Author Topic: Greek pizza  (Read 90668 times)

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Offline WestCountry

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2008, 08:33:31 PM »
Hi Peter -
I want to give this recipe a shot!  :chef:
Is the KASL flour a must-have (if so, I can special order), or would King Arthur Bread Flour  work (which I have on hand)?

I'll post some photos of my results.

Thanks!
Chris


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2008, 08:51:43 PM »
Chris,

I think you should be OK using the King Arthur bread flour, although I haven't personally tried the bread flour with the recipe. I would also keep the hydration the same or, if you wish, lower it by 1% to 62% to reflect the rated absorption of the KA bread flour.

I look forward to seeing your photos of the finished pizza.

Peter

Offline WestCountry

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2008, 08:34:48 PM »
Thanks Peter - I'll give it a try and post update with photo's! :)
Chris

Offline Hiney

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2009, 06:01:00 PM »
A bg Favor. I knew Tony many years ago at his last restaurant in Richmond. I live in Europe and will visit Viriginia next week. Would appreciate any info about the rstaurant still operating. thanks a lot

Offline Modegolf

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2010, 09:39:38 AM »
Peter,

I found this Greek pizza dough recipe at pizzaware.com:

1 envelope - Active dry yeast
˝ tsp. - Sugar
2/3 cup - Lukewarm (110° - 115°F) water
2 cups - Bread flour or unbleached, all-purpose flour
1/4 cup - Stone-ground cornmeal
1˝ tsp - Coarse salt (kosher or sea salt)
2 tbsp - Extra virgin Greek olive oil
2 tbsp - Greek oregano, finely chopped

Would you help to convert this to baker’s percents and gram weights?  I wanted to compare it to your Greek pizza dough formula in:

Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2006, 09:08:21 PM »
 
I have become very suspicious of pizza recipes on the internet, but this one seems to be legit.

Thank you!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #65 on: April 26, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »
Modegolf,

I found the dough recipe you referenced and the related instructions to make the dough at http://www.pizzaware.com/greekpizza.htm. scott r is a better one than I to comment on the authenticity of the recipe but I do not recall that cornmeal is used in a Greek/pub style dough as contemplated in this thread or that oregano is used in such a dough. Since the recipe says that the oregano should be "finely chopped", that would suggest fresh oregano. The dough recipe is also fuzzy as to the use of the oil. The dough recipe calls for olive oil but in the instructions it says to sprinkle/drizzle olive oil over the pizza. Maybe it is multiple uses of olive oil but it is not entirely clear. I perhaps can take a stab at converting the recipe to baker's percent format if you can tell me what type and brand of flour you want to use, the type and brand of salt you would plan to use (especially if Kosher), and whether you want the olive oil (2 T.) to go into the dough.

I might add that my recollection is that Greek/pub style doughs got more fermentation than a few hours. The recipe you referenced is one that I would classify as an "emergency" type dough to be made and used in only a few hours. Also, an authentic Greek/pub style pizza as contemplated in this thread uses a cheese blend that typically includes cheddar cheese as part of the blend. It's possible that the recipe you referenced is to make a pizza that uses Greek style cheeses and toppings but is not a "Greek/pub" style pizza as contemplated in this thread.

Not long ago, I spotted a Greek style dough recipe at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5022&p=29426&hilit=#p29426. I can't tell you whether that is a common dough formulation but it seems to be in the ballpark in terms of ingredients used and the way the dough is prepared and managed.

Peter

Offline Modegolf

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2010, 11:52:54 AM »
Thank You Peter...

...for your reply.  I have abandoned my interest with the dough recipe on which I asked your opinion.  I will proceed with the formula you provided previously.  I should never have shopped around!

As a brief follow up question, do you know if Mozz/White Cheddar or Mozz/White Cheddar/Provalone is considered a more authentic blend for a Greek/Bar style pie?  Same question for a Buddy's/Detroit style.

I appreciate your time, expertise, and patience with my newbie questions!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2010, 12:10:23 PM »
Modegolf,

I would say that blends made with mozzarella, cheddar (white) and Provolone cheeses are typical of the Greek/pub style but maybe with a lesser emphasis on the Provolone cheese. I doubt that there is only one type of blend. Each pizza operator will play around with blends to find the preferred form. If scott r reads this post, he may be able to offer a more definitive and accurate opinion on the matter of cheese blends used in the Greek style. He may already have done so earlier in this thread, so you might want to read the thread more completely if you haven't already done so.

I believe that Buddy's has changed cheeses and suppliers. You may want to post your question on their current cheeses in the Buddy's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.0.html so that we don't steer this thread in a new direction unrelated to the Greek style.

Peter

Offline zestiovens

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2010, 12:57:32 PM »
Try a mixture of  Kefalotiri which is a hard cheese made in Greece and a sprinkling of Haloumi cheese from Cyprus with a good virgin olive oil along with some dryed mint ! and garlic in a hot oven around 650 degress, this is a great greek Pizza

Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2010, 01:29:50 PM »
Thank You Peter...

...for your reply.  I have abandoned my interest with the dough recipe on which I asked your opinion.  I will proceed with the formula you provided previously.  I should never have shopped around!

As a brief follow up question, do you know if Mozz/White Cheddar or Mozz/White Cheddar/Provalone is considered a more authentic blend for a Greek/Bar style pie?  Same question for a Buddy's/Detroit style.

I appreciate your time, expertise, and patience with my newbie questions!

The most popular cheese for a New England style greek pizza is 100% mild white cheddar.   Many places also throw in some mozzarella, provolone, or both.   


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2010, 01:45:58 PM »
Try a mixture of  Kefalotiri which is a hard cheese made in Greece and a sprinkling of Haloumi cheese from Cyprus with a good virgin olive oil along with some dryed mint ! and garlic in a hot oven around 650 degress, this is a great greek Pizza


Theo,

In the U.S., there is a style of pizza that is sold mainly in the northeast part of the U.S. and referred to as "Greek" style, mostly because the folks who originated that style were Greek (the Greeks still dominate this style). It is a pan style pizza. Some of the operators may use cheeses and toppings that are based on Greek cooking, but the Greek pan style does not depend on those ingredients. The purpose of this thread is to explore the Greek pan style pizza, not those using uniquely Greek ingredients and toppings (see the opening post at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.0.html).

I do like your suggestion, however. I will have to look for the cheeses you mentioned to see if they are available in the Dallas area where I live. I know I can get them back in the Northeast, which is an option the next time I am up there on vacation.

Peter

Offline ERASMO

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2010, 02:06:53 PM »
Pete

How do you feel about that PMQ recipe.

The percentages seem extreme.  Seems like alot of sugar and alot of oil.  What will that do to the dough?


Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2010, 02:45:57 PM »
sorry to hijack erasmo, that recipe looks to be what many places around here are using minus the garlic with less oil (but still a lot).  The high sugar and oil content makes for a very soft dough that will brown up very easily even with oven temps of 400.   Its a cost efficient pizza as far as electric and gas bills go.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 02:47:38 PM by scott r »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2010, 03:31:43 PM »
ERASMO,

I saw that scott r was posting as I was composing a reply. His input is always a valuable one on this subject.

I wish the PMQTT recipe had given a typical dough ball weight and corresponding pan size since that would have told me more than what I can get from just looking at the recipe itself. However, the high baker's percents for the sugar and oil suggest that the finished crumb will be soft and tender, much as scott r noted. The sugar is hygroscopic, so it will help retain moisture in the dough and the large amount of oil will tend to reduce the rate at which the moisture evaporates from the dough during baking. Assuming that the skins are given a chance to rise sufficiently before dressing and baking, there should be some height to the finished crust. I would guess that a bromated flour will work best for this style of pizza because it helps retain the volume of the dough during proofing prior to dressing and baking. The crispiness of the crust will come from the oil in the pan, which will help "fry" the outer crust in contact with the pan.

I think the 48.5% hydration should work with the "wetness" contributed by the 10% oil to yield an "effective" hydration of 58.5%. That value would permit using a sheeter, or a rolling pin at home, to form the final skin that is to go into a pan. Once panned, the skin should be given sufficient proof time.

Except for the granulated garlic, it should be pretty straightforward to use the baker's percents for the PMQTT recipe to come up with a dough ball or two to play around with. I think I would use a thickness factor of between 0.09-0.11 as a starting point. The expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html should help come up with ingredient quantities.

I have observed that there is a paucity of dough recipes on the Internet for the "Greek" style pizza. At the store level, I have also noted that there can be variations in the finished pizzas from one pizzeria to another. The commonality seems to be the use of a dough that is proofed in a pan with a lot of oil, and the use of white cheddar cheese alone or as part of a blend. Bromated flour may also be a fairly common component, and oregano seems to be common in the sauce.

You can see the menu of the last "Greek" pizza place I visited, which is run by a Greek husband and wife team, at http://www.saugus.com/images/PDFS/stellasoct2009menu.pdf. They use 7 ounces of dough for the 10" pan size. The flour is General Mills Full Strength flour, which is a bromated flour. From what I was told, I calculated a hydration of around 50%. However, there no doubt are other ingredients. Maybe in a future visit I can get more information on their particular dough formulation.

Peter


Offline ERASMO

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2010, 03:57:18 PM »
Thanks for the info.

I am going to work on this dough this week.

Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2010, 04:01:02 PM »
Right on peter, and just as you suspected I don't know of a single pizzeria that isn't using bromated flour for this style.

Offline ERASMO

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2010, 09:54:01 AM »
"Not long ago, I spotted a Greek style dough recipe at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5022&p=29426&hilit=#p29426. I can't tell you whether that is a common dough formulation but it seems to be in the ballpark in terms of ingredients used and the way the dough is prepared and managed.

Peter"

Last night I tried this recipe using Pillsbury so strong high gluten flour.  It was very hard for the mixer to get it into a dough ball. I had to add a little more water. Is it just because of the low hydration of the recipe or could it be the flour I used?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2010, 11:00:11 AM »
Last night I tried this recipe using Pillsbury so strong high gluten flour.  It was very hard for the mixer to get it into a dough ball. I had to add a little more water. Is it just because of the low hydration of the recipe or could it be the flour I used?


ERASMO,

It could be both. The PMQTT recipe and instructions are silent as to the type of flour used. I am not familiar with the Pillsbury flour you used but I did some searching this morning and using the code I found for that flour at the Pillsbury website at http://pillsburybakery.com/products/ViewProduct.aspx?productId=216&CatId=36, I expanded my search and found the specs for that flour at http://profileshowcase.foodprofile.com/ProductClientId/WSLEE00021/000374/33878/guess?itemdesc=FLOUR%20SO%20STRONG&itemid=0000062655. The specs suggest a nominal protein content of 14%. Because of rounding, the actual value could be 13.5-14.4% or something close to that. Either way, that flour should be able to handle a hydration of around 62-63%. However, pizza operators often use a lower hydration to make the dough easier to handle and, if they are using sheeters or the like, to work more efficiently with that equipment. In your case, since you are using a home mixer, it is quite possible that you needed more water to get the flour properly hydrated. What you did was the proper thing to do. What I usually do in cases like this is to note the amount of additional water that was needed to properly hydrate the flour to get the dough to the proper final condition. Then I go back and modify the original recipe to make it more closely fit the actual situation.

Peter

Offline ERASMO

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #78 on: May 01, 2010, 10:59:22 AM »
Made the Greek pan pizza last night.  I did like the PMQ recipe better.  Flavor was great and the crust was nice and crisp but the bottom browned nicely but was not crispy.  What could I try to crisp up the bottom?  I though maybe during the baking I could take the pizza out of the pan and put it on the stone.  I did use the half cabot cheddar and half grande east coast blend and the cheese flavor was perfect.  For the sauce I used tha stanislaus sap. and added water, oregano, sugar, dried basil, pepper and garlic salt.  Sauce was also a direct hit!

Crispy bottom is the only thing I need to nail down!!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #79 on: May 01, 2010, 11:52:17 AM »
What could I try to crisp up the bottom?  I though maybe during the baking I could take the pizza out of the pan and put it on the stone.


ERASMO,

After baking a pizza, I will sometimes put one of the slices back onto the pizza stone, with the oven off, just to get a more crispy bottom crust from the residual stone heat. I like hot slices, so that also keeps the slices hot. I also recall that member quidoPizza, a former pizza operator, used a similar method, but for an entire pizza (Sicilian in his case), as described at Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1359.msg12978.html#msg12978.

In your case, did you oil the pan in which you proofed and baked the pizza? If so, what kind of oil and how much?

Also, did you follow the PMQ recipe as given and what weight of dough did you use and what size (diameter and depth) and type of pan (e.g., material and seasoning condition) did you use to make the pizza?

It would be nice to see some photos sometime.

Peter