Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 243083 times)

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Offline SlimTheMan

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #720 on: April 01, 2014, 05:26:43 AM »
I have had the sign out at market that I soon would be offering the chocolate chip cookies for awhile.  Customers and standholders that did try the PJ clone chocolate chip cookies were asking me when I would make them again.  Life got in the way of me experimenting more to see if I could do that fairly fast. 

I decided this morning to bake 5 chocolate chip cookies in my home oven on the pizza stone.  The first cookie went well but I was in too much of a hurry and did not let the cookie cool enough.  When I went to flip the cookie out of the PJ aluminum pan I made a mess.  I then decided to try the other aluminum pans I had purchased at the webrestuarant store because I only have two PJ aluminum pans.  They are a little it larger than the PJ aluminum pans and I decided to use less chocolate chip cookie dough in those pans to see what would happen.  The second bake in the PJ aluminum pan went good and the weight of the cookie dough was what I used before.  The following bakes in the webrestuarant aluminum pans went good too and less cookie dough was used.  I used different temperatures in my home oven and that went well too. 

I think the same method might work out at market in using different chocolate chip cookie dough weights and also using the webrestuarant aluminum pans.  I could arrive a little earlier at market and bake as many chocolate chip cookies that I think I might need before I start baking pizzas if all goes well.

My mother is coming over later today for dinner.  I will let her taste some of the chocolate chip cookies to get her opinion.

Norma

Cookies look great...

Recipe??? :drool:


Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #721 on: April 01, 2014, 06:51:29 AM »
Cookies look great...

Recipe??? :drool:

Slim,

Thanks!  Peter posted the formulation for the PJ Cookie at Reply 642 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg285618#msg285618

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #722 on: April 01, 2014, 08:25:42 AM »
We had three doughs left over, so we froze them. I had a friend come in this weekend and he wanted to try my pizza and my cousin did as well. We used the frozen doughballs, and one doughball I made a few days before. You honestly couldn't tell which dough was fresh and which one was frozen.

So I can tell everyone for sure that you can keep the dough frozen for at least 16 days with no loss of flavor. Keep in mind I let these doughballs rise for a couple of days before freezing them. So I didn't add any extra yeast.

I'd suggest using a piece of parchment paper, if you freeze the doughball in a ziplock bag like we did. The one doughball we forgot to use parchment paper with was sticking to the bag after it thawed and was a little messy.

Also another tip for anyone using the same formulation: I've found in a few of the ovens I've cooked the pizza that if you push the cook time an extra 30s-min, it gets a fuller, more crispy taste that is unreal.

I've also played around with the sugar amount and have found that 1.5 Tbsp is ideal for my taste.
Jason,

Thank you very much for the update on the frozen Papa John's clone dough balls. What you learned from that exercise should be of help to other members who would also like to have a supply of frozen PJ clone dough balls on hand to tap into from time to time.

I am curious about your statement relating to the use of parchment paper. As a point of clarification, did you wrap the PJ dough balls (all but one) in parchment paper before putting them into Zip-lock bags?

I believe the PJ clone dough recipe you used is the one stated at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.20 (at the top of page 2). I subsequently modified and fine tuned that recipe and posted the changes at Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667. I don't think it really matters all that much which recipe is used but you will note that I increased the amount of sugar in the recipe given at Reply 585. It now stands at 1.67 tablespoons, or a bit more than the 1.5 tablespoons that you are now using. I also lowered the amount of oil to fit the PJ Nutrition Facts better.

Peter

Offline SlimTheMan

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #723 on: April 01, 2014, 12:05:56 PM »
Slim,

Thanks!  Peter posted the formulation for the PJ Cookie at Reply 642 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg285618#msg285618

Norma

Thanks...Godfather's also made a similar chocolate chip cookie...arrived in frozen pre-wheighed dough...thawed and pressed into pan sprayed disposable aluminum pans...I remember dropping our oven temp down to 385F and extending the cooking time...don't remember how long...we used a six slice pie cutter to score the cookie before baking....smiler to the one pictured...

Offline JasonT

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #724 on: April 03, 2014, 12:28:27 AM »
Jason,

Thank you very much for the update on the frozen Papa John's clone dough balls. What you learned from that exercise should be of help to other members who would also like to have a supply of frozen PJ clone dough balls on hand to tap into from time to time.

I am curious about your statement relating to the use of parchment paper. As a point of clarification, did you wrap the PJ dough balls (all but one) in parchment paper before putting them into Zip-lock bags?

I believe the PJ clone dough recipe you used is the one stated at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.20 (at the top of page 2). I subsequently modified and fine tuned that recipe and posted the changes at Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667. I don't think it really matters all that much which recipe is used but you will note that I increased the amount of sugar in the recipe given at Reply 585. It now stands at 1.67 tablespoons, or a bit more than the 1.5 tablespoons that you are now using. I also lowered the amount of oil to fit the PJ Nutrition Facts better.

Peter

Pete,

I believe we ran out of parchment paper, so with the three leftover dough balls, we wrapped two in parchment paper and placed both into a ziplock freezer bag. The other dough ball was placed into only the ziplock.

The dough ball that was only in the ziplock stuck to the plastic and stretched out, so we had to cut the bag to get it out. The parchment paper allowed the other dough balls to peel right off. Just make sure the entire dough ball is wrapped up. You don't want the dough touching the plastic if you can help it.

For the formulation, we used reply #20.

Another tip isn't about dough, but cheese. I had been using the shredded Grande cheese, but since I live near Penn Mac, I grabbed a block of some domestic whole milk mozzarella and it tastes incredible. I believe it holds up so well to the high oven temps because it is made from whole milk? Higher moisture content I assume?




Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #725 on: April 03, 2014, 11:24:53 AM »
Pete,

I believe we ran out of parchment paper, so with the three leftover dough balls, we wrapped two in parchment paper and placed both into a ziplock freezer bag. The other dough ball was placed into only the ziplock.

The dough ball that was only in the ziplock stuck to the plastic and stretched out, so we had to cut the bag to get it out. The parchment paper allowed the other dough balls to peel right off. Just make sure the entire dough ball is wrapped up. You don't want the dough touching the plastic if you can help it.
Jason,

Thank you for the clarification. I had never heard of using parchment paper to wrap dough balls but I can see how that would work. A lower cost alternative that you might consider is to use bread bags with the open ends twisted "pony-tail" style and tucked under. You could also use commercial food safe plastic storage bags such as Norma uses at market. The link she provided for the bags she uses is http://www.webstaurantstore.com/plastic-food-bag-6x3x12-1000-box/1306312%20%20%20%20%201M.html. It was at the suggestion of Tom Lehmann that she went to the use of such bags because of limited space in her spot at market where she could not use dough boxes or trays. I have not heard that she has encountered any sticking problems when using those bags, and they apparently are reusable.

Peter

Offline JasonT

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #726 on: April 04, 2014, 07:49:22 PM »
Jason,

Thank you for the clarification. I had never heard of using parchment paper to wrap dough balls but I can see how that would work. A lower cost alternative that you might consider is to use bread bags with the open ends twisted "pony-tail" style and tucked under. You could also use commercial food safe plastic storage bags such as Norma uses at market. The link she provided for the bags she uses is http://www.webstaurantstore.com/plastic-food-bag-6x3x12-1000-box/1306312%20%20%20%20%201M.html. It was at the suggestion of Tom Lehmann that she went to the use of such bags because of limited space in her spot at market where she could not use dough boxes or trays. I have not heard that she has encountered any sticking problems when using those bags, and they apparently are reusable.

Peter

Hey Pete.

I'll give that a try, thx.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #727 on: April 14, 2014, 07:47:44 PM »
This should not happen to those who make Papa John's clone pizzas at home in accordance with this thread >:D:

http://www.wyff4.com/news/1000-get-shots-after-pizza-place-employee-gets-hepatitis-c/25466456#comments

Peter

Offline steelplayer

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #728 on: April 14, 2014, 10:53:17 PM »
This should not happen to those who make Papa John's clone pizzas at home in accordance with this thread >:D:

http://www.wyff4.com/news/1000-get-shots-after-pizza-place-employee-gets-hepatitis-c/25466456#comments

Peter
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #729 on: April 15, 2014, 11:19:42 PM »
They sell a lot of pizzas.
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Offline Rubberhead

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #730 on: April 20, 2014, 01:04:41 PM »
I'm not sure if my post belongs here, but I've been lurking this thread for a long time and haven't had much luck with PJ Clones, primarily the first long fermented dough posted at reply #2, IIRC.

It always turns out a little too tough and chewy, I'm sure there's something I'm doing wrong.

However I decided to mess around with Pete's formulas and throw my new sourdough starter into the mix and was very happy with the resultant "PJ Clone-style" dough.

Quote
Flour* 90%: 382g
Water 50%: 212g
Starter** 20%: 85g
Salt 1.9%: 8.1g
Oil 7.3%: 31g
Sugar 4.8%: 20.4g
16" pizza @ 0.13 TF

*Gold Medal Unbleached All Purpose
**Starter is 100% hydration, bringing the dough up to 60% total hydration.

I did a few things here, I increased the hydration, increased the salt (as per Pete's latest data), included a sourdough starter, but opted to keep the original clone formula's higher fat %.

Starter was "fully active" i.e., doubling in volume within 8 hours of feeding. Dough was kneaded until well developed, smooth and no longer sticky, fermented at 72F for ~10 hours until nearly doubled in volume, and then refrigerated overnight (approx 12 hours) due to scheduling issues.

Dough was brought to approx. room temperature over an hour as the oven preheated to ~550F. Pizza was shaped, placed on an expanded aluminum screen and baked approx. ~10-12 min. on the second rack from the bottom.

I was very pleased with the results. The only complaint I have is the bottom of the pizza became a little overcooked (read: lightly charred) due to the baking position and my inattentiveness. I wish I had taken pictures, it was one of the most visually pleasing pizzas I've made at home.

Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting, Pete!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #731 on: April 20, 2014, 04:09:11 PM »
Rubberhead,

I am glad that you were finally successful with a PJ clone dough and pizza. The PJ clone formulation set forth in Reply 2 is perhaps the most difficult one for most people to make in a home refrigerator environment. It is more successfully achieved in a commercial setting where every step is controlled with great care and precision. That is very difficult to replicate in a home setting where the refrigerator door is opened so many times over a three- to eight-day period, and the items stored in the refrigerator change daily.

Like you, I attempted to make a PJ clone dough using a natural starter (the Ischia starter). As you can see from the results I posted at Reply 38 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg60892#msg60892, making a sourdough version of the PJ clone dough was challenging but ended up being successful.

Peter

Offline LewisUK

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #732 on: June 01, 2014, 06:17:14 AM »
Hi,

Had a go at the 2 day dough, very impressed. Base was quite thin (how I like it) and had enough to make a stuffed crust if I wanted. My GF works at Dominos so I tried to impress her with my slapping!

Sauce was fairly sweet, but if only a thin layer is used, it work amazing.

Offline USMCKoontz

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #733 on: June 16, 2014, 10:54:18 PM »
Peter,

I agree that comment about the practically frozen dough balls was also interesting.  I know we found out over on the Mellow Mushroom thread that frozen dough balls can perform extraordinarily well, and few diners are likely to be any the wiser.  I can understand why for market purposes that both PJ and Domino's want to play the 'fresh dough' card.  The next time I visit PJ I might ask an employee if the dough balls are frozen when they receive them.

I was reading PMQ Magazine August's issue recently to see if I could get more marketing ideas for my own pizza stand.  I found the article about the X Factor interesting.  Part of the article talked about youth-targeted marketing tactics and an emphasis on simplicity and consistency having made Pizza X a Bloomington favorite for 30-plus years.  Mease and his business partner Lennie Busch broke away from Domino's.  They were employees of Domino's.  Another thing I found interesting in that article was on page 27 and the next few pages it says that they owe a debt to Domino's and it also mentions PJ also owes what is has done to Domino's.  This isn't the whole article that was in the PMQ Magazine, but part of it.  http://www.pmq.com/August-2013/Pizza-X-uses-youth-oriented-marketing-tactics-to-dominate-delivery-in-Bloomington-Ind/  I can't find the direct link to the X Factor article, but in it  says:  “I have tremendous respect for Domino's Pizza and Tom Monaghan and what they accomplished during their first 25 years.” Mease says.  “Monaghan revolutionized the business and demonstrated what was possible.  Many of us, from me to John Schnatter and everyone in between in the delivery business, owe our livelihood to him.”

Norma

Wow.... I grew up on Pizza X (or Pizza Express as it was called when I grew up in Bloomington). Interesting to read that article :)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #734 on: June 19, 2014, 10:25:37 AM »
Hi,

 My GF works at Dominos so I tried to impress her with my slapping!


Geez Lewis, take it easy man. Pizza isn't worth going to jail over!  ;D

CB
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Offline USMCKoontz

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #735 on: June 21, 2014, 02:53:35 PM »
So I read through all of this and I am confused as to which recipe in this topic I am supposed to use lol :) Also how can I break it down to measurments like cups, tsp, tbsp etc...?

thanks :)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #736 on: June 21, 2014, 04:06:03 PM »
So I read through all of this and I am confused as to which recipe in this topic I am supposed to use lol :) Also how can I break it down to measurements like cups, tsp, tbsp etc...?

thanks :)
Koontzy,

When I first started this thread, my objective was to come up with a clone PJ dough that could last from about 3-5 days of cold fermentation, and possibly up to eight days of cold fermentation, as I understood was the case with the doughs that PJ made at its commissaries. That original PJ clone dough formulation is the one given at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197. Over time, I concluded that the clone PJ dough was a difficult one for people to master using a standard home refrigerator. The reason was that a standard home refrigerator, by virtue of its door being opened and closed many times a day, and with items being removed and replaced with regularity, could not maintain the low temperatures that PJ uses in its refrigerated trucks and coolers in its stores. So, I decided to come up with other versions of the PJ dough that were easier to execute. They are not versions that PJ itself uses. The first such version, which turned out to be the most popular alternative version, based on member feedback, is the one given at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217. I subsequently came up with still other versions for those who were looking for different windows of usability of the PJ clone doughs.

As for the use of volume measurements, you will note that I converted the weights for the PJ clone dough formulation set forth in Reply 2 to volume measurements in Reply 12 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58509#msg58509, based on the Textbook conversion method. As you will see if you spend more time on the forum, most members use good digital scales and use weights rather than volume measurements. The reason is that there are so many ways to measure out flour by volume and each method will produce a different weight. Water is measured out more easily by volume but if the flour volume measurement is variable, because of the particular volume measurement method used, the hydration of the flour can be off, sometimes way off. The dough might be too stiff or too wet. I can think of at least five or six different ways of measuring out a cup of flour volumetrically, and each will produce a different weight. You can see some of the different ways of measuring out flour volumetrically by looking at the Measurement Method pull-down menu for the Mass-Volume Measurement Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/. To prove the point, you might try running some scenarios through the calculator to see how the method of measuring out the flour produces different weights for any given volume of flour (you might try using a cup of flour).

As for the PJ clone dough formulation set forth in Reply 20 referenced above, you will see that that reply already gives the weights in volume measurements also.

To the above, I would add that I subsequently came into better information that allowed me to fine tune the original dough formulations referenced above. As a substitute for the PJ clone formulation set forth in Reply 20, I later suggested that members use the modified PJ clone formulation as set forth in Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667;topicseen#msg273667. The main difference was the weight of the dough ball and the relative amounts of the sugar and oil. As a practical matter, one might be hard pressed to tell a difference but since the objective was to try to be accurate in the clone, I revised the dough formulation. I did not modify the original PJ clone dough formulation as set forth in Reply 2 referenced above, but that would be pretty easy to do. The main change would be to use the new amounts of sugar and oil and modify the hydration to be compatible with the rated absorption of the particular type and brand of flour used. That is one of the reasons why I asked you in another thread what kind and brand of flour you were planning to use.

If you can tell me what kind and brand of flour you want or plan to use, and which PJ clone version you want to use, I think I should be able to come up with a modified version to use, including the volume conversions.

Peter

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #737 on: June 26, 2014, 03:45:38 PM »
This should not happen to those who make Papa John's clone pizzas at home in accordance with this thread >:D:

http://www.wyff4.com/news/1000-get-shots-after-pizza-place-employee-gets-hepatitis-c/25466456#comments

Peter

i'm ashamed to have worked somewhere that lets products like that come out from under their name.
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #738 on: July 01, 2014, 09:57:02 AM »
For those who are interested, I recently reported at Reply 66 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=32494.msg322166#msg322166 how a food evangelist who goes by the name of Food Babe took on the major pizza chains. (For a description of what a food evangelist is, see the article at http://www.bakingbusiness.com/articles/news_home/Trends/2014/06/Engaging_the_food_evangelists.aspx?ID=%7b54DA6F2A-0D49-4658-B7DA-18D94AF8EF6F%7d&e=%%emailaddr%%.) Because I try to keep up with what Papa John's does, I took special note of what the Food Babe said about PJ in the chart The HIDDEN MSG IN PIZZA in the article at http://foodbabe.com/2014/03/23/if-youve-ever-eaten-pizza-before-this-will-blow-your-mind/. Looking at that chart, I am hard pressed to see how there might be MSG associated with the use of modified food starch (which is essentially an emulsifier or a thickening agent) or maltodextrin (which is a starch-derived ingredient that is also often used as a thickening agent). I do not ever recall reading in any credible source that these ingredients are hidden sources of MSG, or even natural sources of glutamic acid.

The Food Babe also took issue with the use of enriched flours and soybean oil, which all of the major pizza chains and many smaller pizza operators use, and certainly with respect to the flours they use, which are almost always enriched. If these ingredients are nutritionally offensive or pose health concerns, then one should avoid the pizzas of the chains and look elsewhere for something more to their liking. But where I will agree with the Food Babe is PJ's assertion at its website and elsewhere that it uses "100% mozzarella cheese" (see, for example, http://www.papajohns.com.my/about-real-mozzarellacheese.html). I have addressed this issue before. What PJ uses is actually a cheese blend from Leprino Foods that includes ingredients other than mozzarella cheese. That cheese blend has not changed since I originally posted about it years ago (in 2008) at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58199#msg58199 and confirmed years later at Reply 493 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg260046/topicseen.html#msg260046. I have never been a fan of the PJ cheese blend and consider it to be the weak link in the PJ pizzas but fortunately our members can find and use cheeses in their PJ clones that are better than what PJ uses, and the cheeses will be 100% cheeses with no additives, fillers or preservatives. PJ does not have that option because of its size and volume.

I think the lesson to take away from the above is to be suspicious of food evangelists, especially those without the proper credentials and experience to be able to comment intelligently and with authority on foods, whether it is pizzas or anything else.

Peter

Online JohnA

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #739 on: July 04, 2014, 07:04:49 PM »
Yeah she went after all the major beer makers also, and even got a few of them like Budweiser, to tell her what they use. What a joke, the basics of what to use to make beer is pretty simple, however the choices and blending of all the possible ingredients you can use and the amounts used is where the secrets lie, and they are not going to tell her that sort of stuff. If she was not making what I would guess is to be a fairly decent amount of money off her blog of mostly complaining about food and drink manufacturers and businesses, not to mention using scare tactics to try and make her points and opinions valid, I'd also guess she would not be doing it.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 07:07:32 PM by JohnA »


 

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