Author Topic: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza  (Read 213542 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2009, 10:04:32 AM »
Thank you, Trin.

When I originally started this thread, the objective was to try to come as close to an authentic Papa John's pizza as possible, starting with a basic pepperoni pizza. So, that was the time that I bought pizzas from PJ's to be able to study them and to compare them with my own PJ clones. As you will see in Replies 2 and 3 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58197.html#msg58197, I reported on one such comparison, both with respect to fresh pizza slices and reheated slices. Subsequently, I bought other PJ pizzas mainly to fix more firmly in my mind the differerent features of the Papa John style so that I could better tweak later attempts at that style. Many of the subsequent PJ clones I made represented major changes from the way that I believe PJ makes its pizzas, but the objective with those variations was always to try to retain the PJ features, including the general "look and feel". The "look and feel" part is fairly easy to achieve, especially after several tries, but that doesn't mean that the pizzas will taste exactly like the real thing. However, that shouldn't be taken to mean that the pizzas wont be worthy. All the variations I made were quite good, including the two-hour emergency dough version that you liked. If the objective is to get parity, I would say that the PJ clone pizza described in Reply 2 comes the closest, followed by some of the same-day room temperature fermented versions. 

Peter


Offline Trinity

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 810
  • Extra cheese please!
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2009, 10:30:47 AM »
Thanks for the details. :)

 Really, Your pj pie sums up everything I love about pizza! :pizza:

Just give me that pie and all night off with my atari 2600... (misile command btw), And trin in heaven! :)
It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.

Offline Levi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
  • Location: VA
  • Too Much Pizza is a Good Thing!
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2009, 12:48:23 PM »
Pete,

Planning to give your revised 'emergency' dough from reply 57 a try this afternoon and I have a couple questions.  First, I plan on using a kitchen-aid mixer and would like to know, in general, what approach you would recommend with the mixer.  Secondly, I just noticed you are using IDY; if I am using ADY can I just add it to the flour.   As always - your advice is much appreciated!!

Thanks

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2009, 10:06:35 PM »
Levi,

Somehow I missed your post yesterday. Sorry about that.

If you will be using your KitchenAid stand mixer to make the dough using the dough formulation given in Reply 57 but using ADY instead of IDY, I would proceed as follows:

I would start by taking a small amount of the formula water--about an eighth of a cup--and heat to about 105 degrees F. You should then rehydrate the ADY in that water for about 10 minutes. While the ADY is rehydrating, you should sift the King Arthur bread flour into a bowl (a separate bowl, not the KitchenAid mixer bowl) and thoroughly stir in the vital wheat gluten (VWG). When the ADY has rehydrated (after 10 minutes), you should add the remaining formula water, but at about 115 degrees F, to the mixer bowl of your KitchenAid stand mixer. You can then add the honey to dissolve and then add the rehydrated ADY and the oil. With the flat beater attachment secured, you should then gradually add the flour/VWG mixture to the mixer bowl, a few tablespoons at a time, with the mixer operating at stir/1 speed. When the dough mass collects around the flat beater attachment and clears the sides of the bowl, about 1-2 minutes, you should switch from the flat beater attachment to the dough hook (mine is a C-hook). If the dough has not drawn in all of the flour/VWG mixture using the flat beater attachment, you may have to do a bit of hand kneading and/or use a bit of additional water. The dough should then be kneaded using the dough hook for about 5-6 minutes, at speed 2. Ideally, you want a finished dough temperature of around 85-90 degrees F, but that will depend mainly on your room temperature, the amount of heat added by your stand mixer, and how long it takes you to make the dough.

There is another thing to keep in mind. Since you are using ADY instead of IDY, you will need to adjust the dough formulation to reflect the use of the ADY. In your case, you will need to use 1.0664% ADY, which translates into about 1 1/8 teaspoon of ADY. You may also discover that you end up with a bit more dough because of the fact that the dough formulation in Reply 57 uses a bowl residue compensation of 2%. That is a value that I often recommend for hand kneaded dough. Usually, I would use 1.5% for a dough to be kneaded by a KitchenAid stand mixer. Using that value, the dough formulation would be modified to look like this:

King Arthur Bread Flour/VWG Blend (100%):
Water (57.5%):
ADY (1.0664%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):
Honey (5%):
Total (172.6164%):
366.74 g  |  12.94 oz | 0.81 lbs
210.88 g  |  7.44 oz | 0.46 lbs
3.91 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.03 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
6.42 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.15 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
26.77 g | 0.94 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.89 tsp | 1.96 tbsp
18.34 g | 0.65 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.62 tsp | 0.87 tbsp
633.06 g | 22.33 oz | 1.4 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The formulation is for 22 oz. of dough for a 14” pizza with a nominal thickness factor of 0.14291 and a bowl residue compensation of 1.5%

I will leave to you to decide whether to simply switch from IDY to ADY in the Reply 57 formulation or use the modified dough formulation. There shouldn't be much difference in the finished dough.

Good luck. I hope you will report back with your results.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 12:48:55 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Marchetto

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1
  • Age: 42
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2009, 04:59:35 PM »
Hello Peter,

I have an old family recipe that is very close to your´s Papa John's Clone. This recipe was from my grandfather, he was born in Venice. It has 7,5% of oil, but no sugar. I´m going to try your´s to see the difference.

Thank´s for sharing

Marchetto

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2009, 07:36:53 PM »
I recently found a pdf document that includes what appears to be the nutrition information for all of the PJ menu items, at http://www.papajohns.com/menu/pdf/PJ_nutri_info.pdf. Most of that information also appears at the PJ website. As before, nutrition information for several of the PJ pizzas can also be found on an individual basis at the nutritiondata.com website. The latest listing of such pizzas is at http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-papa%20john%27s000000000000000000000.html.

Peter

EDIT (9/10/13): For the Wayback Machine link to the above PJ PDF document, see http://web.archive.org/web/20080908161925/http://www.papajohns.com/menu/pdf/PJ_nutri_info.pdf; for the latest listing of the PJ pizzas at the Nutritiondata.self.com, see http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-papa%20john%27s000000000000000000000.html
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 12:38:29 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline widespreadpizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1216
  • Location: NH
    • my beer store opening in june 2011
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2009, 09:00:23 PM »
Peter,  it has been a while since i stepped outside the NY elite and neapaolitan pizza arenas,  and I felt I was due to change it up a little,  or a lot as it ended up.  I was searching through some of the thin crust sections and decided since I still don't have a cutter pan to stay away for now.  I looked at deep dish and decided that my 15 inch pan made just too much deep dish for me and my wife.  After a while I decided to give your PJ recipie a shot.  I was craving pizza last night,  so I scaled up your 12 hour recipie to fit my 19 inch screen, which just barely fits in my conventional home oven,  and made the dough at 7:30 this morning.  Also I had all the ingredients on hand or at least good substitutions.  The major substitutions were using a blend of un/un all trumps and KAAP at a rate of 50/50 to try and hit a bread flour strength,  wal mart great value tomatoes,  and using grande part skim.  Anyhow,  the dough proofed up perfectly by 8:00 when I made the pizza,  and everything else came together very nicely.  I used to have a pj near me,  but it closed several years ago due to poor management.  At the time when it did it was definately the family choice over ph and dominoes when ordering delivey from the big three.  Needless to say this brought back memories of the pizza.  It is a very sweet pizza,  and I do remember that.  Ironicly,  I saw a pj commercial advertising thier XL pizza today just about in the middle of my dough proofing up.  I thought you might appreciate a couple pictures,  so here they are.  Also,  the therapy has seemed to work, as I am already thinking about my dough formulation for this weekends experiments.  Great job on the recipie,  I think that it should be added to the recipie page.  thanks  -marc

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2009, 09:35:01 PM »
Marc,

Wow!! A 19" Papa John's clone cheese pizza!! That is colossal and impressive. If you scaled everything up proportionally, that would mean a pizza weight of around 3.8 pounds. That should be enough to satisfy a pizza "craving".

Sometime you should try a long, cold fermentation. The 12-hour dough fits the clock well but the several-day dough will produce a finished crust that is even closer to a real PJ pizza crust.

Nice job. Thanks for trying the recipe and for posting your results.

Peter

Offline smarttowers

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 95
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2009, 02:03:29 AM »
Quote
Giotto,

You are correct about the Lehmann recipe.  I have been operating within the constraints of the recipe, since it is that recipe that Steve is considering adding to the site.  If I depart too much from the recipe, then it is no longer Tom Lehmann's recipe and it becomes something else--whatever that is.  That's no reason not to try to improve the recipe, since that is what this forum is all about, and your recent comments offer some promise in that regard.  As you know, I have long been an advocate of using small amounts of yeast and cooler water temperatures, but that doesn't stop me from being open to any other possibilities.  In the final analysis, what really matters is not some slavish devotion to some concept of physics or chemistry that might appeal to me on an intellectual level, but what does the pizza look and taste like?  I'll always go with the taste before the chemistry and physics--maybe begrudgingly--but that is where I will go.  It's in my nature to play the devil's advocate and try to get others to defend their positions, but my ultimate objective is to get the best pizza possible.

You mentioned Canadave.  As you will note if you go to the New York Style Dough, etc. thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/yabbse/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=389;start=120, I made a dough following Canadave's recipe. Apart from the amount of sugar his recipe calls for, which is a strictly a matter of personal taste (I just happen not to like a lot of sugar in pizza doughs), his recipe, which calls for a much larger amount of yeast than I normally use, produced a highly exceptional pizza, much like the pizza reported at the top of this thread but without the sugar (which is optional in the Lehmann recipe, about 1-2% according to other information at the PMQ site).  As you point out, Canadave also uses cool tap water and, as you do, he also uses a metal container for more quickly cooling down his dough while in the refrigerator.  That idea personally appeals to me, especially since a refrigerator in the usual home setting has a higher operating temperature than a commercial cooler.  Using a metal container is easy enough to do, so even if I am wrong, it doesn't cause any harm that I can tell.

As for exploring what local professionals do in my area, I have perhaps been remiss in not doing more.  In part, this has been because the professionals use ingredients that I can't easily get myself, so showing me what I am missing doesn't particularly lift my spirits.  And I have been making pizzas for myself for so long that it has been literally years since I last had a pizza from ANY pizzeria.  And, like DKM, I am not into idolatry or particularly anxious to try to replicate pizzas from any of the majors, whether it is Domino's, Pizza Hut, Papa John's, Malnati's, or Gino's or anyone else.  To me, that's a fool's errand, since they operate under a different set of rules than I do, and I don't sense from what I have read or heard that their pizzas are worth copying anyway.  On this score, I would rather look at what the locals do, as I believe you are suggesting anyway, and, to this end, I am planning to do more with that when I am on vacation later this month in Massachusetts, where a close friend, fully aware of my interest in pizza, wants to take me to his favorite pizza place to spend some time with the pizza maker.   I am looking forward to that and hoping it materializes.

Peter


Ok Peter I gotta ask, you said specifically you wouldn't want to do a "fools errand" and try to recreate a major pizza place's dough, so was your change in mind because you got bored or due to overwhelming demand for a clone?

Just thought it was funny when I ran across the post on the Lehmann's thread. And yes I know this was about 5 years ago you made the post.

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2009, 11:25:52 AM »
smarttowers,

I guess that you could say that, in the political vernacular, I am a “flip flopper”. Or that I was “younger” and more foolish then and had no idea of what I was talking about. Or that the skies opened up and there was an epiphany that transformed me. But, there were several, more mundane, reasons for the transformation.

First, was the demand of our members for clones. If you look at the threads on the forum that have the most page views, you will see that there are a great many that relate to the pizzas made by the big chains, including the big four, and many smaller regional chains. Since these are the chains that people know most and best and for whom they have strong loyalty and attachments, often going back to earlier times and places, it would be natural to want to try to replicate their pizzas in a home setting. So, we get a lot of requests for clone dough recipes.

But it is doubtful that I would have reverse engineered a chain pizza or attempted to make a clone solely for my own purposes. I don’t consider myself a pizza snob but at the time I wrote what you quoted I did not have any particular affinity for the pizzas of the chains. The “tipping point” for me was that I like to be challenged. I also like to learn new things and to apply what I learn in new situations. And I am willing and prepared to put in the time and effort to get the job done. I might end up failing, but the thought of failure is almost never a deterrent. To the extent that I succeed and others benefit from what I have done, I view it as a win-win situation. You will also notice that I did not stop this thread at Reply 2, after I posted the dough formulation that represented my best efforts at cloning the Papa John’s dough. I went on to make many other versions, none of which are offered by Papa John’s itself. It turns out that some of those versions are the most popular among our members.

In making the clones, as part of the intellectual challenge I wanted to see how far I could take the process using only publicly available information. Five years ago, that would have been quite difficult because much of the information on the products of major companies was not readily available, and many were private companies, which are the hardest companies to research. But, because of the Internet and government regulations and an increased interest and concern about foods and their nutritional value, there is much more information available today about the products of the chains and the ingredients that go into them. We, as members, also have greater access to the types of products (and, in some cases, the exact products) used by the chains in their operations. So, replicating pizzas in a fairly authentic way is a greater reality today than five years ago. But, that doesn’t mean that it is easy to reverse engineer products and make clones. It is hard, tedious and often boring work, and a lonely process. I have a notebook on everything I have done with the Papa John’s clones and it is up to 80 pages.

I will confess that there is a certain folly and futility to reverse engineering the pizza products of others. Dough formulations change over time, ingredients and suppliers change with regularity, and new people, equipment and processes are constantly being introduced. For example, Pizza Hut has gone to frozen pizza dough products in the U.S. and in several other countries, and outsources other pizza products. These products are pretty much out of the realm of reverse engineering by home pizza makers because of the general unavailability of the many chemicals, additives and conditioners used to make frozen dough. Also, fewer and fewer companies are making on-premises dough. Like Papa John’s, more and more companies are using commissaries, with dough formulations that are designed for commissary production and transportation logistics. Trans fats are being routinely eliminated from dough formulations. It looks like salt (sodium) and sugar are being targeted for reduction. Usually the changes are made gradually, so that customers don’t notice the changes. I recently saw that Papa John’s issued new nutrition information for many of its pizzas. I did a comparison with the previous nutrition information and the differences suggest that PJ’s either improved upon their nutrition tests and results or they have reduced the weights of some pizzas.

Peter


Offline eric22

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 98
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #70 on: June 18, 2009, 03:47:53 AM »
 >:D

best posted topic ever!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #71 on: June 18, 2009, 08:48:37 AM »
eric22,

Thank you.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21269
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #72 on: June 18, 2009, 03:55:58 PM »
Peter,
I haven't looked under American style much until today.  Your clone of Papa John's pizza look great.  You really did a good job of cloning this pizza.  I think I am going to try this recipe.  Your pizza look so inviting to try a slice.   
Great investigating!
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21269
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #73 on: June 18, 2009, 11:43:51 PM »
Peter,
After reading your whole thread about Papa John's clone formulation, I became very interested in trying this.  Instead of trying my other trial formulation Friday, I am going to try this to see what happens.  I will not be using KABF because I only have King Arthur. Since that flour is bromated, I don't know if that will make a difference. I am going to use olive oil in place of the Soybean Oil.  I calculated using a thickness factor of .10 to see what will happen with that.  I also put in the calculation that I will be making a 15" pizza for 6 balls.  I also put in the calculator I am using Morton's salt. 
I do have a flat beater that came with my mixer, so I will follow your direction for mixing the dough.  Then I will shift to my other dough hook.  I will look for a finished dough temperature of 78 degrees, which hopefully I will achieve.  I am going to drill a hole in the lid to compensate for condensation to see if that helps, too.
I will make notes of the room temperature, flour temperature, water temperature and see how this works.
I will mix the Dustinator flour you described, but will be using olive oil.  Maybe if this experiment works out next week I will try a higher hydration.  I would like to see a larger and more puffier crumb.
This is what the calculator came up with.

Flour (100%):    1789.55 g  |  63.12 oz | 3.95 lbs
Water (56.5%):    1011.1 g  |  35.66 oz | 2.23 lbs
IDY (.14%):    2.51 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.83 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):    31.32 g | 1.1 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.52 tsp | 2.17 tbsp
Oil (7.3%):    130.64 g | 4.61 oz | 0.29 lbs | 9.68 tbsp | 0.6 cups
Sugar (4.8%):    85.9 g | 3.03 oz | 0.19 lbs | 7.18 tbsp | 0.45 cups
Total (170.49%):   3051 g | 107.62 oz | 6.73 lbs | TF = 0.1015
Single Ball:   508.5 g | 17.94 oz | 1.12 lbs

I will post on this thread next week what happens.
Thanks for all the work that went into this post!
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2009, 07:01:51 AM »
Norma,

I believe that you meant to say that you will be using the bromated All Trumps high-gluten flour rather than the KABF, which is not bromated. The All Trumps should work but you may need just a bit more hydration.

With your commercial mixer, you may not need to use the flat beater attachment. In my case with my basic KitchenAid stand mixer, I found the combination of flat beater attachment and the C-hook to be a particularly useful one. It is a combination that I use for many other doughs also simply because it does a better job than using the C-hook alone.

Unless you use a light olive oil, like a Classico olive oil (mine comes in a bottle with a yellow label), you may find that the more robust olive oil flavor is too powerful a flavor for the finished crust. This is something that the members who make Chicago-style doughs, which can also contain high levels of oil, have discovered and commented upon.

If you use a thickness factor of 0.10, you will get a "thin" version of the PJ clone pizza. I experimented with "thin" versions of Randy's American style pizza, which is his "clone" of the PJ pizza, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1707.0.html, so you may find that your pizzas look more like the ones shown in that thread than in this thread. For example, see Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1707.msg15953.html#msg15953, where I used a thickness factor of 0.10.

An important point to keep in mind is that the PJ pizzas--and my clones as well--are baked on pizza screens, not on a pizza stone. This is because the high sugar content in the doughs can lead to excessive bottom crust browning and even blackening if the pizzas are baked directly on a pizza stone.

On the matter of using a higher hydration, which I did by the way with Randy's thin PJ clone pizzas, you may find that the rims are not materially higher and puffier. At least that has been my experience. I believe that it is the combination of high sugar and oil levels that restrains some of the dough expansion and finished crust height.

Good luck with your experiment.

Peter


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21269
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2009, 01:08:49 AM »
Peter,
Yes, that is what I meant that my All Trumps is bromated.
I made the trial batch before I saw your post, so I didn't increase the hydration for this week's trail batch.
I did use the flat beater, then the hook.  I use Filippo Berio Extra Light Olive Oil in all my doughs, so that should be okay.
Your version of Randy's American looks amazing.  If only I can get my pizza to that level someday.... :D
And yes, I did measure my pizza screens and they are 15".  Since I am already using screens for my pizzas and then taking them off the screen for about the last 35-45 seconds, is that what I should still do with the PJ's clone?
I wanted to try your PJ's clone because of the longer fermentation time and to see what another type of pizza tastes like, but to keep it thin.
I did measure my temperatures today and my room temperature was 68 degrees, flour temperature 70 degrees, water temperature 63 degrees, deli case 38 degrees, and finished dough temperature 78 degrees.  I let the cover off for 2 1/2 hours. 
I just tried to post two pictures of the dough, but I had to write this over, so I am going to do two posts.
I will let you know how the pizza turns out Tuesday.
Thanks, Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21269
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2009, 01:19:36 AM »
Peter,
Finished dough.  It really seemed silky.
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Jose L. Piedra

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 364
  • Location: Montreal, QC
  • Ebeddu e cavuru, e beddu davveru!
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2009, 09:57:14 AM »
Unless you use a light olive oil, like a Classico olive oil (mine comes in a bottle with a yellow label), you may find that the more robust olive oil flavor is too powerful a flavor for the finished crust. This is something that the members who make Chicago-style doughs, which can also contain high levels of oil, have discovered and commented upon.

For what it's worth, I've recently made several pizzas using 4-5 % EVO. It has a dramatic impact on the flavour of the finished crust (you can really taste it there). Whether or not this is a good thing is a matter of taste, of course, but anyone thinking of using lots of heavy olive oil in a pizza crust should be advised that a) the results will be anything but subtle, and b) will be markedly different in taste from the typical North American pizzeria pie (Sicilian-type pizzas excluded). It also strikes me that the EVO affects the texture of the dough, but on the other hand I've been adjusting all my recipes lately and so can't say for sure. Finally, anyone who's looking for a neutral oil might want to look into grapeseed oil, which for all practical purposes is entirely tasteless.

-JLP
Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21748
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2009, 10:07:39 AM »
Since I am already using screens for my pizzas and then taking them off the screen for about the last 35-45 seconds, is that what I should still do with the PJ's clone?

Norma,

You might try both methods, screen only and "decking" the pizza at the end of the bake, as you have been doing with your NY style. That way, you can compare the two results, especially the extent and acceptability of the bottom crust browning. You might also try doubling up on the screens and baking on your deck. The two screens might lift the pizza just high enough from the stone surface to prevent the bottom crust from browning too much or burning.

Randy's American style dough is a very good one, whether thin or otherwise, although Randy's original recipe is closer to the Papa John's style. Sometime I will have to try Randy's original recipe again just to compare it with the PJ clones I have been making. I'd love to hear back from any members who have made both and get their comments and observations, good or bad.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21269
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Pete-zza's Papa John's Clone Pizza
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2009, 10:28:03 AM »
JLP,
Thank you for your post on how more olive oil will affect the tasted of the crust.  I have been using the basic Tom Lehmann's recipe for NY Style pizza and trying different adjustments for making a longer fermentation than one day.  Then I saw Peter's post about the PJ's clone and decided to try it.  My olive oil I am using is very mild.  I will see what the higher EVO will have on the finished crust and post the results.
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


 

pizzapan