Author Topic: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza  (Read 9655 times)

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Offline ELittle

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Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« on: June 17, 2008, 06:55:13 PM »
Hello. I am new here, and Ive spent a lot of time looking at this site. There is a ton of recipes here for thick crust, and if I make them all I wont fit into my pants anymore (I hardly do now) :) What im looking for is a nice thick crust about 1.25 inches in thickness that is very chewy, maybe even a little doughy, with a little less of a regular bread texture, Id be interested in more of a sourdough bread kind of texture. Any ideas would be great! thanks.   :chef:


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2008, 06:58:47 PM »
ELittle,

Are you thinking about a pan pizza, like Pizza Hut produces? And what size pizza do you have in mind?

Peter

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2008, 07:36:35 PM »
Ive never had a pizza hut pizza! I worked at round table though for a few years, and little caesars and red boy for a short time,  and im after something like round table has but thicker with the same chew. Im looking for about a 14" pie, since thats the only size of deep dish pizza pan I have. Id be guessing pizza hut might be along the same lines as little caesars though? If so, maybe not as much oil but along those lines but thicker. If that makes sense.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 08:10:54 PM »
ELittle,

It sounds like you are after a Pizza Hut style pan pizza but with a crust that is chewier. If that sounds right, you might want to take a look at this Pizza Hut clone pan pizza dough recipe at the forum's Recipe section at http://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php. If that recipe is of interest to you, I would leave out the powdered dry milk and the sugar in order to reduce the bread-like crumb texture and the softness/tenderness of the finished crumb. You will note that the recipe makes enough dough to fill a pan to about 1 1/2". To achieve this height, you will have to proof the dough in the pan, as called for by the instructions for the recipe.

In order to get a more chewy crust texture, there are a few ways you can go. You can use a high-gluten flour (along with a somewhat higher hydration), bread flour supplemented with vital wheat gluten (VWG), or a combination of bread flour and semolina flour, with the semolina flour replacing about 15% of the total formula flour (by weight).

I have been researching Pizza Hut's pan pizza recently and have discovered that the pan pizza doughs they are now using in their stores are delivered to the stores frozen. I have also seen the ingredients list for the frozen pan pizza doughs, and the ingredients have changed from the original dough formulation. I have gotten the impression that the pizzas made from the frozen doughs are not nearly as good as the pizzas that were made using the original dough recipe. The PH clone dough recipe referenced above is more like the original PH pan pizza dough.

If you can provide more detail on how you would like to proceed, including what ingredients you have available to you and would like to use, maybe we can frame a dough recipe for you to experiment with. If you decide to go the VWG route, please indicate which brands of bread flour and VWG you would be using.

Peter


Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 01:37:00 AM »
This sounds like a good starting point. I think I would try leaving out the powdered milk though like you suggested to try and make the crust a little more "doughy". I have a lot of free time on my hands for a couple months so I might try several variations of the recipe. I am pretty much able to find most ingredients, so I will try the VWG route also with a few types of flour.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 09:56:12 AM »
ELittle,

I took the basic PH clone dough recipe at http://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php and modified it to eliminate the powdered milk and sugar. While I was at it, I converted the ADY to IDY since that is the form of yeast you seem to be using. The IDY doesn't require any rehydration in warm water so you can simply add it to the flour. Finally, I used a bowl residue compensation factor of 1.5%--to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough. Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, together with the specific conversion data used in that tool, I ended up with the following dough formulation:

Flour (100%):
Water (55.5555%):
IDY (0.90%):
Salt (0.875%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (4.27199%):
Total (161.60249%):
647.44 g  |  22.84 oz | 1.43 lbs
359.69 g  |  12.69 oz | 0.79 lbs
5.83 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.93 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
5.67 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
27.66 g | 0.98 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.09 tsp | 2.03 tbsp
1046.28 g | 36.91 oz | 2.31 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The flour is bread flour; the bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

The above formulation will produce a final dough weight that is a bit less than the original dough weight produced by the original clone dough formulation, but it is only about an ounce or so less and, hence, nothing to be concerned about.

In due course, as you conduct your experiments, you may decide on possible changes that you would like to incorporate into the recipe. For example, you may decide that you would like to add some sugar to the dough or reduce the amount of oil or use a combination of flours/VWG/semolina. These changes are easy enough to make once you are ready to incorporate such changes.

I might add that some members have mentioned that they felt that the original PH clone dough formulation produced too much dough (about 37.4 ounces). As a frame of reference, PH uses 16 ounces of dough for a 12" pan pizza and 22 ounces of dough for a 14" pan pizza. If you conclude that roughly 36 ounces of dough is too much for your needs, it is a simple enough exercise to use the expanded dough calculating tool to recalculate the numbers for a smaller dough weight. I can help you with this if you wish.

Another possibility that you might consider if you are in an experimenting mood is to start with a clean sheet of paper and design a dough formulation from scratch. One possible PH clone pan pizza formulation that I have been considering, for a pan pizza using a 14" pan, also with a bowl residue compensation factor of 1.5%, is the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (0.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (4%):
Honey (1.6%):
Total (165.85%):
277.6 g  |  9.79 oz | 0.61 lbs
161.01 g  |  5.68 oz | 0.35 lbs
1.39 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.46 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
4.86 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
11.1 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.44 tsp | 0.81 tbsp
4.44 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.64 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
460.4 g | 16.24 oz | 1.01 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

As you will note, the amount of dough (16 ounces before applying the bowl residue compensation) is considerably less than when using the PH clone dough formulation but in line with what PH uses. In my case, I would be using all-purpose or bread flour and I would also be incorporating a dairy blend comprising sweet dairy whey, dried milk powder and dried buttermilk powder, all baker's grade, for the purpose of getting good crust color and also the classical soft and tender characteristic of the crust and crumb for the original PH pan pizza. This is the dairy blend (or one form of which) that PH used at one time for its pan pizza dough before it went to frozen dough with a different formulation. As called for by the PH clone dough recipe posted on the forum, most members have used dried milk powder, which is more readily available than the dairy blend mentioned above. In your case, you should get a more chewy crust by not using any of the dairy products. As with the last formulation, it is easy enough to modifiy the alternative formulation based on your results.

In the above alternative formulation, I have listed honey as one of the ingredients, but it is easy enough to substitute sugar if you would like. I would use the honey as a substitute for fructose and corn syrup solids that PH used to use for its original pan pizza dough. For preparation of the dough, I would perhaps use the instructions given by a poster "Deep", a former PH employee, on September 4, 2006, at http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/172/Pan-Pizza/, except that I might go for an overnight cold fermentation of the dough for better flavor development. There has been a lot of debate, both on the forum and elsewhere on the Internet, on the amount of oil to use in the pan, but I would add enough to be sure that the bottom of the pan is amply covered. If you want the classic PH "fried" effect for the bottom of the crust, then you can use more oil.

Good luck with your experimenting. I hope you will keep us informed of your progress.

Peter

« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 01:22:25 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 03:53:11 PM »
wow, thanks! I will more than likely make pizza both nights this weekend, so I will keep you updated with photos. Thanks for all the help!  :)

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2008, 03:04:03 PM »
It doesnt look like ill be trying this this weekend. We are in a heat wave and it was 107 yesterday and should be close to that again today. Since I have no AC i cant run the oven or i might die. :) Maybe next weekend....

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2008, 03:39:52 PM »
It doesnt look like ill be trying this this weekend. We are in a heat wave and it was 107 yesterday and should be close to that again today. Since I have no AC i cant run the oven or i might die. :) Maybe next weekend....

ELittle,

I fully understand. I was thinking about trying out an experimental clone of a Pizza Hut pan pizza, using either the original version, or a variation before PH went to frozen doughs. But, because it has been so hot here in Texas, with temperatures pretty much in the 90's for the past few weeks, I decided that I did not want to turn on my oven, particularly since I was planning on baking the pizza on a preheated pizza stone.

Peter

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2008, 05:18:43 PM »
Since it has cooled off a lot today, I decided to try out this version of the Pizza Hut pan pizza recipe that was reformulated by Pete-zza to be more "chewy":

Flour (100%):
Water (55.5555%):
IDY (0.90%):
Salt (0.875%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (4.27199%):
Total (161.60249%):
   647.44 g  |  22.84 oz | 1.43 lbs
359.69 g  |  12.69 oz | 0.79 lbs
5.83 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.93 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
5.67 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
27.66 g | 0.98 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.09 tsp | 2.03 tbsp
1046.28 g | 36.91 oz | 2.31 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The flour is bread flour; the bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

I will post results as well as pictures and a step by step process of how I made the dough and cooked it later tonight.  ;D


Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2008, 05:20:39 PM »
Oops, the formatting from the cut and paste didn't quite work...

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2008, 07:17:19 PM »
ELittle,

I want to remind you that if you look at the instructions at http://www.pizzamaking.com/panpizza.php, you will see that it isn't necessary to use the entire amount of dough for one pizza. It's up to you. However, as previously noted, Pizza Hut uses 16 ounces of dough for the 12" pan pizza and 22 ounces of dough for the 14" pizza.

As for the dough formulation itself, it is better to use the Copy feature of the expanded dough calculating tool itself. I entered 36.36057 ounces as the desired dough weight and 1.5% as the bowl residue factor (along with the baker's percents). That yields:

Flour (100%):
Water (55.5555%):
IDY (0.90%):
Salt (0.875%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (4.27199%):
Total (161.60249%):
647.44 g  |  22.84 oz | 1.43 lbs
359.69 g  |  12.69 oz | 0.79 lbs
5.83 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.93 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
5.67 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
27.66 g | 0.98 oz | 0.06 lbs | 6.09 tsp | 2.03 tbsp
1046.28 g | 36.91 oz | 2.31 lbs | TF = N/A

Peter

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2008, 08:54:27 PM »
Hey Pete, yeah I used exactly your last posted formulation. It turned out AWESOME!  ;D The crust was slightly crisp, very chewy, and very thick and pan like.

When the dough came out of the mixer bowl, it was a solid mass that almost didnt stick at all to the bowl and was very elastic. I used a rolling pin to stretch it out to 14" or so,  and put it in my pan. I lost my traditional deep dish pan, so I had to use my "round table style" pan with a small lip on it, which actually ended up working quite well.

I cooked the pizza for 16 minutes at 500 degrees in the pan and removed it, and as you can se from the pictures it turned out quite well. I t was super filled and very chewy and was a great pizza for only needed about 6 hours prep time. I will definitely make it again! Thanks for the help.

-Evan

http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i220/jpxnoonan/?action=view&current=da142440.jpg

The whole pizza is documented at this photo bucket site for people who are interested. If I can answer any questions please ask! Thanks!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2008, 09:28:44 PM »
Evan,

I'm glad to see that everything worked out well for you. From the photos, it looks like you ended up with a nice pizza--one that would go well with a few beers.

I have a few questions. Can you tell me what brand and type of flour you ended up using, whether you used all of the dough (around 37 ounces), and what set of instructions you used to make the dough and pizza? Also, what size and depth is your pan, and did you let the dough proof in that pan? I noticed also that your skin appeared to have a nicely formed rim. Was that a natural rim or did you shape it that way? Finally, how much oil did you put in the pan?

Peter

« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 09:35:58 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2008, 10:26:43 PM »
Evan,

I'm glad to see that everything worked out well for you. From the photos, it looks like you ended up with a nice pizza--one that would go well with a few beers.

I have a few questions. Can you tell me what brand and type of flour you ended up using, whether you used all of the dough (around 37 ounces), and what set of instructions you used to make the dough and pizza? Also, what size and depth is your pan, and did you let the dough proof in that pan? I noticed also that your skin appeared to have a nicely formed rim. Was that a natural rim or did you shape it that way? Finally, how much oil did you put in the pan?

Peter

I used KAAL flour, which I've had good results with so far for everything else.  I did use all of the dough for the one 14" pie, which might have been too much for some people, but personally I thought it was fine. 2 slices of this pizza and you are good to go!(but I ate like 5 :D)
My pan is 14" x .5", and i spread it our over the pan and shaped the lip you see on it to be equal the whole way around. Thats how we did it at round table and it seemed like it would work well so I tried it this time also since I couldn't find the other pan. I also let the dough proof in that pan for 1 hour on the counter covered, then 4 hours covered in the fridge. Overall it turned out awesome!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2008, 10:46:15 PM »
Evan,

It sounds like you handled the dough the same way that many Pizza Hut stores used to do it before they went to frozen dough. Even with frozen dough the procedures are quite similar once the dough is allowed to slack out. In both cases, the skins are allowed to proof in a proofing unit at around 95-100 degrees F, with humidity.

You didn't say how much oil you used in the pan. I have heard so many different amounts that I would like to get a better feel for what works best. One of our members, Laura, recently mentioned at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6040.msg51761.html#msg51761 that she used four ounces and that using less did not produce the desired bottom crust browning, or that "fried" effect that is characteristic of the PH pan style.

BTW, is KAAL King Arthur all-purpose flour?

Peter

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2008, 11:11:34 PM »
Yes, King Arthur All Purpose flour. And I used no oil since the pan I used has holes in it like a screen does, so I had to use non stick spray. It didnt have that fried texture, but more like a bread texture.

Offline ELittle

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Re: Looking for a recipe for thick pizza
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2008, 08:20:19 PM »
I know this isnt a pizza, but i'm trying to use this recipe for a calzone tonight. I cut the recipe exactly in half and added a half a tablespoon of sugar. Ill post more details later if anyone would like to know how it turns out. :)


 

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