Author Topic: Greek pizza  (Read 108623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nick378311

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 44
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #260 on: July 11, 2011, 02:41:02 PM »
Oh, and my mistake, I use olive oil in the dough for extra flavor, opposed to corn oil


Offline Ev

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Lancaster Co. Pa.
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #261 on: July 11, 2011, 09:47:38 PM »
Thanks for the recipe. I'll be sure to try it.  So, how many pies do you figure this recipe makes?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 09:50:30 PM by Ev »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #262 on: July 13, 2011, 09:38:33 AM »
I wanted to test my blackbuster steel pan I recently purchased at Bova Foods for a Greek Pizza.  I know my regular Preferment Lehmann dough ball weight didnít give the desired TF for this attempt, but the pizza was good.  At least I now know blackbuster steel pans do work better for a Greek Style pizza.  I also didnít apply enough cheddar cheese with mozzarella for this pizza, because I was selling the slices at market.  If I try this at home, I would add more white cheddar.  Even though the preferment Lehmann dough was rolled out with a rolling pin, pressed into the pan and docked heavily, it still want to rise on the sides of the pan.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline nick378311

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 44
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #263 on: July 17, 2011, 09:58:13 PM »
Well, I used 9 inch pans because thats all I had, and get around 6 pizzas I believe. I usually cut it into 6 slices because of the size

Offline shboom

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #264 on: August 18, 2011, 06:21:11 AM »
Nick, I made 2 pies last night using your recipe for Cape Cod pizza, and I gotta tell you......the crust was PERFECT!!! Unfortunately, the sauce didn't come out the way I remember it at "the Cod".
I used Pastene crushed tomatoes, and followed your recipe to the letter, but for some reason it seems to be missing a flavor I just can't put my finger on.
Has anyone been able to duplicate the sauce flavor used around the South Shore of MA?

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #265 on: August 18, 2011, 08:03:35 AM »
I donít know if this will help anyone that wants to make a Greek style pizza, but I posted on my other thread at Reply 902 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg149911.html#msg149911
how I lowered the bake temperature, and used corn oil to get the bottom crust browner.

Norma
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 08:05:11 AM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Trinity

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 851
  • Extra cheese please!
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #266 on: August 18, 2011, 08:38:56 AM »
Where are the black olives and feta cheese? :'(
It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.

Offline shboom

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #267 on: August 19, 2011, 05:59:21 AM »
Thanks, Norma, for the reply, and if the crust hadn't come out PERFECT, I'd try it your way but......
The crust in the recipe Nick gave us is right on the money.
I, too, used corn oil and cooked at 500 degrees, and the crust browned beautifully. It had just the right crisp, color and texture I was looking for.
What I can't seem to perfect is the sauce recipe. I tried adding and subtracting the quantity of different ingredients and even added a couple of my own ingredients to try to tweak Nick's recipe, but it still isn't what I want.
Anyone else got a recipe they want to share??
And, by the way.......Trinity.......It's GREEK STYLE (bar room) pizza not GREEK PIZZA.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #268 on: August 19, 2011, 08:22:53 AM »
Where are the black olives and feta cheese? :'(

Trinity,

I did have Feta cheese, in with the combination of cheeses on the pictures of the Greek pizza I posted.  ;D i did have black olives at market, but didn't add them.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #269 on: August 19, 2011, 08:32:46 AM »

Anyone else got a recipe they want to share??
And, by the way.......Trinity.......It's GREEK STYLE (bar room) pizza not GREEK PIZZA.

shboom,


I donít know how you how your tomato sauce to taste, but if you want to make your own tomato sauce, Lesís sauce, with fresh tomatoes is really good, in my opinion.  These are some of different times I made Lesís sauce. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11539.0.html  I did use Lesís sauce on the last Greek pictures I posted.

If you want to try the kind of tomato sauce I use at market, I can provide that link. I use Saporito Super Heavy sauce which is a Stanislaus brand of tomato products, and add other ingredients.  I also like Escalon's 6in1 multi-purpose tomato product, with other spices added.  I think Steve (Ev) uses Escalon 6in1, with microwaved ingredients on most of his Greek pizzas.  Steve uses November's method of making his sauce.  i can provide the link to November's method, if you want to see that.

Each  members opinion is usually different, on the kind of tomato sauce they like, or what kind of ingredients they like added to their sauce.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #270 on: August 20, 2011, 08:32:24 PM »
There is a article on slice.serious eats that is called The Pizza Lab:  How To Make New England Greek-style Pizza at Home by J. Kenji Lopez  http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/08/the-pizza-lab-how-to-make-new-england-greek-style-pizza-at-home.html It seems like some of the commenterís really donít like Greek-style pizzas.  It makes me wonder if they have looked at this thread, and saw some of the great formulas, and great results the members had here on the forum with a Greek-style pizza. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #271 on: August 23, 2011, 10:08:38 PM »
I wanted to try out Peterís formula for MA#2 because I wanted to see how a Greek pizza would turn out, with such a low hydrations of 50.7%.  I mixed the dough yesterday morning in my kitchen aid mixer for my 12Ē round steel pan, and used the rest of the numbers Peter set-forth for his MA# 2 formula. 

I had my 12Ē steel pan at home, because I thought I was going to try out another cracker style dough last week, but never had time to get around to another cracker-style pizza.  I forgot to take my 12Ē steel pan along to market today, so I had to substitute and use my other 12Ē round pan, that wasnít steel.  I wasnít happy I forgot my steel pan, but thought I already had the dough made for market today, and had the dough at market since yesterday.  I used Superlative flour as the flour for this pizza.  I also used corn oil to oil the pan.

The dough did feel much drier than other Greek pizzas I have made.  I also proofed the dough in the pan for about an hour.  The Greek pizza skin was first dressed with garlic herb infused olive oil, sauce, hot Italian sausage sliced (I had bought at market and baked in the deck oven), spinach, sliced San Marzano tomatoes from my garden, kalamata dark olives, cheddar cheese, Feta, mozzarella, and a blend of three other cheeses. 

The Greek pie turned out better than I thought it would.  The edges were nice and crunchy, and Steve and I both though the pie was very tasty.

Pictures below,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #272 on: August 23, 2011, 10:10:52 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #273 on: August 23, 2011, 10:13:08 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #274 on: August 23, 2011, 10:14:06 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22457
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #275 on: August 24, 2011, 09:47:38 AM »
Norma,

I'd like to report that the last pizza you made using the MA#2 recipe (at Reply 243 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg144180.html#msg144180) looks like the one I had in Massachusetts except that you used different toppings and it appears that you baked the pizza longer and got a darker crust and what appears to be a crispier crust. However, as best I can recall, the bottom of your pizza looks the same as the one I had in Massachusetts. Remember, also, that the pizza I had was baked in a conveyor oven, not in a deck oven.

The above said, however, I think your choice of cheeses and toppings made for what appears to be a very tasty pizza that I think one would be hard pressed not to like. When I read the recent Slice/SeriousEats piece on Greek pizzas that you referenced, I can understand that some people might not like that style. However, as we all know, there can be both good and bad manifestations or interpretations of any style of pizza. In the case of the Greek style, it may well be that that style evolved in a more individualistic and diversified way. When I was a kid growing up in Massachusetts, near a strong Greek community, the standing joke was that when a Greek came to the U.S., the first thing he did was to open a restaurant. They did not come out of an existing pizza culture with standard guidelines and, hence, made up things as they went along. Maybe that is how eggs and milk ended up in some Greek style pizza doughs and how cheddar cheese ended up on their pizzas. If one were to survey the different forms of Greeks style doughs, I think that they would find a fairly wide range of variations.

I think that the key to success with the Greek style is to use a good recipe, the right pan in the right size and the right lubricant. With respect to the lubricant, I have read articles about using solid fats to lubricate the pans, such as lard and the like, but I would think that the fats would be absorbed into the crusts as they melt during baking and make for a less crispy bottom crust, which is a characteristic that I personally like. By contrast, with oil as the lubricant, the dressed pizza would "float" on the oil and be "fried" by it and not trap any air between the crust and pan as might happen as a solid fat melts. By any chance, have you ever used a solid fat with the Greek style pizza to lubricate the pan? I also wonder what a liquid form of lard, like the liquid manteca you have experimented with and that I see in the Hispanic markets near me, would work as a pan lubricant, even though it is unlikely that professionals would use such a fat (apart from health/nutrition reasons). I also wonder whether using a solid fat would lead to a waxy mouthfeel in the crust when cooled, and what effect it would have on reheating leftover slices.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #276 on: August 24, 2011, 10:28:20 AM »
Norma,

I'd like to report that the last pizza you made using the MA#2 recipe (at Reply 243 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg144180.html#msg144180) looks like the one I had in Massachusetts except that you used different toppings and it appears that you baked the pizza longer and got a darker crust and what appears to be a crispier crust. However, as best I can recall, the bottom of your pizza looks the same as the one I had in Massachusetts. Remember, also, that the pizza I had was baked in a conveyor oven, not in a deck oven.

The above said, however, I think your choice of cheeses and toppings made for what appears to be a very tasty pizza that I think one would be hard pressed not to like. When I read the recent Slice/SeriousEats piece on Greek pizzas that you referenced, I can understand that some people might not like that style. However, as we all know, there can be both good and bad manifestations or interpretations of any style of pizza. In the case of the Greek style, it may well be that that style evolved in a more individualistic and diversified way. When I was a kid growing up in Massachusetts, near a strong Greek community, the standing joke was that when a Greek came to the U.S., the first thing he did was to open a restaurant. They did not come out of an existing pizza culture with standard guidelines and, hence, made up things as they went along. Maybe that is how eggs and milk ended up in some Greek style pizza doughs and how cheddar cheese ended up on their pizzas. If one were to survey the different forms of Greeks style doughs, I think that they would find a fairly wide range of variations.

I think that the key to success with the Greek style is to use a good recipe, the right pan in the right size and the right lubricant. With respect to the lubricant, I have read articles about using solid fats to lubricate the pans, such as lard and the like, but I would think that the fats would be absorbed into the crusts as they melt during baking and make for a less crispy bottom crust, which is a characteristic that I personally like. By contrast, with oil as the lubricant, the dressed pizza would "float" on the oil and be "fried" by it and not trap any air between the crust and pan as might happen as a solid fat melts. By any chance, have you ever used a solid fat with the Greek style pizza to lubricate the pan? I also wonder what a liquid form of lard, like the liquid manteca you have experimented with and that I see in the Hispanic markets near me, would work as a pan lubricant, even though it is unlikely that professionals would use such a fat (apart from health/nutrition reasons). I also wonder whether using a solid fat would lead to a waxy mouthfeel in the crust when cooled, and what effect it would have on reheating leftover slices.

Peter

Peter,

Good to hear the last Greek pizza I made using your MA#2 formula does look like the pizza you had in Massachusetts.  The crust really wasnít crispy when it was eaten.  The bottom crust was a little crisp, but not a crunch, if I can explain it right.  I can understand a Greek pizza baked in a conveyor oven does bake different than my deck oven. 

After Steve first started trying the Greek style pizzas, I really found them interesting and enjoyable.  I think most of the members on Slice either havenít tried a good Greek pizza, or if they tried to make them at home arenít using the right formula or kind of pan.  In my opinion, if someone tries the formulas on this thread and uses the right kind of pan, I think they would be surprised at how good Greek pizzas can be. 

We also have many Greeks in our area, that do have many restaurants, but I havenít ever seen a Greek pizza in our area. I wonder why the Greeks in our area never started the Greek style pizzas here. 

I havenít ever tried a solid fat when making any Greek pizzas.  I have only tried olive oil and corn oil.  Your idea to try Manteca is a good one!  I still have both types of Manteca at home, in my refrigerator. The darker Manteca and the Goya Manteca.  Which one would you recommend for me to try next week with your MA#2 formula?

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22457
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #277 on: August 24, 2011, 11:14:26 AM »
Norma,

The Greek style of pizza seems to be more of a New England based pizza. I have never seen it elsewhere in any of the places I have lived since I left Massachusetts, or even in my travels around the country. I suspect that it is hard to introduce a new style of pizza to people who have never had it or heard of it. Since you have been playing around with that style at market, what has been the reaction of your taste testers?

On the matter of the type of lard to use as a lubricating agent, I think it would be interesting to see how the liquid-y "Mexican" style manteca works out, especially to see its effect on crispiness, mouthfeel and reheating qualities.

Peter



Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22689
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #278 on: August 24, 2011, 11:45:32 AM »
Norma,

The Greek style of pizza seems to be more of a New England based pizza. I have never seen it elsewhere in any of the places I have lived since I left Massachusetts, or even in my travels around the country. I suspect that it is hard to introduce a new style of pizza to people who have never had it or heard of it. Since you have been playing around with that style at market, what has been the reaction of your taste testers?

On the matter of the type of lard to use as a lubricating agent, I think it would be interesting to see how the liquid-y "Mexican" style manteca works out, especially to see its effect on crispiness, mouthfeel and reheating qualities.

Peter


Peter,

To answer your question about how my taste testers like the Greek style of pizza, they all do really like it.  I have been selling some Greek pizza slices, but nothing like my regular NY slices. I have a few regular stand holders that do buy slices of Greek pizzas I make, and they do really like them.  If I ever get satisfied with my experimenting, I will give some samples to customers to see what kind of reactions they have.  It is hard to change someones style preference, if they never tasted something different, or became used to one type of pizza.  I know before I came to this forum I never would have even thought of trying a Neapolitan pizza.  I was stuck in NY style pizza world.   :-D

I will try the Mexican Manteca next week with your MA#2 formula, to see its effect on crispness, mouthfeel, and reheating qualities.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline nick378311

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 44
Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #279 on: August 26, 2011, 03:37:46 PM »
I haven't gotten the sauce just right, but I also found pastenes doesn't work too well for this pizza as I previously thought. I now use a sauce called "tortorosse" or some name like that, i'll check later. I don't use peppers in my sauce. For some reason I can't get the sauce just right but i've found a tiny pinch of rosemary can add alot of the unique taste to the sauce.


 

pizzapan