Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 226437 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #380 on: October 23, 2012, 09:42:37 AM »
jsflagg,

I'm glad that you and your family enjoyed your one-day Papa John's clone pizza, and thanks for providing feedback to that effect. Without feedback, it is hard to know whether members are doing well, or poorly, with the PJ clone dough formulations. However, this thread is one of the most popular on the forum in terms of page views, so we at least know that a lot of people are looking at it.

The direct link to Reply 31 is http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg60076.html#msg60076.

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #381 on: October 27, 2012, 07:45:24 AM »
Papa John's recently announced that Peyton Manning is becoming a Papa John's franchisee, with several planned store openings in the Denver area: http://www.restaurantnews.com/peyton-manning-scores-a-touchdown-as-newest-papa-johns-franchisee/?utm_source=October+27%2C+2012&utm_campaign=102712&utm_medium=email. We will perhaps be seeing Peyton wearing a Papa John's cap on the sidelines during games and when he is on camera :-D.

Peter

Offline Linux

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #382 on: November 04, 2012, 09:56:55 PM »
How would you covert IDY to ADY? Should I use the same amount as IDY listed here? More?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #383 on: November 04, 2012, 10:06:50 PM »
How would you covert IDY to ADY? Should I use the same amount as IDY listed here? More?


Linux,

To convert IDY to ADY, you increase the amount of IDY, by weight, by a third. Or you can use the yeast conversion table at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm. In using ADY, you should use a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F and rehydrate the ADY in that amount of water for about 10 minutes. The rehydrated ADY can then be added to the rest of the formula water.

Peter

Offline Linux

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #384 on: November 04, 2012, 11:00:09 PM »
Linux,

To convert IDY to ADY, you increase the amount of IDY, by weight, by a third. Or you can use the yeast conversion table at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm. In using ADY, you should use a small amount of the formula water at around 105 degrees F and rehydrate the ADY in that amount of water for about 10 minutes. The rehydrated ADY can then be added to the rest of the formula water.

Peter


Thanks, one last question. Does it make a huge difference if I use olive oil instead of vegetable oil?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #385 on: November 05, 2012, 06:33:30 AM »
Thanks, one last question. Does it make a huge difference if I use olive oil instead of vegetable oil?

Linux,

I have used soybean oil because that is what Papa John's uses. Olive oil has a more pronounced, robust flavor and, at around 7%, may be too much from a flavor standpoint for a PJ clone.

Peter

Offline sb 44 champs

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #386 on: November 21, 2012, 10:39:26 AM »
I read through this post and several others and wanted to know if I subbed 10-15% Semolina and changed the oil amt to Olive Oil (not EVOO) or Canola oil, what affect it would have on the dough.

I didn't see it in any of the replies and I apologize if I missed it.
Eddie

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #387 on: November 21, 2012, 11:22:06 AM »
I read through this post and several others and wanted to know if I subbed 10-15% Semolina and changed the oil amt to Olive Oil (not EVOO) or Canola oil, what affect it would have on the dough.

I didn't see it in any of the replies and I apologize if I missed it.


Eddie,

No, you did not miss anything. Since this thread was started to reverse engineer and clone the Papa John's original dough formulation, which does not include semolina or olive oil, I tried not to depart from that objective. However, that said, you should be able to substitute 10-15% semolina for some of your base flour. But because semolina has about 25% more fiber than a regular flour of the same protein content, you may want to increase the formula hydration by a percent or two. The finished dough may have a slightly yellower tinge and the finished crust may be texturally a bit different than if you used all regular flour (the crust might have a slightly coarser, chewier texture). I tried using semolina flour in an early clone of the Papa Gino's dough and described my results at Reply 79 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg71404.html#msg71404. So, I know it works and works well. But you don't want to go overboard on the semolina.

As for the use of olive oil, if it is a light olive oil with a mild flavor, I think you should be OK. The reason why olive oil is not used in this case is because the formula oil is very high, about 7%, and, at that value, the olive oil might impart too robust a flavor to the finished crust. Canola oil, on the other hand, is naturally mild and you should have no problem using it in lieu of the soybean oil. I used soybean oil in my PJ clone doughs because that is what PJ uses. In my experience, the main differences in the types of oil tends to be flavor, not so much the chemistry of the dough in which the oil is used. Even then, you have to get to some pretty high levels of oil to note the flavor contribution in the finished crust.

If you decide to attempt a version of the PJ clone dough with semolina and olive oil or canola oil, you might start a new thread to report on your results since what you end up with may no longer resemble a PJ crust.

Peter


Offline sb 44 champs

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #388 on: November 21, 2012, 02:22:17 PM »
Thanks Peter. I guess I should have started a new thread with those questions since I would be deviating from the original recipe.

Offline zelichan

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #389 on: December 19, 2012, 09:12:10 AM »
Made a Papa clone the other nite. It was epic!  :pizza:

(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll76/zelichan2008/IMG_2729_zpsd98458f0.jpg)

« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 09:13:57 AM by zelichan »


Offline mr_tripp

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #390 on: January 02, 2013, 12:45:49 AM »
Peter,

First off, thank you for all of your hard work and dedication.

I have been trying to make pizza for 10 years and have not been successful until now.  I made the 5 day dough a few months ago but had a bad experience.  I tried to freeze one, made a mess and ended up cracking my stone.  I gave up but I tried again and last night I made the 12 hour dough and it was amazing.  I misread the yeast of 0.03 tsp as 0.3 tsp.  I tripled the batch and ended up using 1 tsp.  As a home brewer I know a little about fermentation so I figured a cool fermentation in my cool basement would be better than the fridge or the kitchen.  I ended up folding the dough a few times but it worked out perfectly.  It stretched wonderfully and I don't know how to toss because I have never made a dough that worked out.  They always tear.  I also made bread sticks with garlic butter and took them to a party and someone swore I bought them.  I let one of the dough balls ferment for 18 hours and it was almost the size of a half basketball.  Curiosity got the best of me and I baked it as is (300 for 25min) and it made a wonderful bread bowl for a buffalo chicken dip.  

Anyway, thanks again for your help, I almost gave up making pizzas.

I do have a few questions:

1.  I am having a party and want to have a few skins ready.  My wife doesn't like the mess I make.  How can I make the skins before hand if I am using a cold dough.  Shape them and then put them back in the fridge? or let them come to room temp. first then shape them?

2.  I think I have read from other forums that you are not a fan of freezing, but have you tried or have any suggestions for freezing this dough for emergency purposes?  Thanks.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #391 on: January 02, 2013, 11:24:48 AM »
Anyway, thanks again for your help, I almost gave up making pizzas.

I do have a few questions:

1.  I am having a party and want to have a few skins ready.  My wife doesn't like the mess I make.  How can I make the skins before hand if I am using a cold dough.  Shape them and then put them back in the fridge? or let them come to room temp. first then shape them?

2.  I think I have read from other forums that you are not a fan of freezing, but have you tried or have any suggestions for freezing this dough for emergency purposes?  Thanks.

mr_tripp,

I'm glad that you achieved such good results. Your pizza looks very good. The PJ clone doughs, especially those that can be made in reasonably short periods of time (a few days or less), seem to be in that "sweet spot" that makes it easier for people to successfully navigate. Or else I am only hearing the success stories and not the failures.

With respect to your first question, my practice in the past when making several pizzas for a party has been to keep the dough balls in the refrigerator and remove them about 1-2 hours (depending on the room temperature) before planning to use them to make pizzas. I would then make the pizzas one at a time, knowing that the last dough ball used will still be in good shape (i.e., not overferment) for several hours (say, 3-4 hours). What Papa John's does when they know they are going to be slammed is to make the skins in advance, dock them like crazy, place them on pizza screens or disks, and stack them in racks pending orders. The problem with this approach is that the skins can sometimes overferment and result in less than optimum results. Also, the excessive docking leads to a less attractive pizza (the rims are riddled with holes that show up in the baked pizza). If you have no choice but to make the skins up in advance, I think I would form the skins, cover them very lightly with a film of oil to that the surface doesn't dry out, cover them in plastic wrap, and put into the refrigerator. You might even stack them separated with cardboard or parchment paper, and then cover the entire stack before refrigerating. They should be removed from the refrigerator about 1-2 hours before using and left to warm up at room temperature for that period of time before using. You will want to separate them from the stack so that they don't compress each other. If you have enough time to experiment using this approach before the party, that would be a good thing, just to be sure that it will work with your particular dough formulation and operating (kitchen) environment.

As for your second question, I have not tried freezing any of the PJ clone dough balls simply because PJ does not do that and I was trying in this thread to replicate PJ's methods as closely as possible. However, I have had a lot of experience playing around with frozen doughs and, in my opinion, it is a workable solution for those who would like to make several dough balls in advance and freeze them for later use. But, I think I would only use this method for PJ clone dough balls that contain a fair amount of yeast to begin with. I don't think I would freeze PJ clone dough balls with very small amounts of yeast. If you know in advance that you want to make and freeze several dough balls, the approach to use is to double to triple the normal amount of yeast to compensate for the fact that freezing kills some of the yeast. But, even then, I think I would do this only for the PJ clone doughs that have a fair amount of yeast to begin with to be sure that there will be enough yeast in the dough to sustain proper fermentation. Also, I would not freeze the dough balls for more than about two weeks. I would personally keep the freeze time period as short as possible. In preparation for using the frozen dough balls, they can be moved from the freezer compartment to the refrigerator compartment and allowed to defrost there for about a day. They can then be removed from the refrigerator and allowed to warm up at room temperature for an hour or two before using. The dough balls can also be defrosted at room temperature but the defrost time will depend on the actual room temperature.

If you decide to use any of the above methods, I'd like to hear back from you on your results since they may help others who would contemplate doing the same sorts of things.

Peter

Offline mr_tripp

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #392 on: January 02, 2013, 08:58:31 PM »


If you decide to use any of the above methods, I'd like to hear back from you on your results since they may help others who would contemplate doing the same sorts of things.


I made the 24 hour dough today and doubled the yeast.  I made 2 balls and put them in the freezer and I will try one next week and I'll let one sit for a month.  I'll make some fresh dough and do a side by side comparison.  I can't wait to report back.

On another note, do you have a few links to your non-PJ recipes and what is your favorite recipe...if that is possible.  I would love to try more.  Thanks

Dan

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #393 on: January 07, 2013, 02:57:22 PM »
On another note, do you have a few links to your non-PJ recipes and what is your favorite recipe...if that is possible.  I would love to try more.  Thanks


Dan,

Over the years, I have made many types of pizzas. Many of them were the result of reverse engineering and cloning projects, much as I discussed in this thread and the related PJ clone sauce thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.0.html. And, since I spent so much time in the weeds with the clones, I developed special attachments for them. Examples of pizzas that fall in that category, in no particular order, include those discussed in the Mellow Mushroom clone thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.0.html, the Papa Gino's clone thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.0.html, the Mack's clone thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.0.html, the Donatos clone thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2711.0.html, and the Monical's clone thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,600.0.html. There are others, but those should give you a start on other types of pizzas. You can also look at the forum's indexing system to find others that bear my fingerprints. In many of the clone threads, I worked with Norma, so you should also look at her recipes. She was the pilot with all of the right ingredients and the right brands and the right equipment; I was the navigator.

More recently, I have been working with Norma on a Buddy's Detroit-style clone that looks very promising. You can read about that project at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.0.html, along with the related Buddy's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.0.html.  Outside of the clones, I enjoyed the cracker style pizzas as discussed in the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5762.0.html, and also NY style pizzas as summarized at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1453.0.html. The reality is that I like just about all types of pizzas. Unfortunately, these days, I don't make pizzas like I used to, mainly because I spend most of my "pizza" time assisting other members and fulfilling my Moderator duties.

Peter

Offline JasonT

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #394 on: January 12, 2013, 11:48:23 AM »
Hey Pete,

Just another thank you post.

When I was back home over the holidays, I showed my uncle how to make the 2 day PJ clone. I made a batch and he wrote down all of the steps. Then I sat back and let him do everything.

We had the pizza three days later and both turned out exactly the same. My uncle was stoked and as excited as I ever saw him (he loves pizza as much as me).

He is going to show my dad and other uncle how to make the dough, because they are pizza freaks like us also.

Just wanted you to know your work is appreciated by us.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #395 on: January 12, 2013, 12:27:04 PM »
Jason,

Thank you for the feedback. It is always appreciated.

Peter

Offline alluree

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #396 on: February 12, 2013, 09:52:23 AM »
can i use this recipe with Cake yeast? in my state is very difficult to buy Active Dry Yeast.

see u

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #397 on: February 12, 2013, 10:24:45 AM »
can i use this recipe with Cake yeast? in my state is very difficult to buy Active Dry Yeast.
alluree,

Yes, you can use cake yeast. If the recipe you are following calls for using instant dry yeast (IDY), you should use cake yeast in an amount that is three times the weight of the IDY. If the recipe you are following calls for using active dry yeast (ADY), then you should use cake yeast in an amount that is two times the weight of the ADY. If you are making a commercial quantity of dough, then you will also need to make an adjustment to the formula hydration to compensate for the high water content of cake yeast. In a home setting with one or a few dough balls, the added water from the yeast is quite small and should have no material effect on the results you get.

The cake yeast can be crumbled directly into the flour. There is no need to prehydrate it in warm water, although that will also work.

Peter

Offline alluree

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #398 on: February 12, 2013, 05:58:59 PM »
ok if i use Cake Yeast , i have to mix de Cake Yeast with the water , or directly mix with de flour?

seeu

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #399 on: February 12, 2013, 06:10:50 PM »
ok if i use Cake Yeast , i have to mix de Cake Yeast with the water , or directly mix with de flour?

seeu

See the last sentence of my last post.

Peter