Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 211737 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #700 on: January 01, 2014, 01:34:06 PM »
Norma
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Offline JasonT

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #701 on: January 17, 2014, 05:25:07 PM »
Hey Pete,

I asked this quite some time ago, but I can't find your old reply. If I wanted to make a batch of your PJ clone (page 2 reply 20), how would I go about freezing it?

I recall you saying the only difference was how much yeast I added and the dough could stay in the freezer for two weeks?

How much yeast would I need to add for the frozen batch, exactly?

Thx Pete.

Jason

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #702 on: January 17, 2014, 06:11:31 PM »
Jason,

I have discussed the matter of making frozen Papa John's clone doughs, and possible effects of doing that, on a few occasions in this thread. See, for example, Reply 391 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg230001/topicseen.html#msg230001, Reply 336 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg160800/topicseen.html#msg160800 and Reply 198 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg104820/topicseen.html#msg104820.

In general, when I know in advance that I want to make a frozen dough, I make the necessary changes up front, rather than letting the regular dough ferment for a few days and then freeze it. So, if you are using the PJ clone dough formulation at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217, I would double the amount of yeast, to 0.56%, and see how that works out. And I would follow the defrost protocol as discussed in Reply 391 referenced above.

If you decide to make a frozen PJ clone dough, please let us know of your results.

Peter

Offline JasonT

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #703 on: January 17, 2014, 06:43:49 PM »
Jason,

I have discussed the matter of making frozen Papa John's clone doughs, and possible effects of doing that, on a few occasions in this thread. See, for example, Reply 391 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg230001/topicseen.html#msg230001, Reply 336 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg160800/topicseen.html#msg160800 and Reply 198 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg104820/topicseen.html#msg104820.

In general, when I know in advance that I want to make a frozen dough, I make the necessary changes up front, rather than letting the regular dough ferment for a few days and then freeze it. So, if you are using the PJ clone dough formulation at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217, I would double the amount of yeast, to 0.56%, and see how that works out. And I would follow the defrost protocol as discussed in Reply 391 referenced above.

If you decide to make a frozen PJ clone dough, please let us know of your results.

Peter


Pete,

Thx for the fast reply.

Ok so basically:

- Double the yeast
- put the doughball directly into the freezer
- put the dough into the fridge 24 hrs before you plan to use it
- remove a couple hrs before you plan to use it to reach room temp

Did I miss anything? Also, would it be better to put it from freezer to fridge at 48 hrs instead of 24 so it has more time to thaw or no?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #704 on: January 17, 2014, 07:24:54 PM »
Ok so basically:

- Double the yeast
- put the doughball directly into the freezer
- put the dough into the fridge 24 hrs before you plan to use it
- remove a couple hrs before you plan to use it to reach room temp

Did I miss anything? Also, would it be better to put it from freezer to fridge at 48 hrs instead of 24 so it has more time to thaw or no?
Jason,

You have it right. As for when to move the dough from freezer to refrigerator to defrost, that can take place at about any time within, say, a couple of weeks. But once you move the dough from the freezer to the refrigerator, you don't want to have the dough defrost for more than two days. Otherwise, the dough might overferment because of the large amount of yeast. Most professionals use one day of defrost.

Peter

Offline JasonT

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #705 on: January 17, 2014, 09:34:39 PM »
Jason,

You have it right. As for when to move the dough from freezer to refrigerator to defrost, that can take place at about any time within, say, a couple of weeks. But once you move the dough from the freezer to the refrigerator, you don't want to have the dough defrost for more than two days. Otherwise, the dough might overferment because of the large amount of yeast. Most professionals use one day of defrost.

Peter

Pete,

I'll be using the dough within 7-10 days after freezing in most cases. I'll report back how it tastes.

Thx for the help again!

Jason

Offline philipmason

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #706 on: March 18, 2014, 02:23:36 PM »
I have tried the recipe from Pete-za's. The  latest one:

Flour* (100%):
Water (56%):
IDY (0.28%):
Salt (1.9%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (5.55%):
Sugar (5.89%):
Total (169.62%):
14" pizza with a corresponding thickness factor of 0.12992; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Good. However, after eating several of the real Papa John's, I feel that the crust has more sugar. Much more. Also, seems to have more toughness, which I assume is a higher gluten content. I use bread flour
(KA).

So I added some gluten in place of some flour to get a 14% protein flour equivalent.

Little more tough, but not near Papa's. Or maybe the Gluten (KA) is not 100% protein, or Papa John's is even higher than 13 to 14% protein.

Is Papa Johns putting something else in the dough to give it flavor?

Also, I noticed Pete-za altered his original formula, which increases the sugar, and decreases the oil,  and eventually reached an "effective hydration" of less than 62%, which is the saturation level of flour ( I think).

Next time , I will use a 10% sugar formula, and iterate it up or down until I feel I am near the real Papa's taste.

Any comments on sweetness and toughness of dough?

Did not realize I liked Papa John's so much, lol.




Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #707 on: March 19, 2014, 06:07:01 PM »
Philip,

After reading your post and questions, I have the following observations and comments.

First, as I have mentioned before in this thread, the flour that Papa Johnís uses to make its dough is grown and milled especially for them. So, we donít know exactly what that flour comprises in terms of specifications. However, we have a pretty good idea as to what ingredients go into the PJ dough. See, for example, Reply 492 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg260041;topicseen#msg260041. From that post (toward the bottom) you will observe a couple of salient points. The first is that the ingredients lists for the PJ doughs over the years have apparently always contained more sugar than soybean oil. I will have more to say on this later. The second point is that starting at around 2005, PJ started to use wheat starch in its doughs. And the current dough uses more wheat starch than the prior version of the dough. I mention this because the wheat starch may be a factor in the texture and maybe the flavor of the PJ finished crusts. Not having ever worked with wheat starch, I cannot say whether that would have a "sweetness" but I would say no simply because wheat starch does not contain Sugar as a nutrient, as noted, for example, at https://store.nexternal.com/cbfi2000/storefront/wheat-starch-p585.aspx.

Second, I do not believe that PJ has changed its dough formulation in any material way since I last revisited the nutrition data for the PJ products toward the end of 2011. I say this because the nutrition data for the PJ Breadsticks, which are made using the same dough as PJ uses to make its original pizzas, has not changed since the end of 2011. You can see the nutrition data for the current PJ Breadsticks at http://order.papajohns.com/nutrition/2/subMenu.html. What you especially want to note is that the weights of Total Fat (4.5 grams) and Sugar (4 grams) are fairly close to each other. FYI, the Total Fat comes from the soybean oil used in the PJ dough and to a very small degree from the flour, and the Sugar comes from sugar added to the dough and to a very small degree from the flour. In most flours, the amounts of Total Fat and Sugar for a given sample of flour, for example, 100 grams, tend to run neck and neck. I donít know why the Total Fat number is higher than the Sugar number for the Breadstick nutrition data but it could be because of rounding factors. For example, the FDA requires that Total Fat be rounded to the nearest half gram; for the Sugar, the rounding is to the nearest full gram. Also, if the actual numbers for Total Fat and Sugar, which PJ has but we do not, are extrapolated from a single serving to the total number of servings, it is possible that there would be more Sugar than Total Fat by weight. I mention all of this because if you increase the sugar in your PJ test dough to 10%, that would mean that you would have to drastically increase the amount of soybean also so that they are in proper weight relationship to each other. That does not strike me as a credible move. Just increasing the amount of sugar alone would have the effect of making the finished crust more tender, not less so. The same effect would occur if you also increase the amount of soybean oil. The point I am making here is that drastically increasing the amount of sugar and/or soybean oil would not square with the PJ nutrition data.

Third, the PJ clone dough formulation you referenced is for a two-day cold fermented dough. In practice, PJ uses a dough that is intended to be used within a window of about three days to seven or even eight days. The finished crusts using the 3-8 day dough would be different than the crust made using the 2-day version. The reason I came up with the 2-day version is because many people have a hard time successfully making the 3-8 day version. I have made doughs in the past that had no sugar in them and that were fermented for six days or more and I could detect a sweetness in the finished crusts despite the lack of sugar added to the dough. Like PJ, those doughs were held at low temperatures for the entire duration of fermentation. I suppose itís possible that the total Sugar content in the PJ crust made after 3-8 days of cold fermentation has a higher value than the 2-day clone version.

As an aside, the FDA is pushing for companies to indicate how much sucrose, or table sugar, is added to their products, as opposed to total Sugars as are now reported and can include both table sugar and natural sugars as a single number. The FDA is targeting the amount of sucrose used in products so that consumers can more closely relate to that form of sugar than the natural sugars (like maltose, lactose, fructose, etc.). For those of us who engage in reverse engineering and cloning products of others, action by the FDA on its sugar proposal will be a big help.

Peter

Offline JasonT

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #708 on: March 19, 2014, 09:03:44 PM »
Pete,

If I wanted to do a 24 hour rise (make dough Thursday, cook it Friday) how much yeast should I use?

I'll be using the formula in reply #20 as I have perfected that one.

As always, thx Pete

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #709 on: March 20, 2014, 12:27:12 PM »
Pete,

If I wanted to do a 24 hour rise (make dough Thursday, cook it Friday) how much yeast should I use?

I'll be using the formula in reply #20 as I have perfected that one.

Jason,

You can try the one-day cold fermentation PJ clone dough formulation at Reply 31 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60076#msg60076 since that is similar to the formulation as given in Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217 but with more yeast and a few other minor changes.

As an alternative, you can try the updated PJ clone dough formulation as given at Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667 but increase the IDY to 0.40%.

Please let us know how your pizza turns out with whatever formulation you decide to use. In the meantime, can you also tell us how the frozen dough that you mentioned in Reply 705 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg297561#msg297561 turned out?

Peter


Offline dorian345

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #710 on: March 25, 2014, 09:07:11 PM »
Hello! Im new here and I decided to try the emergency 2hr pizza dough recipe. The recipe and the amount worked out amazing as far as the dough, how it raised and the thickness was perfect,  except for one thing :(

I don't know what It is but the dough taste was kinda off as far as flavour.

How much of a difference in taste is the quick rise yeast and the active dry yeast cold slow rise recipe?

I can't quite put my finger on it..also being from Canads we dont have papa johns here so I have no idea what it taste like. I was doing this recipe because from what i read online people say it taste like dominos, as I prefer it. Can someone help me out or explain?  I also noticed that the crust underneath did not crisp up as I thought it would. I have a 14 inch pizza screen

I cooked it at 500 for 8 mins at the bottom rack and moved it up to the top rack on broil for 2 mins.
The bottom of the pizza was limpy and white looking still. I decided to put it back in at 500 for 2 mins on the bottom rack and it helped a tiny bit. I don't know why it didn't crips up the bottom like it should have?

What could I have done wrong or is it just the recipe and I should try a slow rise cold ferment? with active dry yeast and not instant?


Thank you!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #711 on: March 25, 2014, 10:04:54 PM »
dorian345,

What you encountered with the emergency dough was quite normal. Whenever you use a lot of yeast, and the dough ferments very quickly, you can get a crust flavor profile that some might not particularly like. The flavor might be characterized as being "yeasty" but it might also be considered to be an "off" flavor by some. Either of these flavor profiles might not be flawed, just different or not preferred. Usually people will accept this outcome as the price one pays for being able to make a pizza in about two hours.

Whether one uses instant dry yeast (IDY) or active dry yeast (ADY) is largely a matter of personal preference and either can be used for an emergency dough or a cold fermented dough. But there are advantages to using a long cold fermentation for the best crust flavors. For example, during a long cold fermentation, the protease enzymes and acids produced during fermentation attack the protein and gluten structure of the dough. This allows the proteins to be more readily denatured during baking and to produce its own flavor impact. In most cases, people will consider the resulting crust flavors achieved from a long cold fermentation to be an improvement over what one might get from using an emergency dough. If you are interested, you can read more about this facet of flavor enhancement in Tom Lehmann's post at Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23355.msg256544;topicseen#msg256544.

I am also not surprised that the bottom crust was not as crispy as you desired. Unfortunately, a Papa John's crust, either as part of a pizza purchased from Papa John's or a clone of a Papa John's pizza, is not very crispy. Part of the reason is that a Papa John's crust contains a lot of sugar and fat, both of which tenderize the crust. Also, when such a pizza is baked on a pizza screen, the degree of crispiness of the bottom crust will be diminished. Some members get around this problem by baking a PJ clone pizza on a preheated pizza stone. However, when that bake method is used, one must carefully monitor the bottom crust development to be sure that the bottom crust does not prematurely brown or even burn before the rest of the pizza is finished baking, which can happen because of the high sugar levels in the dough.

For your next effort to make a PJ clone pizza, should you decide to make another attempt, you might try the PJ clone dough formulation as set forth at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217. That is one of the most popular PJ clones on the forum even though the dough is only fermented for two days rather than the three to eight days that PJ uses. As an alternative to the PJ clone dough formulation set forth at Reply 20, you might try the updated version as given at Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667 but using the preparation steps set forth in Reply 20.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #712 on: March 28, 2014, 04:15:54 PM »
I am always on the lookout for articles and the like that set forth the lists of ingredients used currently by Papa John's to make its pizzas. Today, while searching for something else, I stumbled upon the following very recent article that confirms what I have reported before on more than a few occasions as being the ingredients used by Papa John's for its pizzas:

http://www.vrg.org/blog/2014/03/12/update-on-papa-johns-vegetarian-and-vegan-menu-options/

What I also found interesting and informative is the Q&A section at the end of the article that deals with concerns of vegetarians and vegans relating to utensils, pans, pizza cutters, etc.

Peter

Offline WarEagle09

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #713 on: March 28, 2014, 07:23:19 PM »
I am always on the lookout for articles and the like that set forth the lists of ingredients used currently by Papa John's to make its pizzas. Today, while searching for something else, I stumbled upon the following very recent article that confirms what I have reported before on more than a few occasions as being the ingredients used by Papa John's for its pizzas:

http://www.vrg.org/blog/2014/03/12/update-on-papa-johns-vegetarian-and-vegan-menu-options/

What I also found interesting and informative is the Q&A section at the end of the article that deals with concerns of vegetarians and vegans relating to utensils, pans, pizza cutters, etc.

Peter


Cheese: Part-skim mozzarella cheese (pasteurized milk, cultures, salt, enzymes [chymax Ė NOT animal derived]), modified food starch [derived from corn], powdered cellulose (added to prevent caking), whey protein concentrate, sodium citrate, sodium propionate (added as a preservative). - See more at: http://www.vrg.org/blog/2014/03/12/update-on-papa-johns-vegetarian-and-vegan-menu-options/#sthash.dyW3Rq80.dpuf

I assume this means that the cheese is delivered in diced form? I did not realize that. While I assume there is considerably less cellulose in the Leprino cheese that PJ's uses versus what is commonly found in the pre-shredded cheeses at the grocery store isle, I thought it was nonetheless significant.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #714 on: March 28, 2014, 07:46:19 PM »
Cheese: Part-skim mozzarella cheese (pasteurized milk, cultures, salt, enzymes [chymax Ė NOT animal derived]), modified food starch [derived from corn], powdered cellulose (added to prevent caking), whey protein concentrate, sodium citrate, sodium propionate (added as a preservative). - See more at: http://www.vrg.org/blog/2014/03/12/update-on-papa-johns-vegetarian-and-vegan-menu-options/#sthash.dyW3Rq80.dpuf

I assume this means that the cheese is delivered in diced form? I did not realize that. While I assume there is considerably less cellulose in the Leprino cheese that PJ's uses versus what is commonly found in the pre-shredded cheeses at the grocery store isle, I thought it was nonetheless significant.

WarEagle09,

Yes, the Leprino's cheese is diced (I believe they sometimes use the term cubed). At one time it was reported that Papa John's was using Leprino's QLC/IQF cheese as described in Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58413#msg58413 .

Peter

Offline dorian345

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #715 on: March 29, 2014, 03:55:08 AM »
dorian345,

What you encountered with the emergency dough was quite normal. Whenever you use a lot of yeast, and the dough ferments very quickly, you can get a crust flavor profile that some might not particularly like. The flavor might be characterized as being "yeasty" but it might also be considered to be an "off" flavor by some. Either of these flavor profiles might not be flawed, just different or not preferred. Usually people will accept this outcome as the price one pays for being able to make a pizza in about two hours.

Whether one uses instant dry yeast (IDY) or active dry yeast (ADY) is largely a matter of personal preference and either can be used for an emergency dough or a cold fermented dough. But there are advantages to using a long cold fermentation for the best crust flavors. For example, during a long cold fermentation, the protease enzymes and acids produced during fermentation attack the protein and gluten structure of the dough. This allows the proteins to be more readily denatured during baking and to produce its own flavor impact. In most cases, people will consider the resulting crust flavors achieved from a long cold fermentation to be an improvement over what one might get from using an emergency dough. If you are interested, you can read more about this facet of flavor enhancement in Tom Lehmann's post at Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23355.msg256544;topicseen#msg256544.

I am also not surprised that the bottom crust was not as crispy as you desired. Unfortunately, a Papa John's crust, either as part of a pizza purchased from Papa John's or a clone of a Papa John's pizza, is not very crispy. Part of the reason is that a Papa John's crust contains a lot of sugar and fat, both of which tenderize the crust. Also, when such a pizza is baked on a pizza screen, the degree of crispiness of the bottom crust will be diminished. Some members get around this problem by baking a PJ clone pizza on a preheated pizza stone. However, when that bake method is used, one must carefully monitor the bottom crust development to be sure that the bottom crust does not prematurely brown or even burn before the rest of the pizza is finished baking, which can happen because of the high sugar levels in the dough.

For your next effort to make a PJ clone pizza, should you decide to make another attempt, you might try the PJ clone dough formulation as set forth at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217. That is one of the most popular PJ clones on the forum even though the dough is only fermented for two days rather than the three to eight days that PJ uses. As an alternative to the PJ clone dough formulation set forth at Reply 20, you might try the updated version as given at Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667 but using the preparation steps set forth in Reply 20.

Peter



I tried the 2 day fermemt and pulled it out and let it warm up at room temp. .the dough did not rise almost nothing and was a huge fail  :( I used the amount of yeast it called for but still did not work well..my yeast is fine ...I did notice the recipe for the 2day ferment used very little yeast. It seems like it needed much more

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #716 on: March 29, 2014, 07:51:14 PM »

I tried the 2 day fermemt and pulled it out and let it warm up at room temp. .the dough did not rise almost nothing and was a huge fail  :( I used the amount of yeast it called for but still did not work well..my yeast is fine ...I did notice the recipe for the 2day ferment used very little yeast. It seems like it needed much more
dorian345,

I'm sorry to hear that you got unsatisfactory results.

Pizza dough is at the mercy of temperatures. Those temperatures include the finished dough temperature (which depends on the temperature of the flour and water, the room temperature at which the dough is made, the frictional temperature of the machine used to make the dough, and the implements used to mix and knead the dough and the related mixer speeds and durations), the temperature of the refrigerator where the dough is held during fermentation, and the room temperature and the duration at which the dough is tempered once it comes out of the refrigerator.

My practice in a home setting using a standard home refrigerator is to aim for a finished dough temperature of around 80-85 degrees F. Normally, I would prefer to keep the amount of yeast constant and try to get the dough to have a finished dough temperature of around 80-85 degrees F, as noted above. However, there are times where the various temperatures mentioned above are lower than normal, as in the dead of winter, and this can sometimes necessitate an increase in the amount of yeast. But even when I do not change the amount of yeast, and the resulting dough does not appear to have risen enough, my practice is to use a longer temper time. That time will depend on the room temperature at which the dough is tempered. In my experience, it is rare not to see the dough expand in volume given sufficient time at room temperature. If that temperature is still too low, as might happen in kitchens in cold climes, then the dough can be put in an oven that has been warmed up slightly and turned off. This is not a method that I have ever found a need to use for any of the PJ clone doughs I have ever made, but, then again, I live in Texas where temperatures are generally higher than most places and, certainly, higher than in Canada where you live.

If you can give me a profile of all of the temperatures that applied to your case where you are in Canada, maybe I can offer some guidance and advice as to how to proceed next should you wish to make another attempt. Please also indicate what kind of dry yeast you used and, if that yeast was ADY, how you used the ADY to make the dough.

Peter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #717 on: March 30, 2014, 12:28:16 AM »
Wow...the amount of information and articulation in just a couple paragraphs.
What a knowledge base this man is.  8)

CB
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #718 on: March 31, 2014, 11:39:49 AM »
Bob,

I would have much preferred that dorian345 succeeded than failed, even though I know that with pizza dough the potential for failure lurks around any corner, even in the hands of skilled members. And when it does occur, I want to know why since that knowledge might help us avoid it next time. In this vein, I went back to Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217, which apparently was the post that dorian345 followed, to see if there was anything I might or could or should have said in that post that would have prevented or minimized the likelihood of failure. Upon rereading Reply 20, which is a very detailed post, nothing jumped out at me as being missing but one thought that occurred to me is that I might have suggested the use of the poppy seed trick as described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html. As it turns out, while I was aware of the poppy seed trick at the time I composed Reply 20, I did not think to suggest its use at that time. But when I looked at succeeding posts, I saw that I did mention its use by the time I reached Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59357#msg59357. That was the first post in the thread where I discussed the use of the poppy seed trick.

One of the benefits of being a Moderator is that I can modify my posts. So, I plan to edit Reply 20, and also Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197, to reference the link to the poppy seed trick. Using that trick might not have avoided or minimized the likelihood of failure but it would have given dorian345 a mechanism for monitoring the expansion of the dough over the course of its fermentation. Many times a dough that has not risen much while in the refrigerator, or did not appear to the naked eye to have risen much, will come to life during the tempering of the dough at room temperature. And, it will be seen that the poppy seeds move apart during that time. The spacing can also be allowed to increase by any desired amount. For example, if one wants to use the dough when it has about doubled in volume, the spacing can be monitored until it increases from one inch to about 1 1/4 inches. The time that it will take to reach that point will, as previously mentioned, depend on the ambient room temperature during the temper stage.

Peter

Offline JasonT

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  • Posts: 33
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #719 on: March 31, 2014, 11:32:07 PM »
Jason,

You can try the one-day cold fermentation PJ clone dough formulation at Reply 31 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60076#msg60076 since that is similar to the formulation as given in Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217 but with more yeast and a few other minor changes.

As an alternative, you can try the updated PJ clone dough formulation as given at Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667 but increase the IDY to 0.40%.

Please let us know how your pizza turns out with whatever formulation you decide to use. In the meantime, can you also tell us how the frozen dough that you mentioned in Reply 705 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg297561#msg297561 turned out?

Peter


Hey Pete,

My family is full of pizza lovers, so two Fridays ago, we had a big pizza party. The legend of my pizza making has grown and everyone wanted to try it. My wife and I ended up making 8 doughs. We used the formulation at the top of page 2 as usual.

We let the dough ferment in the fridge for two days (made it on Wed, cooked the pizza on Friday). Everyone loved the pizza and it was a huge hit. When everyone asked my secrets, I just said I followed the advice of a crazy pizza man named Pete, who loves pizza almost as much as me :)

We had three doughs left over, so we froze them. I had a friend come in this weekend and he wanted to try my pizza and my cousin did as well. We used the frozen doughballs, and one doughball I made a few days before. You honestly couldn't tell which dough was fresh and which one was frozen.

So I can tell everyone for sure that you can keep the dough frozen for at least 16 days with no loss of flavor. Keep in mind I let these doughballs rise for a couple of days before freezing them. So I didn't add any extra yeast.

I'd suggest using a piece of parchment paper, if you freeze the doughball in a ziplock bag like we did. The one doughball we forgot to use parchment paper with was sticking to the bag after it thawed and was a little messy.

Also another tip for anyone using the same formulation: I've found in a few of the ovens I've cooked the pizza that if you push the cook time an extra 30s-min, it gets a fuller, more crispy taste that is unreal.

I've also played around with the sugar amount and have found that 1.5 Tbsp is ideal for my taste.