willard or others may be able to help with.

1) My last pie I accidentally punctured and cheese went through to the stone. What is the best method to clean this up?

2) Temp control, when I bake multiple pies by the third one the bottoms are burning fast. Is there a way to control the temp in between pies in order to maintain around a specific temp. For an individual pie I have been heating up till the stone gets to 630 with the top stone 580-600. cut the burners back to about half power and then make and dress the pizza. Then the temp is usually around 650 which is nice. But when doing lots of pies i can't get the temp to stay in that range.

3) When I cook at higher temps 750-800. The pie is cool when I take it out and eat it. Can't figure it out, pizza comes out piping hot , but when I eat it the cheese is just luke warm no chance of burning the roof of my mouth.

4) Is there a way to stretch the dough so it holds the size. When I stretch out the dough and put it on a screen it holds it size. But if I put it on a peel to put directly on the stone is starts shrinking up. I have had a 14 inch dough end up being less than 10inches after baking.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-Speedy

I use the Chris Bianco method, form the disc on the peel, dress it completely & then pull the sides & top & bottom so that the pie is @ the edge of the peel.

Matt