Author Topic: 2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)  (Read 2659 times)

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shacke

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2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« on: December 02, 2004, 07:08:11 PM »
OK so I trusted Pete's math and went for 10 oz dough for my pans and I think that is the correct amount.  I have attached pics along with questions for the group.  First, I think the sides are still pretty thick and the bottom was razor thin so I think I will try and even it out and see how that works.  I still have one more to pan and bake tonight.  Hope to update this tomorrow.  Other issue is the innards sliiiiiding out of the pizza when cut.  I dont remember this occurring with pizza I have had in Chicago.  What makes them do that?  They cooled for about 10 minutes - any ideas?

Also, the oil was hard to incorporate after the dough was formed.  Isnt it easier to add the oil before it really takes shape?  I had to help it along by hand.  The dough was fairly oily after mixing(normal?).  Lastly, it is yellower than in DKM's photos.  Is it the type of cornmeal.  With 20% cornmeal, I would expect it to take on its color.

Sorry such a long post.  Everything tasted great although I think I would like to try a recipe with some shortening for a flaky texture.  My wife and I have differing tastes in this respect.

Evan
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 07:09:43 PM by shacke »


shacke

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2004, 07:10:16 PM »
pic 2
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 07:10:31 PM by shacke »

shacke

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2004, 07:10:52 PM »
pic 3 - mudslide!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 07:11:07 PM by shacke »

Online Pete-zza

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2004, 10:40:11 PM »
Evan,

When I made the last deep-dish pizza, a "lite" version of DKM's recipe (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/yabbse/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=638;start=0), I strained the 6-in-1 tomatoes in a sieve to make the tomatoes thicker.  This seemed to help reduce the sliding of the contents once the pizza was cut. I got the idea after reading that Steve had combined 6-in-1 tomatoes with the considerably thicker Bonta tomatoes to achieve a similar result.  If you precook and drain ingredients such as sausage and pepperoni, this will help reduce the fat in the pizza and result in less sliding also.  (I did this with the "lite" version).

As for the difficulty in combining the oil after kneading the dough, this is quite common when you are working with small amounts of dough and I, too, have sometimes found it necessary to stop the mixer and work on the dough by hand to help incorporate the oil.  In the "lite" version I made recently, I used a food processor because it does a better job with small amounts of dough.  FYI, the late addition of the oil is to allow more complete hydration of the flour by the water.  The theory is that adding the oil to the bowl along with the water interferes with the hydration.  Adding the oil separately is the approach recommended by Tom Lehmann, the dough expert at PMQ, and is widely followed (I do this for all pizza doughs).  If you chose to go to a shortening for your next effort, it can be mixed in with the flour.  This should help with the kneading step.

The yellow coloration you experienced is most likely due to the particular brand of cornmeal you used.  Although the deep dish pizzas I have made using cornmeal didn't produce much coloration, I have seen brands in the supermarket that looked yellower than mine.  In the "lite" version of the pizza I made, I intentionally added yellow coloring to try to get the Gino's look that I remembered from the days when I lived in the Chicago area.

Looking at your pizza is making me hungry.  With the crust thickness adjustment you plan for the second pizza, I think you are headed in the right direction.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 10:58:33 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2004, 10:54:41 AM »
The "ingredients slide" is definitley a moisture/liquid issue. I have had this with different deep dish pizzas I have made and have solved the problem by straining the tomatos (as pete had mentioned), adding more toppings such as meat and green peppers and onions, followed by the most important, cheese.

I used to layer my toppings but have found that mixing all the cheese and fillings into a gloppy mess makes for better cohesion of the finised product.

But, after all it is a Deep dish and what would it be without a little topping slide. ;D

JWB
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Offline DKM

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2004, 02:15:21 PM »
First, I think the sides are still pretty thick and the bottom was razor thin so I think I will try and even it out and see how that works.

Just pat the dough out until it covers the bottom of the pan.  Then using your finger tips, pull up the dough and press it against the side of the pan.

See: http://www.pizzamaking.com/images/dkm/doughcloseup_lg.jpg

DKM
« Last Edit: December 04, 2004, 05:18:22 PM by DKM »
I'm on too many of these boards

shacke

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2004, 07:32:25 PM »
Fantastic replies - thanks.  The 3rd pizza I made had a more consistent dough.  I also noticed that my pans are fairly deep and maybe I was piling it too high but I got the adjustment made and it worked very well.  

Although I have 6-1 now, I did use another "sauce" and that I am sure accounted for the slide - too much liquid.  Another thing to tweak.

Pete - I think since I usually make smaller pies, I may take your advice and autolyse before I really mix in order to allow flour to hydrate.  Maybe that is a compromise that will work and allow the oil to incorporate more easily in a smaller dough.

Another question.  If I want a larger pan, is there a specific brand of pan that is preferred by the group.

Thousand thanks for the help.  Will post more as I progress.  Tomorrow is ciabatta however  :P

Evan

Online Pete-zza

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2004, 10:09:03 PM »
Evan,

I did some online research recently on deep-dish pans.  I was looking for the dark pans (the type recommended by Tom Lehmann), about 2 1/4 inches deep.  I saw some dark deep-dish pans at the Chicago Metallic website and elsewhere, and also at the foodservicedirect.com website, but they were either too shallow for my purposes (less than 2 inches) or the depth wasn't specified (the ones at foodservicedirect).  One source that comes highly recommended and has a wide product selection is the pizzatools.com website.  I wrote on this subject (and on pizzatools) recently at http://www.pizzamaking.com/yabbse/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=27;start=msg5955#msg5955 (Reply #64), so you may want to take a look at the results I reported on there, as well as some of the additional information at the links in that post.  Pizzatools offers both the dark pans and the aluminum pans, which are considerably cheaper than the dark pans.  American Metalcraft also has a broad line of aluminum deep-dish pans.  They are available at several online restaurant supply houses.  I should be able to supply a link to one of such sources should you want one.  

You might also want to take a look at eBay.  I saw some large dark deep-dish Chicago Metallic pans at a recent auction. Unfortunately, they were only 1 1/2 inches deep.  

Peter  

Offline Foccaciaman

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Re:2nd try (was proper dough for 7" pan)
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2004, 12:47:25 PM »
Shacke:

Ciabatta, as in ciabatta bread????? ;D ;D

that is one of my favorites......

I would very much like to know your recipe, it that is indeed what you are making. :)

JWB
Ahhh, Pizza The Fifth Food Group