Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 287307 times)

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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #275 on: March 04, 2011, 10:33:08 PM »
pete did you ever run the numbers i gave you for size/weight?  they increase in TF as the size goes up, iirc
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Offline Biz Markie

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #276 on: March 05, 2011, 07:25:00 PM »
I wanted to finally get back to y'all on my experience with the PJ Clone dough using the Zojirushi BBCEC-20 Bread Machine.

My first attempt at the PJ Clone (BTW, I am using the formulation and fermentation as set forth at the beginning of the thread) was somewhat of a failure.  The dough did not rise at all in the fridge over the 5 days. 
My problem, I realize(d) is that the dough temperature upon completion of mixing was just not high enough.  I had not achieved the minimum 75 degrees. 
Basically after a couple more tries using the Zojirushi to mix the dough, I have determined that the machine adds very little heat to the dough.  I had actually read this before, so not surprising.  However there does seem to be some variation: in my first attempt, the dough gained about 10 degrees from the initial water temperature.  In my most recent attempt, it seemed to gain almost no heat.

In both of my subsequent attempts, I have just added the water, oil, sugar (in my case I am using Molasses, as I am actually trying to mimic my favorite crust, Mellow Mushroom.  More on that later, perhaps), and salt together from the outset.  I pour the mixture into the bread machine and then add all the flour (flour/VWG blend in my case). 
My model of Zojirushi has a "Homemade" Course, which allows you to turn off or on each individual cycle (preheat, knead, rise, bake) and input a time for each cycle.  Therefore, it is possible (and preferable) to have no preheating, just pure kneading. 
So for my experiments, I have just programmed Kneading, and set a 15 minute timer.  That way I can watch the timer count down and thus knead the dough for as long as I want.
Trying to follow the mixing instructions from the initial post in this thread, I allowed the machine to knead for 3 minutes, then popped it open and sprinkled the IDY onto the dough mass (while it was still kneading, of course).  I then allowed it to knead for additional time (only 3 minutes in my second attempt, and 6 additional minutes in my third attempt).
The consistency of the dough in both attempts was quite good.  The ball was cohesive and uniform in texture.

In my first attempt, I used a water temp of about 60 degrees.  The finished dough was only about 71 degrees.  Clearly using the Zojirushi requires a much warmer water temperature than the 55 degrees mentioned in Pete's initial recipe.  My second attempt I used about 77 degree water, but the finished dough after 9 total minutes of kneading was really about the same.  So not sure if my initial measurement was wrong, or if the water cooled a bit when I added the flour into the machine's pan, or it simply didn't gain much heat from the kneading. 

But finally on this most recent attempt, my dough finally started rising somewhere between day 3 and 4 in the fridge.  SUCCESS! 

So the lesson learned for using the Zojirushi appears to be that the initial water temp needs to be very near to the target finished dough temperature. 

As mentioned above, I admit that I am really trying to clone the Mellow Mushroom crust (very surprised no one here has tried!  Pete - you should give it a go! LOL).  It has one very unique flavor that some have attributed to Molasses.  This agrees with the fact that their dough is a golden brown color, even in the crumb. 
Anyway, despite the initial weirdness in my first 2 PJ/Mellow Shroom Clone attempts, the flavor has indeed been very close to the 'Shroom, and the results not too shabby.

Feeling as though I have solved the mystery of getting well-behaving doughs using the Zojirushi, I have now decided to try to conquer another issue: the fact that I do not have a kitchen scale.
In my most recent attempt, I used the Expanded Dough Calculator to come up with a formulation that results in nice, neat volume measurements for all ingredients (or very close to it).  I also decided that the PJ/Mellow Shroom clone doughs I've done so far have been a little on the oily side (could have something to do with the fermentation issues I've had though).  So the dough I currently have in the fridge has the following formulation:

Flour (100%):   451.71 g  |  15.93 oz | 1 lbs
Water (58%):   261.99 g  |  9.24 oz | 0.58 lbs
IDY (.165%):   0.75 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.25 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
Salt (1.85%):   8.36 g | 0.29 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
Oil (4.49%):   20.28 g | 0.72 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.51 tsp | 1.5 tbsp
Sugar (4.85%):   21.91 g | 0.77 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.5 tsp | 1.83 tbsp
total   764.99 g | 26.98 oz | 1.69 lbs | TF = 0.1385   (I used a diameter of greater than 14 inches even though that is the size I am making.  I did this as a layman's way of hopefully achieving a thicker overall crust than my prior attempts, which came out too thin in the middle).      

I will let you know how it goes.  I am now obsessed with coming up with a good formula that has all even volume measurements!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #277 on: March 05, 2011, 07:53:18 PM »
Biz Markie,

Thank you for the experiments with your Zo and the update. If you succeed in achieving a credible Mellow Mushroom clone, you perhaps will want to start a new thread devoted to your efforts to clone that particular product.

As you know, my initial efforts were to try to make a cold fermented Papa John's clone dough that could make it out to around 8 days or so. There are several ways to do this. One is to use a small amount of yeast, such as IDY, and add it late in the dough preparation process, as you did. You can also use ADY dry, as I tried and discussed in another post earlier in this thread. Although I haven't tried it with a PJ clone, you can also use a smaller amount of salt. But, whichever method is used, it is very important that you get some fermentation going. And, for this to happen, in a home setting you need to get a finished dough temperature of around 75 degrees F.

Peter


Offline bpizza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #278 on: March 05, 2011, 11:44:18 PM »
Thanks Pete-zza and c0mpl3x.

Pete-zza, thanks for the recommendation, but can you recommend a cold rise recipe? I can use the expanded dough calculating tool and do the conversion myself.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #279 on: March 06, 2011, 11:23:13 AM »
Pete-zza, thanks for the recommendation, but can you recommend a cold rise recipe? I can use the expanded dough calculating tool and do the conversion myself.

bpizza,

The only other 24-hour PJ clone dough that I discussed is the one at Reply 31 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg60076.html#msg60076. That one is for a 24-hour cold fermented PJ clone dough. I had suggested the 24-hour room temperature fermented PJ clone dough at Reply 35 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg60197.html#msg60197 because that dough is more likely to come closer to a real PJ dough. I don't know the exact relationship, but a dough that is fermented at room temperature for 24 hours is equivalent to several days of cold fermentation. And that is the reason I developed the 24-hour room temperature version. However, that shouldn't deter you from trying a 24-hour cold fermented dough even though the results won't be quite as good as a longer fermented dough. If you can spare a second day, you might try the PJ clone dough formulation (which calls for two days of cold fermentation) set forth in Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217. That version appears to be one of the most popular versions in this thread.

Whichever dough formulation you settle upon, you might want to use the Dough Weight feature of the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and use the 17-17.5 ounces of dough that c0mpl3x suggested in Reply 273. If you prefer to use the Thickness Factor option of the expanded dough calculating tool for the 13" size pizza, the thickness factor that corresponds to 17-17.5 ounces of dough is 0.12808-0.13184.

Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #280 on: March 06, 2011, 10:12:21 PM »
use the 17-17.5 ounces of dough that c0mpl3x suggested in Reply 273

i find that using a slightly thinner dough than what PJ would use produces a better tasting dough than one that is overly too thick and uneven, related to using 18oz or more of dough, in a home oven.   commissary mixers and dough worklines handle dough specifically the same way every time, for days/weeks/years at a time and produce a consistent product.

also, a larger mass of dough is harder to work with if you are inexperienced, as you will usually wind up with a skin larger than you aimed for.  :pizza:
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Offline TMTM

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #281 on: March 13, 2011, 12:44:21 PM »
Over position - Does the lowest oven position make the bottom of the pizza cook faster then the toppings? and a higher position cooking the toppings faster then the bottom crust?

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #282 on: March 13, 2011, 01:26:03 PM »
Over position - Does the lowest oven position make the bottom of the pizza cook faster then the toppings? and a higher position cooking the toppings faster then the bottom crust?

TMTM,

In my electric oven, yes. I often move a pizza that has baked on the lowest oven rack position to the upper oven rack position to get more top crust/cheese browning.

Peter

Offline TMTM

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #283 on: March 13, 2011, 02:21:16 PM »
TMTM,

In my electric oven, yes. I often move a pizza that has baked on the lowest oven rack position to the upper oven rack position to get more top crust/cheese browning.

Peter

I just got my pizza screen in the oven today and I put it down on the bottom the whole bake.. the bottom was nice and brown while the cheese was white... wanted to get the cheese well done but soft crust.. I'll try it on a higher rack next time.. btw it tasted good anyway.. but wife like soft papa johns crust.. if you keep the wife happy etc etc...


Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #284 on: March 18, 2011, 09:22:49 AM »
yesterday i looked at the manufacturer of the perforated discs used in papa johns.

they are quik-discs, made by lloyd industries. 
http://www.pizzatools.com/Original_Quik-Disk_40/31089/subgrouping.htm?sort=sku
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Offline turo1973

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #285 on: March 28, 2011, 03:22:48 AM »
I have some questions. What is IDY? Is not too much oil (25.87 grs.)? Some say use one tablespoon, and last question, in the photo "PJ4 dough ball 1.JPG" are you using semolina to knead it and avoid it to be sticky?

Than you very much for your patience and amiability  :D.

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #286 on: March 28, 2011, 09:04:05 AM »
turo1973,

All of your questions relate to what I wrote and showed in Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58197.html#msg58197.

IDY is a common abbreviation for "instant dry yeast". That term, as well as many other pizza-related terms, is discussed in greater detail in the forum's Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html.

The 7.3% oil (25.87 grams) was my best estimate of the amount of oil to use based on my research of Papa John's nutrition information. Analyzing that type of information is not easy to do, so it is possible that my estimate is not 100% correct. It is also possible that one can use a different amount of oil and still get good results. Someone might not even notice a difference. I believe the same applies to the amount of sugar used. But, I believe that both the oil and sugar are used in amounts that are greater than with other pizza styles. In your case, you should feel free to experiment and do your own comparisons with a real Papa John's pizza. I would certainly be interested in your results and comments if you decide to conduct your own experiments.

I used the semolina blend because that is what Papa John's uses. Since it is used as a bench flour, some of it will inevitably find its way into the dough as the dough is being shaped. A Papa John's dough, whether a real PJ dough or a clone dough, should not be sticky, but if it is for any reason, for example, due to overfermentation, then the semolina blend will reduce that stickiness just like any other bench flour.

Peter

Offline turo1973

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #287 on: March 28, 2011, 07:41:55 PM »
Hello Peter  ;D
In almost all recipes I have seen the yeast is added to warm water and salt and/or sugar and let it foam and after that it is added to the flour and other ingredients but in your recipe you say to mix all but the yeast and when it is already a dough then (not before) you add the yeast to the dough, it is very different from the other recipes, when you add the yeast to the dough can it still ferment the dough and will it still rise?

Thank you for your patience :)

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #288 on: March 28, 2011, 09:14:36 PM »
In almost all recipes I have seen the yeast is added to warm water and salt and/or sugar and let it foam and after that it is added to the flour and other ingredients but in your recipe you say to mix all but the yeast and when it is already a dough then (not before) you add the yeast to the dough, it is very different from the other recipes, when you add the yeast to the dough can it still ferment the dough and will it still rise?

Turo,

You touch upon a very important aspect of the Papa John's dough, both for an original Papa John's dough and a clone of that dough. What is important to keep in mind is that Papa John's has to deliver dough balls made in commissaries scattered around the U.S. to its several thousand stores twice a week. The dough balls are fresh, not frozen, and have to be delivered to the stores in refrigerated trucks. The doughs have to be usable in the stores from about 5-8 days.

There are only so many ways to accomplish the above objectives. One way is to use small amounts of yeast and try to keep the dough balls as cold as possible. Using IDY or ADY (active dry yeast) in their conventional way (adding IDY dry to the dough mix or rehydrated ADY to the dough mix) might achieve a usable window of a few to several days but that might not be sufficient to allow the dough balls to last up to 8 days under the operating and logistical model used by Papa John's. A more unconventional approach that can achieve that objective is to add the IDY toward the end of the dough making process. An even more unconventional method would be to use ADY in dry form, without rehydration. There is nothing particularly unusual about adding yeast toward the end of the dough making process. That is frequently done with doughs that employ autolyse methods. Some bakers also add the yeast toward the end of the dough making process, usually to delay the fermentation process. I spent a lot of time studying and experimenting with prolonging the lives of pizza dough balls, and found that I could make dough balls that could last weeks under refrigeration and still be usable. Some of the principles that came out of that experimentation were incorporated into the dough formulation that I posted in Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58197.html#msg58197. You can read about those experiments in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg33251.html#msg33251. I would not be the least bit surprised to learn that Papa John's uses methods such as those described in that thread.

You mentioned in your last post about adding the yeast to warm water and salt and sugar, and then to the flour, etc. There are people who do that but I do not. I specifically don't add IDY or ADY to water along with salt and/or sugar. There are ways of doing that, but the steps have to be done in the proper sequence so that the salt and sugar do not impede the performance of the yeast through osmotic action. Under normal circumstances, when I use IDY, I usually add it directly to the flour. If I use ADY, I usually rehydrate it in a small amount of water at around 105-110 degrees F for about 10 minutes. I don't add ADY directly to salt and/or sugar in the water. When I use salt or sugar, I usually dissolve the salt or sugar in water (preferably) or I add them dry to the flour. For the Papa John's clone doughs, I departed from those general methods with respect to the yeast but I did that in order to be able to make dough balls that can last up to about 8 days under refrigeration.

Peter

Offline Stevorino

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #289 on: April 08, 2011, 07:19:21 PM »
P00000ete, 000

Thanks for putting all of this together.  I am a very novice pizza-maker but have been slowly ramping up my efforts at home.  My wife LOVES papa johns, and she compares every pizza I've made to a papa johns pizza.  So I am finally attempting at equaling papa johns so I can move on to other styles. 

In my search for cloning this recipe, google brought me to this thread and awesome site.  So you deserve my thanks: thank you.

I have prepped 2 versions of your dough that are currently in the fridge fermenting:  'Reply 2: 5 day' and the 2 day version.  I wanted to try both to see the difference between a 2 day and 5 day fermentation.

My main question for you at this point is how to cook this pizza.  I have a pizza stone (I believe it is 14 inch) and a round pizza sheet (like a cookie sheet - no holes). 

So:

1) How should I cook this given my current options
2) For next time, assuming I'm willing to get the ideal device to hold the pizza in the oven, what should I buy?

Thanks Pete - great stuff in this thread.  Your efforts are much appreciated here in Atlanta, GA!

 :chef:  Steve  :chef:

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #290 on: April 08, 2011, 07:46:42 PM »
Steve,

All of the Papa John's clone pizzas that I have made and reported on in this thread were baked on a pizza screen (mainly 14"). The reason is that I was trying to do things the same way as Papa John's but using a standard electric home oven rather than a conveyor. However, there are some members who have baked their PJ clones directly on a pizza stone, apparently with good results based on the reports I have seen. So, as between a stone and a non-perforated pizza sheet, I would go with the stone. However, because of the high sugar content of the PJ clone dough, which can lead to premature or excessive bottom crust browning when baked directly on a preheated pizza stone, I would monitor the bottom crust browning to be sure that it isn't excessive. If it does brown too quickly, I would move the pizza off of the pizza stone to a higher oven rack position. That will slow down the bottom crust browning but increase the top crust and cheese browning and also speed up the bake of any toppings. If you and/or your wife are happy with the results, then I suppose that could become your standard way of making the PJ clones. But, to be truer to the PJ pizza style, you would perhaps want to get a pizza screen or one of the new perforated PSTK disks from PizzaTools.com that PJs is transitioning to in its stores (I myself have not tried using the disk). If you get to the point where you want to explore such carriers, let me know and I can provide more details on them.

Peter

Offline Stevorino

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #291 on: April 08, 2011, 08:48:26 PM »
Pete,

Thanks for the quick response.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on pizza trays, disks, and other carriers. 

Thanks!

Steve


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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #292 on: April 08, 2011, 08:58:15 PM »
I'd love to hear your thoughts on pizza trays, disks, and other carriers. 

Steve,

I suggest that you do an Advanced forum search at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=search;advanced or use the Google search feature at the bottom of each page of the forum to find threads/posts on this subject. I have written extensively on the use of pizza screens. I have written about disks also, specifically, perforated disks, but less so since they have not done nearly as well in my standard electric home oven. Disks were designed for conveyor use, where the heat distribution is different than what I can get in my home oven.

Peter

Offline Stevorino

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #293 on: April 09, 2011, 09:00:20 AM »
Thanks Peter - sounds like screens are the way to go.  I'll do a search this weekend!


Offline Stevorino

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #294 on: April 10, 2011, 07:34:22 PM »
I'm going to start this with the good news, because it was what matters:  This was probably the best pizza I've ever made.  Also, I had problems with the cooking surfaces which was a learning experience for next time.

The pertinent information:  This first pizza was made using the 2-day fermentation option (5-day is in the fridge working away).  It was very good.  As my wife put it best, "Some bites taste like classic PJ and some bites just taste like good pizza." That was the story of the pizza.  Being my first attempt, I'd say that some of it is to blame on my cooking surfaces.  I started with a round cookie-sheet on the top shelf of the oven and tried to move it mid-bake to a pre-heated pizza stone.  Unfortunately the pizza was sticking to the sheet, so I just moved the cookie sheet down and placed it on the pizza stone.  Next time I will put a little bit more flour/cornmeal down on the cookie sheet so that doesn't happen again.

Great pizza recipe that is, at the very least, very much like Papa Johns style pizza.  I will post my thoughts on Pete-zza's 5 day recipe later this week!

Steve


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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #295 on: May 17, 2011, 11:25:25 AM »
Earlier in this thread, at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58413.html#msg58413, in response to a post by marc (widespreadpizza), there was a discussion of a supposed "mysterious ingredient" use in the Papa John's dough. Off and on, including recently at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13725.msg137596.html#msg137596, there have been other attempts to resolve the mystery. As I noted earlier today at Reply 11 in that thread, I believe I have solved the mystery.

Solving the mystery was actually quite simple. I just called Papa John's, at the telephone number (1-888-404-7537) that I have used before to speak to someone at PJs about their products. I ended up being connected to Diane Helms. I had spoken to her before and assumed that she was just a customer service rep but one with a good working knowledge of the ingredients that go into their products and the related nutrition information. As it turns out, she is the PJ manager of domestic R&D. I even later found a photo of her at http://www.dnj.com/article/B2/20110507/BUSINESS/305080035/Papa-John-s-gains-heat-up-pizza-race. (Note: See EDIT below for a working link of a photo of Ms. Helms).

I asked Diane about the reference by John Schnatter (the founder and CEO of PJs) in the PJ Facebook video at
http://www.newlocaltv.com/media-center.html?videoid=76 to a particular kind of seed used to make the PJ flour. As previously noted, the reference is at about 3:15 in the video. I asked Diane what John Schnatter was saying about that seed. She said it is the Platte River seed. She went on to explain that that seed was developed specifically for PJs in order to achieve a particular flavor in the finished crust, a point she emphasized a few times during our conversation. The flour itself is a proprietary flour that is milled specifically for PJs, and whichever miller does the milling for PJs is not permitted to sell the flour to anyone else. It is exclusive to PJs. Diane believes that the name Platte River was given to the flour by people who were involved in coming up with the particular seed used to make the flour. It is not something that someone can go and ask for and expect to end up with the PJ flour. For what it is worth, a quick Google search shows that there is apparently a Platte River in Nebraska. Nebraska happens to be one of the growing areas for hard red spring wheat.

I also asked Diane about the protein content of the PJ flour. I specifically mentioned that at one time PJs promoted their flour as being a "high-gluten" flour. She said that that was still true. When I said that to me "high gluten" meant around 14% protein, she said "Well, it isn't quite that high". As I have mentioned before, I have suspected that PJ's flour was in the 13.0-14% range. I think that that may also be true of many of the large pizza chains. For one thing, it tends to lend itself better to a delivery type pizza than a pure high-gluten flour that can lead to an overly chewy and leathery crust when it cools down during delivery.

Peter

EDIT (8/10/12): For a replacement link showing a photo of Ms. Helms, see http://www.comparechains.com/team/.
EDIT 2 (10/25/13): Replaced the Facebook video link with another video link
EDIT 3 (6/8/14): For additional commentary on the Schnatter video, see http://louisville.eater.com/archives/2013/08/19/papa-john-revealed-some-of-his-pizza-ingredients-in-2010.php

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #296 on: May 17, 2011, 03:11:26 PM »
Thanks for the information Peter.   :)

I'm certainly familiar with the Platte River around here, and now that statement from the video makes more sense. 

I ordered a PJ pizza last week for the family just to get out of a rut and we were quite satisfied with the product.  It is still probably the only major national pizza chain that I will consider ordering from for delivery/take-out.
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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #297 on: May 17, 2011, 03:41:39 PM »
M_E,

From a reverse engineering and cloning standpoint, it appears that I got lucky when I was able to get the ingredients lists out of Papa John's. When I was doing some PJ-related research today, I came across a wellness blog, at http://sacredwellness.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/inquiry-into-papa-johns-pizza/, where the posters were complaining that Diane Helms was unwilling to provide the PJ ingredients lists to them. I received my copy almost three years ago, from a PJ's corporate headquarters employee who apparently is no longer with the company or has moved into another position. I can't assure anyone that my clones are tracking the latest iterations of the PJ pizzas. But the ingredients lists, along with the PJ Nutrition Facts, were very useful in coming up with the various clones discussed on this thread. So, I am grateful I got the information when I did. Today, I would be out of luck without the ingredients lists.

Peter

Offline ggrashow

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #298 on: June 28, 2011, 08:49:40 PM »
Just made a PJ Clone to Pete-zza's recipe.  It came out incredibly good.  I mixed the dough in an old fashioned hand operated dough maker, used KA Sir Lancelot flour (sifted), used my own sauce, fresh mozzarella chunked, a little Parmesan under the sauce, mushrooms and fresh basil.  8 minutes at 500 cooked it to perfection. If I knew how to post the photos, I would.  Thanks for a great recipe..........Gary, New Hampshire

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #299 on: June 29, 2011, 05:55:20 PM »
Gary,

I'm glad the PJ clone recipe worked out so well for you. Can you tell me which recipe you used specifically?

Using the KASL flour perhaps puts you closer to the type of high-gluten flour that PJ's used years ago. Now I believe that they use a somewhat softer, lower-protein flour-- one that is milled exclusively for PJ.

Peter



 

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