Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza

[alluree]

thanks pete.

[alluree]

I ve found ADY, for this recipe , is necessary to mix the ADY yeast before with water? or directly put the yeast with the flour and after add the mix ( yeast + flour ) to the water?

thanks

[Pete-zza]

I ve found ADY, for this recipe , is necessary to mix the ADY yeast before with water? or directly put the yeast with the flour and after add the mix ( yeast + flour ) to the water?

alluree,

If you are using ADY, you need to prehydrate it in warm water. To do this, you should take a small amount of the water called for in the recipe you are using and heat it to around 105 degrees F (40.6 degrees C). The rest of the water should be left unheated. You should then add the ADY to the warm water, stir to dissolve, and let it sit for about 10 minutes. It can then be added to the rest of the water (cool) and combined. The salt and sugar, if used, can be added and stirred into the unheated water before adding the prehydrated ADY or be added directly to the flour.

Peter

[alluree]

why use a little size of yeast for much flour? i ve seen recipes with 1.000gr aprox with 2gr of yeast , its incredible.

for all recipes , if i use CYeast , IDY or ADY , i do to calculate C.Yeast X3 , ADY X2 and IDY from original recipe.. no?


thanks , my english is very poor

[alluree]

yesterday made a dough and put in the fridge , i ve seen dough dont level up.. where is the problem? I mixed ADY with part of water hot , but if this water is very HOT , is a problem because temperture kills yeast effect no? now is the fridge over 15 hours

see

[Pete-zza]

alluree,

Can you tell me which Papa John's clone recipe you are using, and did you use water at around 41 degrees C to rehydrate the ADY?

Peter

[alluree]

im using the first recipe of this post , i havent a thermometer to measure the degrees , I put hot water with 0,40g ADY aprox 10 minutes and after mix rest of water cold with salt and oil.


edit : I ve found a thermometer for  measure the dregrees , when i have the water in 41C put the ADY and wait 10 minutes no?

[Pete-zza]

im using the first recipe of this post , i havent a thermometer to measure the degrees , I put hot water with 0,40g ADY aprox 10 minutes and after mix rest of water cold with salt and oil.


edit : I ve found a thermometer for  measure the dregrees , when i have the water in 41C put the ADY and wait 10 minutes no?

alluree,

Yes, when the temperature of the water is at about 41 degrees C, that is when you stir the ADY into the warm water and let it sit for about 10 minutes. With ADY, it is important that you use the correct water temperature. If the temperature is wrong, then the dough will not perform as well.

The recipe you used is intended to be used to make a Papa John's clone dough that will remain in the refrigerator for about 5 days. That is the reason why the amount of yeast is so small (0.14% IDY). Also, in your case, because you substituted ADY for IDY, you should have used about 0.19% ADY, which is about a third more than the IDY (by weight). If you used 0.14% ADY, you can expect the dough to last longer than even five days in the refrigerator.

If you go back to Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58197.html#msg58197, you will see that I described in detail how the dough would behave while in the refrigerator. Specifically, I described how the dough will not rise after only one day, or even several days. This is the paragraph where I described that part of the process:

The dough remained in the refrigerator for five days. During the first two days, there was little noticeable expansion of the dough. It is unlikely that the dough could have been used during that time, because of insufficient fermentation. On the third day, the dough started to expand, but slowly, and then appeared to level off in terms of its expansion. The dough was used after about five days, which was within the window of usability (3-8 days) that I believe applies to the dough balls used at PJ’s stores, as discussed in detail in Reply 1 in this thread. From the appearance and firmness of the dough to the touch, I believe that it could have lasted at least a couple days more, but at the risk of increased extensibility.

In other places in this thread, I showed several other recipes that can be used to make other versions of the Papa John's basic clone dough. In some cases, the dough is put into the refrigerator but in other cases, the dough is left at room temperature. Because of these differences, the amount of yeast will be different for each recipe. The recipe that you are trying is one of the hardest for people to make because there are so many places where things can go wrong if one is not careful in fofllowing the instructions or if one does not have the right ingredients or the right equipment or if certain changes are made. The recipe that seems to be one of the most popular of those I showed in this thread is the one at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217. That recipe calls for more yeast and the dough is ready to be used after about two days.

Peter

[alluree]

OK thanks , but i want to make a dough  for eating in a 1 o 2 days max , I usually put the dough over 24 hours  not 5 days.. In this case i have to put more yeast or I have to change de recipe? I want eat pizza  i can made a dough for next day not for a week in the fridge ( 24hours) where is the problem?.. Have I to put more yeast for 24h dough level up?. I put over 0.40 gms ADY for 150gms of flour.  W


see

[CDNpielover]

OK thanks , but i want to make a dough  for eating in a 1 o 2 days max , I usually put the dough over 24 hours  not 5 days.. In this case i have to put more yeast or I have to change de recipe? I wa wnt a recipe when i can made a dough for next day not for a week in the fridge.


see

Allure, Pete-zza has just (very patiently) answered this question -- in the post you are responding to!  If you are still confused, I recommend reading this entire thread, as it answers all of your questions and I think you'll leave with a better understanding.

[alluree]

my english is very poor , I prefer to concret questions but i understad u , sorry.

[CDNpielover]

my english is very poor , I prefer to concret questions but i understad u , sorry.

maybe try http://translate.google.com/

EDIT:  i'm not trying to be mean, but if you are asking a question in response to a comment that provides an answer, something isn't working.

[Pete-zza]

OK thanks , but i want to make a dough  for eating in a 1 o 2 days max , I usually put the dough over 24 hours  not 5 days.. In this case i have to put more yeast or I have to change de recipe? I want eat pizza  i can made a dough for next day not for a week in the fridge ( 24hours) where is the problem?.. Have I to put more yeast for 24h dough level up?. I put over 0.40 gms ADY for 150gms of flour.  

alluree,

I think the recipe you should use is the one at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217. That recipe was created to be specific to a two-day dough that is kept in the refrigerator. For that dough, you want to use (0.28% x 0.33) + 0.28% = 0.37% ADY. That is for about 355 grams of flour, and weighs 1.31 grams. Doughs that have longer fermentation times use less yeast than those that have shorter fermentation times, whether the doughs are fermented in the refrigerator or at room temperature.

The recipes in this thread are very specific. If you feel that you need more personal help, you might want to start a new thread in the American board where I can help you further rather than make this thread longer. Or, if you wish, I can split off the posts where you and I have had exchanges into a new thread.

Peter

[osipov.tima@gmail.com]

Pete, could you please explain the effects of using large amount of oil in your pj's clone recipe? Is it easy to work with when stretching the dough ball in to the skin?

[Pete-zza]

Pete, could you please explain the effects of using large amount of oil in your pj's clone recipe? Is it easy to work with when stretching the dough ball in to the skin?

Yes. The oil coats the strands of gluten so that they glide past each other and make the dough more extensible and easier to handle. You can read more about the role of oil in dough, and especially at high quantities, at Reply 130 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8341.msg75843/topicseen.html#msg75843.

Peter

[Leonard]

Hi from Romania, I have been following this thread for some time and I am very honored to be a member of this prestigious forum.
I started making pizzas with general recipes found on the internet and TV but was very disappointed, big chain pizza was like  an impossible dream to reach, until I found this resource full of great information.
My current recipe is this http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217 , what I use differently is the flour and instant yeast, in my country flour specifications are by protein, I think it's 13 grams for type 550, I also don't have any ascorbic acid to experiment but I will surely buy for my next batch of doughs.
My question is this, is it dangerous if I use 7 grams of IDY on 1000 grams of flour for a 3-6 days of cold rising ?
I have found this dough tastes bad if it isn't let to cold rise for at least 2-3 days, after that it's mouth watering, the taste and so crispy, it is amazing !!!
I used so much IDY because the package says so and now after I found it tastes sooo good I am afraid to change it, is this of any importance ?
I also found that rolling the dough with a roller pin kind of destroyes my oven spring for the outer crust, in one the pics I made a mini pizza hand made and I finally had a big crust.
My current oven is a Bestron DLD9016 1200W that says it goes to 450 Celsius, tried the pizza screen  and pizza stone in the oven preheated for an hour but I don't get anywhere near as good results like I do with this little oven.
I am also open to any suggestions of dough recipes and changes I might enjoy with my current setup.
Thank you for the great recipe Pete-zza.

[Pete-zza]

Leonard,

The dough recipe you used, at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59217.html#msg59217, calls for using bread flour. As best I can tell from researching the 550 flour that you are using, it is equivalent to all-purpose flour in the U.S., with a protein content of around 10-11%. Ideally, a better protein content for the Papa John's style of pizza is perhaps something around 13.5%. But, with the flour you are using, you should still be able to get a dough that can be used after two days of cold fermentation. I am not familiar with Romanian dry yeasts, but if your dry yeast is different than what is used in the U.S., it is possible that your dough needs a longer cold fermentation than two days. If you can tell me more about the Romanian yeast you are using, maybe I can study that information and give you my best advice.

To address your specific question about using 7 grams of IDY for 1000 grams of flour, that would have the effect of increasing the yeast quantity in the recipe you used from 0.28% to 0.79%. Assuming that the IDY in Romania is like IDY in the U.S., that would be a lot of yeast, far more than one would ordinarily want to use for a 3-6 day fermentation period, or even for only two days of cold fermentation. The dough would be likely to overferment and possibly be overly extensible and not usable after 3-6 days. The amount of yeast for the recipe you used was established for only two days of cold fermentation, although it might be usable a bit longer if needed.

Peter

[Leonard]

Thank you Pete-zza, I will change to a different flour and lower the IDY, I found this in Romania http://www.boromir.ro/shop/faina-industriala-5/faina-retail-24/faina-pizza-151.html wich sounds good from specs.
Now the dough is not the problem, my problem now is the sauce, I tried many versions from here and other places and they are good when I taste them alone but combined with the rest of the toppings,  they don't match.
Tried different types of mozzarella from different vendors and some burn, some taste like plastic and some taste good but become watery in the pizza.
Bought expensive  prosciutto di parma to do a  prosciutto e funghi pizza and turned good, but not good enough to beat the taste of big chain pizza like Pizza Hut.
For my net batch of pizza's I will try some MSG in the sauce and see what happens.
I know I am off-topic with this but my goal was never to make a papa john's pizza, I never even tasted one ( they don't have any restaurants in Romania ) but from what I heard is the best in America, I know people swear some independent pizzerias are better but I like the science behind these big chain pizza's that never fail to produce excellent taste.

[Akuma]

Hi,
may i know what's the spiky roller tool used for? i noticed he will roll it on the dough after he pressed out the ring.
thanks in advance for you answers.

[Pete-zza]

may i know what's the spiky roller tool used for? i noticed he will roll it on the dough after he pressed out the ring.
thanks in advance for you answers.

Akuma,

In the U.S., that device is called a dough docker. As I understand it, at Papa John's the use of the dough docker is specified for all of its doughs.

To get an idea as to how dough dockers are used, see this post: Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20742.msg206648/topicseen.html#msg206648.

Peter