Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 211662 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #680 on: December 14, 2013, 09:27:33 PM »
The pizza maker at my local PJ's was very fast in opening a dough ball into a skin.

Norma,

If you want to see fast, see the PJ worker in the YouTube video in Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58196.html#msg58196 . It looks like both workers were trained the same way but separated by about five years. Even their outfits, including the PJ shirts and slacks, are similar.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #681 on: December 14, 2013, 10:15:33 PM »
Norma,

If you want to see fast, see the PJ worker in the YouTube video in Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58196.html#msg58196 . It looks like both workers were trained the same way but separated by about five years. Even their outfits, including the PJ shirts and slacks, are similar.

Peter


Peter,

Thank you for referencing the video of the PJ worker and how fast he was.  I never watched that video before.  I agree it looks like both workers were trained the same way and even their outfits were similar. 

It looks like that PJ worker has some success in opening PJ's dough balls with sticking his tongue out some of the time.  I might have to try sticking my tongue out to see if it helps me open dough balls faster because I am sure not as fast as he is.

Maybe I have to purchase one of those kind of docking tools too, or ask Santa for one. 

Norma
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #682 on: December 14, 2013, 11:18:00 PM »
If he drools on my pizza I'm gonna be mad!  Jus kidding, I tried them and will never waste money on one of those rubber band pies again.   ;)
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #683 on: December 15, 2013, 10:46:02 AM »
If he drools on my pizza I'm gonna be mad!  Jus kidding, I tried them and will never waste money on one of those rubber band pies again.   ;)
Bob,

I have heard similar complaints from others but that hasn't deterred some of our members from making some pretty decent looking PJ clones, as evidenced below. And I am sure that other members have achieved similar results but were too bashful to post them or they ate the pizzas before they could get their cameras out.

Peter

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #684 on: December 15, 2013, 11:13:53 AM »
Bob,

I have heard similar complaints from others but that hasn't deterred some of our members from making some pretty decent looking PJ clones, as evidenced below. And I am sure that other members have achieved similar results but were too bashful to post them or they ate the pizzas before they could get their cameras out.

Peter
Oh I've seen the work some of the members here have posted and it is faaaantastic!  :chef:
And I know I'd be happy with anyone of those "clones" you just posted.....sometimes the imitator is better than the originator.  :chef:
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Offline Mullered

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #685 on: December 17, 2013, 09:18:08 AM »
Pete, you state you cook your pizza on the lowest shelf ..... presumably your oven produces heat from the bottom and this helps colour the underside of the pizza?  In the UK our ovens typically only go up to 500*f max and the heat generally comes from a gas flame at the rear or electrical heating element on the top.  This means that the bottom of the oven is the coolest part.  Because of this I have instead been using the highest possible position in my oven as that is the hottest part however im struggling to get colour on the bottom of my pie, Ive also tried the middle shelf with similar results even on a stone that has been heated on the highest gas mark for 1.5h+.  Im going to try a screen to see if I get better results but Im unsure whether I should place it lower down to allow for a longer cooking time or whether to keep it on the top shelf.  Please could you advise.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #686 on: December 17, 2013, 09:35:26 AM »
Pete, you state you cook your pizza on the lowest shelf ..... presumably your oven produces heat from the bottom and this helps colour the underside of the pizza?  In the UK our ovens typically only go up to 500*f max and the heat generally comes from a gas flame at the rear or electrical heating element on the top.  This means that the bottom of the oven is the coolest part.  Because of this I have instead been using the highest possible position in my oven as that is the hottest part however im struggling to get colour on the bottom of my pie, Ive also tried the middle shelf with similar results even on a stone that has been heated on the highest gas mark for 1.5h+.  Im going to try a screen to see if I get better results but Im unsure whether I should place it lower down to allow for a longer cooking time or whether to keep it on the top shelf.  Please could you advise.
Mullered,

I have an electric oven and have had little experience using a gas oven (usually at a friend's place), and I know very little about ovens in the UK. However, can you tell me whether there is a source of heat at the bottom of the oven and, if so, what that source is?

If there is a heat source at the bottom of the oven, and you are using a screen, I think I would start the pizza at the bottom part of the oven and move it to the top part of the oven (to get more top crust coloration and more complete top bake) when the bottom crust has the desired degree of coloration.

Peter

Offline Mullered

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #687 on: December 17, 2013, 11:07:06 AM »
the heat source is a gas flame intake at the rear back side, the heat rises up the back to the top of the oven to the top, making the top the hottest part.  No heat actually comes from the bottom surface and it tends to be quite a bit cooler than the top.  I suspect that as I struggle to get underside colour with a stone then I am also going to struggle with a screen

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #688 on: December 17, 2013, 11:37:22 AM »
the heat source is a gas flame intake at the rear back side, the heat rises up the back to the top of the oven to the top, making the top the hottest part.  No heat actually comes from the bottom surface and it tends to be quite a bit cooler than the top.  I suspect that as I struggle to get underside colour with a stone then I am also going to struggle with a screen
Mullered,

Do you think there is any way to deflect the heat from the rear back side of your oven to the bottom of the rack on which you would place the screen? It might be a temporary deflection--that is, only until the bottom gets the desired degree of crust coloration. The deflection might be aluminum foil placed toward the rear back of the oven and then be removed to allow the normal heat to go to the top of the oven, where the top bake would be completed.

Peter

Offline Mullered

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #689 on: December 17, 2013, 12:11:45 PM »
I think it would be difficult without setting fire to the foil, I would have to have a  think about that.  Perhaps a thin metal baking tray pushed all the way to the back of the oven placed low down so that its cutting of the flame. However I would be concerned about the safty factors of this method but its a possibility.  My other option is to purchase a specialized pizza cooking device such as the one in the link below, do you have any knowledge regarding such contraptions?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002VA4CDI/?tag=pizzamaking-20
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 08:30:47 PM by Steve »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #690 on: December 17, 2013, 01:38:47 PM »
My other option is to purchase a specialized pizza cooking device such as the one in the link below, do you have any knowledge regarding such contraptions?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002VA4CDI/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Mullered,

Several years ago, I purchased and experimented with a pizza oven called the Deni 2300. You can see some of the results of my experiments using that oven in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2462.msg21445.html#msg21445. Arguably, it is a device that is similar to the G3 Ferrari pizza oven you referenced but unless one modifies either of these ovens, or any other ovens like those, it is unlikely that highly satisfactory results will be achieved. To date, the best results seem to have been achieved by modifying a G3 Ferrari oven. If you do an Advanced forum search using the terms "G3 Ferrari" (without the quotes), you will get over a hundred hits. One of the most popular threads at the moment on modifying and using the G3 Ferrari unit is this one: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19732.msg193478.html#msg193478.

You should also keep in mind that ovens like the Deni 2300 and the G3 Ferrari are size limited. I can't speak for the G3 Ferrari, but for the Deni 2300, the largest recommended size is 11" (about 28 cm). It would be easy to modify a Papa John's clone formulation for that size but I doubt that you would get a PJ clone that you would be very happy with. Whether the results would be better using a modded G3 Ferrari oven is an open question. In my case, I decided not to mod the Deni 2300.

Peter

Offline Mullered

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #691 on: December 17, 2013, 02:22:18 PM »
Thank you Pete

I see the satisfaction with such devices varies however it seems comparisons are made against your US ovens which appear superior to our UK counterparts having underneath convection and higher temps.  Im in the process of hinting Christmas presents towards my better half, and one of these devices is within the seasonal price range. I  think I (she) may take the plunge as attempts with our  conventional ovens are so unsatisfactory.  I've only skimmed over the modification threads but as a computer builder by trade I look forward to exploring those avenues if initial results are not satisfactory .....many thanks for your pointers Pete :)

Offline Leonard

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #692 on: December 27, 2013, 06:38:48 AM »
I am quite happy with one of those contraptions, I have a  bestron Dld9016 and got great results.
Had a few problems at start because it was getting better cooked in one place of the oven and less in another part, but, I now have a system that ensures even cooking.
I preheat the oven as intructions say and then put the pizza for 3 minutes and then rotate the pizza and bake for another 3-4 minutes.
One handle on the pizza stone is taken of so I can rotate the pizza without raising the lid, moving the pizza stone.
There is on problem, it is a small oven, it can feed one person but if you make for a party then you need a bigger oven.
LE
Pete-zza's oven (  Deni 2300 ) seems it doesn't use a stone, might be why results weren't so good.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 06:42:14 AM by Leonard »

Offline Mullered

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #693 on: December 27, 2013, 11:45:00 AM »
I am quite happy with one of those contraptions, I have a  bestron Dld9016 and got great results.
Had a few problems at start because it was getting better cooked in one place of the oven and less in another part, but, I now have a system that ensures even cooking.
I preheat the oven as intructions say and then put the pizza for 3 minutes and then rotate the pizza and bake for another 3-4 minutes.
One handle on the pizza stone is taken of so I can rotate the pizza without raising the lid, moving the pizza stone.
There is on problem, it is a small oven, it can feed one person but if you make for a party then you need a bigger oven.
LE
Pete-zza's oven (  Deni 2300 ) seems it doesn't use a stone, might be why results weren't so good.

My ferrari G3 should arrive my 1 pm tomorrow and Im really looking forward to trying it out.  I only cook 12" pies at a time so it should be big enough  Ive just knocked up a 24h room temp dough using KABF which I had shipped from the states.  This is my first time using KABF and i have to say initial impressions are that handles very differently to the 'strong' and 'very strong' bread flours we have in the UK.  Its much more .... I guess rubbery is the only way I can put it.  Feels like it contains more gluten despite being lower protein that the Alinson VSBF (14%).  One thing that has really been missing from my previous atempts is chewyness.  Ive got a feeling going by the uncooked dough texture that my KABF pie is going to have that all important PJ chew.  Its making me very hungry just typing about it LOL  :chef:




Offline Leonard

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #694 on: December 28, 2013, 11:32:12 AM »
Mullered, don't forget, oven needs to be preheated, put the pizza in a super hot oven, I get mine very very hot and cook at the highest oven setting.
Also, check the manual of the oven, stone needs to be prepared before first use, I did somrthing to mine the first time but I don't remember what.
Good luck and remember, get that stone blazing hot and you can't mess up, also rotate the pizza, G3 has the same problem.

Offline Mullered

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #695 on: December 28, 2013, 06:43:18 PM »
oops .... I may have missed the prepping of the stone (still not sure what that is) but otherwise I'm having fun playing with it.  I found my 12" PJ clone a little large for this machine, not just in diameter but thickness as well.  I'm not giving up on getting a thicker pizza to work in the G3 but the technique will require some experimentation.  I did however have success with an emergency 2 hour NY style pie, in fact I think it's the best pie I've ever made.  It was just so thin and chewy and cooked to perfection.  Baring in mind that was an emergency version!  This has ignited an interest in NY style pies now and I have a 12 hour poolish dough in preparation now for tomorrow.  I will come back to the PJ clone at some point.  I think one possible change that may improve the PJ clone in the G3 will be reducing the thickness factor to say .12 or there abouts.  I know as I move away from the PJ signature thickness it essentially no longer remains a clone as such but it will be interesting to see the results none the less.

Thanks for the tips Leonard, its good to know others are in the same boat in terms of baking solutions. BTW with my last bake to day I heated the G3 on 2.5 then switched it to 3 as the pie went in to keep the heating element on for longer, this seemed to work really well with my NY pie.  For a thicker PJ clone I might try a similar technique but instead heat the oven on 2 then switch to 2.5 for the rest of the bake.  Ill post the results here ( and hopefully finally some pictures when I produce something I'm happy with ) :)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 06:44:55 PM by Mullered »

Offline tony_mcbrice

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #696 on: December 28, 2013, 09:01:31 PM »
Hi Peter.
Thanks for this very interesting and well documented post.
I have a question for you about the cooking of this pizza. It's possible to bake it in a wood fired oven at high temp as Neapolitan pizza?
Thanks in advance
Tony Mc Brice

Offline Mullered

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #697 on: December 29, 2013, 06:52:13 AM »
Hi Peter.
Thanks for this very interesting and well documented post.
I have a question for you about the cooking of this pizza. It's possible to bake it in a wood fired oven at high temp as Neapolitan pizza?
Thanks in advance
Tony Mc Brice

Pete will no doubt give you a more thorough answer but I would say you will at least need to lower if not completely omit the sugar to prevent the crust from burning at such high temps

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #698 on: December 30, 2013, 10:14:14 AM »
Hi Peter.
Thanks for this very interesting and well documented post.
I have a question for you about the cooking of this pizza. It's possible to bake it in a wood fired oven at high temp as Neapolitan pizza?
Thanks in advance
Tony Mc Brice
Tony.

What Mullered told you is what I would have told you. From time to time, we have had members who have baked a PJ clone pizza on a preheated pizza stone, presumably at a stone temperature of around 500 degrees F, and in a standard home oven, but it was usually necessary to closely monitor the bottom crust development so that the bottom crust did not turn excessively brown before the rest of the pizza was baked. This problem can be especially aggravated if there is a lot of cheese and/or toppings on the pizza.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #699 on: January 01, 2014, 01:31:07 PM »
I have had the sign out at market that I soon would be offering the chocolate chip cookies for awhile.  Customers and standholders that did try the PJ clone chocolate chip cookies were asking me when I would make them again.  Life got in the way of me experimenting more to see if I could do that fairly fast. 

I decided this morning to bake 5 chocolate chip cookies in my home oven on the pizza stone.  The first cookie went well but I was in too much of a hurry and did not let the cookie cool enough.  When I went to flip the cookie out of the PJ aluminum pan I made a mess.  I then decided to try the other aluminum pans I had purchased at the webrestuarant store because I only have two PJ aluminum pans.  They are a little it larger than the PJ aluminum pans and I decided to use less chocolate chip cookie dough in those pans to see what would happen.  The second bake in the PJ aluminum pan went good and the weight of the cookie dough was what I used before.  The following bakes in the webrestuarant aluminum pans went good too and less cookie dough was used.  I used different temperatures in my home oven and that went well too. 

I think the same method might work out at market in using different chocolate chip cookie dough weights and also using the webrestuarant aluminum pans.  I could arrive a little earlier at market and bake as many chocolate chip cookies that I think I might need before I start baking pizzas if all goes well.

My mother is coming over later today for dinner.  I will let her taste some of the chocolate chip cookies to get her opinion.

Norma
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