Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 195653 times)

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Offline pearlofafrika

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #300 on: September 19, 2011, 02:42:28 PM »
Pete, which recipe do you like the best?

I've tried two-- the first one was the 8 hour pizza; the second was the emergency 2 hour pizza. I much preferred the first because the crust wasn't as puffy, if you will. I'm afraid of trying the 5 day pizza because I just can't plan ahead, and if I do, I do not want it to be disappointing.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #301 on: September 19, 2011, 02:57:56 PM »
Pete, which recipe do you like the best?

I've tried two-- the first one was the 8 hour pizza; the second was the emergency 2 hour pizza. I much preferred the first because the crust wasn't as puffy, if you will. I'm afraid of trying the 5 day pizza because I just can't plan ahead, and if I do, I do not want it to be disappointing.


pearlofafrika,

Whe I am asked for recommendations, I usually recommend the two-day PJ clone dough formulation at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217. I think the best PJ clone dough formulation is the one given in Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58197.html#msg58197, but that is because I think that that clone formulation comes closest to what PJ does, or at least did as of the time I came up with that formulation. The two-day version is a compromise solution, but a good one, because you don't have to wait 3-8 days to make and use the dough. The 3-8 day version is perhaps the hardest of all the PJ clone dough formulations to execute successfully in a home setting. I would say that the two-day version is the most popular of those I posted.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 02:59:36 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline pearlofafrika

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #302 on: September 20, 2011, 09:38:33 AM »
Thank you so much! I've studied it, and I'm off to buy a scale today. I'll be hoping to replicate it. The first couple of times I did it without a scale and just approximate measurements, but I can see how humidity, etc, can really alter measurements done with cups & teaspoons. I just want to be authenticate to your recipe as possible.

I still need to buy a pizza screen, though.

Offline Nickos219

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #303 on: October 02, 2011, 03:37:22 PM »
has anyone cloned their garlic  butter dipping sauce?
that stuff rocks

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #304 on: October 02, 2011, 03:53:46 PM »
has anyone cloned their garlic  butter dipping sauce?
that stuff rocks

1/2 clove garlic 1 stick margarine 2t soybean oil is as close as i've came
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #305 on: October 02, 2011, 03:57:23 PM »
has anyone cloned their garlic  butter dipping sauce?
that stuff rocks


Nickos219,

If anyone has cloned that sauce I do not believe it was revealed on the forum. If you would like to see the list of ingredients for that product that I received a few years ago, see Reply 22 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59232/topicseen.html#msg59232.

Peter

Offline Nickos219

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #306 on: October 02, 2011, 04:45:56 PM »
yep i read that post, i dont have margorine at home to try to play with finding the recipe
i searched and theres nothing on a garlic butter dipping sauce on these forums :(

oh well ill get around to it some day

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #307 on: October 02, 2011, 08:43:05 PM »
yep i read that post, i dont have margorine at home to try to play with finding the recipe
i searched and theres nothing on a garlic butter dipping sauce on these forums :(

oh well ill get around to it some day

i have posted both the closest i come to a PJ GDS, and my own GDS within the past month
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #308 on: October 09, 2011, 03:45:03 PM »
Earlier in this thread I complained about the commercial, professionally-prepared photographs prepared by food stylists for Papa Johnís. As an example, I showed what a Papa Johnís Applepie dessert pizza looks like at Papa Johnís website, at http://www.papajohns.com/menu/side_applepie.shtm. My clone of that pizza is shown in Replies 107 and 108 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg80757.html#msg80757. I subsequently purchased an Applepie dessert pizza from Papa Johnís and that pizza is shown at Reply 127 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg80932.html#msg80932.

Today, I found an article at the New York Times website that discusses how professional food stylists style foods for advertising purposes, including for Papa Johnís and for pizza in general (including using glue to hold pizza together). The article, at http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/business/in-food-commercials-flying-doughnuts-and-big-budgets.html, makes for interesting and entertaining reading. Check out the pasta video also.

The deception with the PJ Applepie pizza is that the icing can't be put on the pizza before baking or even when put into the pizza box because in both cases the icing will melt and spread. The icing has to go on the pizza when it is cool.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 06:01:41 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #309 on: October 09, 2011, 08:08:46 PM »
Peter,

The article you referenced was interesting.  I never knew there where directors or food stylists that turned menu concoctions into objects of ďplausibly scrumptiousĒ food for commercials. I just thought they were great photographers or camera crews that did those commercials and pictures of food. I also found it interesting that some food items are faked and rehearsals are previewed by the clients.  The money those directors charge by the day is a lot too.  No wonder most of the public is fooled into thinking a food product is better than it really is.  The Steamy Scenes of Pasta video sure is food commercial magic.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #310 on: October 09, 2011, 09:03:03 PM »
Peter or anyone that might be interested,

I was doing a search for MMís commissary and found this one about Papa Johnís commissary.  I donít know if you read this article or not, but the article goes though the next couple of pages, about how Papa Johnís commissary works.  http://www.bizjournals.com/louisville/stories/2010/05/31/story3.html?page=5

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #311 on: October 09, 2011, 09:57:02 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for the link to the Papa John's commissary operation. The article is quite interesting and confirms much of what I learned about the PJ dough and its preparation through all of the research I conducted.

However, There are a couple of changes from what I learned since I started this thread in 2008. The first is that no mention is made of the use of oil in the PJ dough. That could mean either that PJ is no longer using oil in its dough or perhaps the omission in the article was an oversight. The second difference is the weight of a dough ball for a large pizza--20.25 ounces, plus or minus one-quarter ounce. The last dough ball weight I used for a PJ 14" pizza was 21 ounces. If my number was correct, I suppose it is possible that PJ has reduced the amount of dough for its 14" pizza. If so, the corresponding thickness factor would be 0.12992-0.13317. Interestingly, when I asked Diane Helms, the PJ director of domestic R&D at PJ, what the weight of a dough ball for a PJ 14" pizza was, she told me that that information was proprietary.

When I have a chance, I may take a look at the latest PJ Nutrition Facts to see if I can detect any changes from the Nutrition Facts I used to come up with the original PJ dough clone formulation. I recall at one time seeing changes in that information but didn't have a way to know specifically where the changes were made.

Peter

EDIT (10/27/12): Support for using about 20 ounces of dough for the 14" size PJ pizza seems to come from Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6749.msg58090.html#msg58090.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 08:35:06 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #312 on: October 09, 2011, 10:12:59 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for the link to the Papa John's commissary operation. The article is quite interesting and confirms much of what I learned about the PJ dough and its preparation through all of the research I conducted.

However, There are a couple of changes from what I learned since I started this thread in 2008. The first is that no mention is made of the use of oil in the PJ dough. That could mean either that PJ is no longer using oil in its dough or perhaps the omission in the article was an oversight. The second difference is the weight of a dough ball for a large pizza--20.25 ounces, plus or minus one-quarter ounce. The last dough ball weight I used for a PJ 14" pizza was 21 ounces. If my number was correct, I suppose it is possible that PJ has reduced the amount of dough for its 14" pizza. if so, the corresponding thickness factor would be 0.12992-
0.13317. Interestingly, when I asked Diane Helms, the PJ director of domestic R&D at PJ, what the weight of a dough ball for a PJ 14" pizza was, she told me that that information was proprietary.

When I have a chance, I may take a look at the latest PJ Nutrition Facts to see if I can detect any changes from the Nutrition Facts I used to come up with the original PJ dough clone formulation. I recall at one time seeing changes in that information but didn't have a way to know specifically where the changes were made.

Peter


higher sugar and yeast doughs with 1-2% higher hydration are making their way to specific climates right now.   western PA is about 2 weeks from the switch.  it usually happens around a week before halloween.   dough for about 3 weeks is horrible, sometimes it doesn't rise for a week, sometimes it has no sugar or salt, sometimes it was so poorly mixed and balled you find clumps of flour and hard spots.
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #313 on: October 10, 2011, 04:42:02 PM »
When I have a chance, I may take a look at the latest PJ Nutrition Facts to see if I can detect any changes from the Nutrition Facts I used to come up with the original PJ dough clone formulation. I recall at one time seeing changes in that information but didn't have a way to know specifically where the changes were made.


I went back and compared the Papa John's Nutrition Facts for 2008, 2009 and 2011 for a basic 14" cheese pizza and a basic 14" pepperoni pizza. It looks like the weight of a 14" cheese pizza went down from 2008 to 2009, by almost two ounces, but it is hard to say whether it was because of using less dough or less cheese (or maybe less of both). The weight of a 14" cheese pizza for 2011 remains the same as in 2009. The weight of a 14" pepperoni pizza remained the same for 2008 and 2009 (which would suggest no change in dough ball weight) but actually went up in 2011, by about a half ounce. Again, it is hard to pinpoint what was responsible for the change. Also, as mentioned before, there are all kinds of rounding factors involved in Nutrition Facts and the actual numbers are produced by specialized software. So, the Nutrition Facts don't always tell you what has actually happened.

With respect to the use of oil in the dough, I did not see anything in the Nutrition Facts to suggest that the oil used in PJ's dough has been discontinued. In fact, looking at the PJ FAQ webpage at http://www.papajohns.com/menu/allergens.shtm, there are two places where it is stated that the PJ dough contains soybean oil. The FAQs are as of March 2010. The article that Norma cited is dated as of the end of May, 2010. It perhaps took a while to write the article so I am guessing that the use of oil in PJ's dough was inadvertently omitted from the article.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #314 on: October 10, 2011, 06:15:25 PM »
Peter,

Good to hear you checked to see if Papa Johnís is still adding oil to their dough. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #315 on: October 31, 2011, 05:48:40 PM »
This thread recently quietly made its way into the #10 spot of the forum's top 10 boards in terms of page views. It displaced another popular big chain American style clone pizza: the Little Caesars clone. In both cases, there was not a lot of recent posting activity. The popularity stems from users who come to the forum, or maybe even join the forum, in search of recipes.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #316 on: October 31, 2011, 07:01:37 PM »
This thread recently quietly made its way into the #10 spot of the forum's top 10 boards in terms of page views. It displaced another popular big chain American style clone pizza: the Little Caesars clone. In both cases, there was not a lot of recent posting activity. The popularity stems from users who come to the forum, or maybe even join the forum, in search of recipes.

Peter

Peter,

Congrats, on all the hard work and experiments you did on this thread, for it to become the #10 ten spot in terms of pages views. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #317 on: October 31, 2011, 07:44:57 PM »
Congrats, on all the hard work and experiments you did on this thread, for it to become the #10 ten spot in terms of pages views. 

Norma,

Thank you, Norma, but actually, I am disappointed. I would have hoped that more people would try the recipes and report back on their results and, in the process, give something back to the forum or at least become active members on the forum and enter posts that have value to the members. However, it looks like too many people are only looking for recipes and little else. I view clone recipes as being different than most recipes in that they are created out of whole cloth and not likely to be found anywhere on the Internet or in any book that I am aware of. I think that that makes the recipes more valuable. I don't have to tell you but you know from our own collaborations that it takes a lot of work and time and research to reverse engineer and clone famous dough recipes and pizzas, and occasionally even some out of pocket expenses. Seeing that the forum has not benefited from all the work that has been done with cloning efforts, and certainly not in any economic sense, I have been rethinking my strategy on doing this sort of thing. I may do it but not post my results on the forum and look for other ways of sharing those results with others. I am not anxious to create formulations for strangers who are only looking for clone recipes and who have no interest in the well being of the forum.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #318 on: October 31, 2011, 09:27:09 PM »
Norma,

Thank you, Norma, but actually, I am disappointed. I would have hoped that more people would try the recipes and report back on their results and, in the process, give something back to the forum or at least become active members on the forum and enter posts that have value to the members. However, it looks like too many people are only looking for recipes and little else. I view clone recipes as being different than most recipes in that they are created out of whole cloth and not likely to be found anywhere on the Internet or in any book that I am aware of. I think that that makes the recipes more valuable. I don't have to tell you but you know from our own collaborations that it takes a lot of work and time and research to reverse engineer and clone famous dough recipes and pizzas, and occasionally even some out of pocket expenses. Seeing that the forum has not benefited from all the work that has been done with cloning efforts, and certainly not in any economic sense, I have been rethinking my strategy on doing this sort of thing. I may do it but not post my results on the forum and look for other ways of sharing those results with others. I am not anxious to create formulations for strangers who are only looking for clone recipes and who have no interest in the well being of the forum.

Peter

Peter,

I can understand that you might be a little disappointed.  I think many people in this rush, rush, to do everything world, probably only come here on the forum to get what they want and then leave, without reporting back on what their results were, or how the reverse-engineered threads have helped them.  It would be nice if they would give something back to the forum, even if to say that the formula or something else here on the forum they tried did work for them.  I know it takes awhile to reverse engineer pizzas, from the small amount of reverse engineered threads I have worked on.  I can also understand your position on sharing what you spent a long time researching. 

Norma
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Offline johnamus

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #319 on: November 03, 2011, 09:24:50 PM »

Norma,

Thank you, Norma, but actually, I am disappointed. I would have hoped that more people would try the recipes and report back on their results and, in the process, give something back to the forum or at least become active members on the forum and enter posts that have value to the members. However, it looks like too many people are only looking for recipes and little else. I view clone recipes as being different than most recipes in that they are created out of whole cloth and not likely to be found anywhere on the Internet or in any book that I am aware of. I think that that makes the recipes more valuable. I don't have to tell you but you know from our own collaborations that it takes a lot of work and time and research to reverse engineer and clone famous dough recipes and pizzas, and occasionally even some out of pocket expenses. Seeing that the forum has not benefited from all the work that has been done with cloning efforts, and certainly not in any economic sense, I have been rethinking my strategy on doing this sort of thing. I may do it but not post my results on the forum and look for other ways of sharing those results with others. I am not anxious to create formulations for strangers who are only looking for clone recipes and who have no interest in the well being of the forum.

Peter

Pete-zza,

I belong to the demographic you refer to; I joined in 2008 and this will only be my 35th post.  I found the site after it came up in the search results when I was on the hunt for a clone recipe to be used in a family pizza bake-off.  I found the recipe I was looking for, but I also found a forum and small group of talented and experienced pizza enthusiasts such as yourself.  I've often referred back to the site, but most times felt like my knowledge level was too small to add anything of value to the threads.  I suppose what I'm trying to say is that there is a countless number of people out there who haven't posted but have benefited from your trials, a countless number of non-posters who enjoyed the taste of a better pie due only to the fact that you were altruistic enough to share your knowledge and experiences.  

Before the internet age, people with your level of culinary influence and power were those lucky few who appeared on television or print.  But in today's age you and the other PF elite have an influence on the population comparable to the Prosper Montagnť's, Urbain Dubois's, and maybe even Julia Child's of the past.  It would be a terrible loss if you were to reduce your activity on these forums; a terrible loss for me personally and honestly a terrible loss for society.  Your posts will be on the internet long after we have all passed away, people who will be born 75 or 100 years from now will be using your recipes and your hard work will put a smile on their faces.  That must be a tremendous feeling, its the type of feeling that led John D Rockeffeler to give away vast amounts to medicine in his lifetime, it's the type of feeling that led Bill Gates to establish his charitable foundation.  I'd venture to say that most of humanity wants to experience that feeling, but few have the means and ability to do so.  You have that ability Pete-zza.  And I sincerely hope you reconsider reducing your activity level on the forums.

-John
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 09:30:29 PM by johnamus »