Greek pizza

[ERASMO]

Pete

I just spoke with a guy who used to own a local greek pan pizza shop years ago.

He tried to remenber his recipe but says it is difficult because he did it by feel.

Can you look at this and see what you think.

He told me he used all trumps high gluten
50 lb bag
32 lbs of water
1 cup vegtable oil (he said he used devo?) he said not to use olive oil.
1/2 cup salt
1 cup sugar
1/3 lb plus of yeast.  He said he used "dry brick yeast"

I am no expert but the oil, salt and sugar seem low to me??

[Pete-zza]

ERASMO,

You might try to double check what the "dry brick yeast" is. Usually the expression "brick yeast" means compressed/cake/fresh yeast. However, sometimes the expression "dry brick" can mean one of those vacuum-pack packages of dry yeast that is hard as a brick. If the yeast is dry yeast, you might inquire whether it is IDY or ADY. I took your numbers and, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, came up with the following dough formulation based on ADY:

All Trumps High-Gluten Flour (100%): Water (64%): ADY (0.26666%): Salt (0.59062%): Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.96119%): Sugar (0.84375%): Total (166.66222%):

22680 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs 14515.2 g  |  512 oz | 32 lbs 60.48 g | 2.13 oz | 0.13 lbs | 5.33 tbsp | 0.33 cups 133.95 g | 4.72 oz | 0.3 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups 218 g | 7.69 oz | 0.48 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups 191.36 g | 6.75 oz | 0.42 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups 37799 g | 1333.3 oz | 83.33 lbs | TF = N/A

I also ran the numbers through the expanded dough calculating tool on the assumption that the yeast is IDY. The dough formulation is as follows:

All Trumps High-Gluten Flour (100%): Water (64%): IDY (0.2125%): Salt (0.59062%): Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (0.96119%): Sugar (0.84375%): Total (166.60806%):

22680.01 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs 14515.21 g  |  512 oz | 32 lbs 48.2 g | 1.7 oz | 0.11 lbs | 5.33 tbsp | 0.33 cups 133.95 g | 4.72 oz | 0.3 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups 218 g | 7.69 oz | 0.48 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups 191.36 g | 6.75 oz | 0.42 lbs | 16 tbsp | 1 cups 37786.72 g | 1332.87 oz | 83.3 lbs | TF = N/A

If you discover that the yeast was fresh yeast, we can revise the dough formulation accordingly. The other pieces of information that are missing is the amount of dough used to make a given size pizza and that pizza size. It might be that there are two pizza sizes. The depth of the pan would also be useful.

Peter

[Xodyaq]

The formulation I ended up with as a result of the modifications I made to the basic Lehmann formulation was as follows:

100%, High-gluten flour (KASL), 9.37 oz. (265.46 g.), 2 1/4 c.
63%, Water*, 5.90 oz. (167.24 g.), a bit less than 3/4 c.
2%, Sugar, 0.19 oz. (5.31 g.), 1 1/3 t.
1%, Oil (extra virgin olive oil), 0.09 oz. (2.65 g.), a bit over 1/2 t.
1.75%, Salt, 0.16 oz. (4.65 g.), a bit less than 7/8 t.
0.40%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.04 oz. (1.06 g.), a bit over 1/3 t.
*Temp. adjusted to achieve a finished dough temperature of 75 degrees F
Thickness Factor (TF) = 0.11
Finished dough weight = 15.75 oz. (446.38 g.)
Pizza size = 13 1/2 inches (the diameter of the cutter pan bottom)
Note: all measurements U.S./metric standard

Apart from doubling the measurements, I've followed the formulation above. I had to get KA Bread Flour as I couldn't find the GM full Strength that was described later in the posts. As of now, there is a dough-ball living in my refrigerator

Growing up in Southern New Hampshire, this was the only pizza I knew until Domino's and Pizza Wheels moved in when I was a teenager. But I fondly remember Luigi's, Hooksett House, Chelby's, Sabo's, Brother's, and Pappy's amongst others in the area that all offered a very golden crisp outer crust, with a tangy cheese. I worked at Pappy's as a helper in the kitchen while in High School, but sadly I never knew their formulation for the dough or sauce, but I do know the pies were small compared to "Italian" pizzaria standards, (10" and 14") but I've provided a link to their website, they have some good photos of a couple pies on their front page to give you an idea of what a "greek" pizza should look like.

Their site is at pappyspizzaonline(dot)com 

The only memories that I can share was that the dough did indeed need to be prepanned. We would dough up several pans, but had a device that looked a lot like a wringer on an antique washing machine to roll them out. It would make an almost perfect stretched dough that didn't require much to fidget with.  We would prepare many a few hours before they were needed, but the pans were stacked next to the oven which if memory serves was a Blodgett brand.   The pans were very dark and well seasoned. I remember that we would remove the pie from the pan, and cut it with a large knife. (Not a pizza wheel.) When cutting, the pizza had a noticable crunch to it.

Hope some of the insight helps!
-X

[Pete-zza]

Xodyaq,

Thanks for your post. The active link is http://www.pappyspizzaonline.com/. After five posts, you will be able to post links on your own.

I look forward to your results, with photos if possible.

Peter

[Xodyaq]

I look forward to your results, with photos if possible.

Peter

The dough is out of the fridge, dusted and setting. I will be panning it in a half hour, and getting ready to photograph it. I have to use a rectangular pan as I couldn't find a sufficient round pan with the sidewalls, but soon there will be  I will get you some photos.

[Xodyaq]

The dough is out of the fridge, dusted and setting. I will be panning it in a half hour, and getting ready to photograph it. I have to use a rectangular pan as I couldn't find a sufficient round pan with the sidewalls, but soon there will be  I will get you some photos.

OK, the pie is sauced, and in the oven!

[Xodyaq]

OK, the pie is sauced, and in the oven!

OK, Fini! The crust I remember was a bit more golden, I think the next pie I will oil the crust before baking to see the result, but consistency and favor are spot on.

[cmyden]

I'm hoping to try and make a Greek style pizza with a crust that has a nice crisp edge.

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for the type of pan I should buy to achieve something that looks like this?

I know the angle isn't ideal in the pic.  I think what I'm looking for has a pronounced 'lip' if I'm using that term correctly.

I'm just wondering what type of pans I should be looking?  If anyone has any specific recommendations that would definitely be appreciated!

[Pete-zza]

cmyden,

Can you tell us where the pizza you showed came from, that is, the part of the country or any other details that you can supply? Also, are the sides of the pizza straight or sloping?

Peter

[cmyden]

cmyden,

Can you tell us where the pizza you showed came from, that is, the part of the country or any other details that you can supply? Also, are the sides of the pizza straight or sloping?

Peter

Hi Peter,

I would say the sides are sloping.

It's from Western Canada, Inglewood pizza in Calgary, Alberta to be exact. 

There's another picture of their pizza on their website

Here's another pic that I found Googling around that might give a better idea.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

[Pete-zza]

cmyden,

I did not see anything at the Inglewood Pizza website or from my own Google search to indicate that the Inglewood pizzas are Greek or pub style pizzas as we know them in the U.S., but for some options in your case, you might want to take a look at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12167.msg114668.html#msg114668.

Peter

[cmyden]

cmyden,

I did not see anything at the Inglewood Pizza website or from my own Google search to indicate that the Inglewood pizzas are Greek or pub style pizzas as we know them in the U.S., but for some options in your case, you might want to take a look at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12167.msg114668.html#msg114668.

Peter

Thanks Peter I will check it out!

[cmyden]

cmyden,

I did not see anything at the Inglewood Pizza website or from my own Google search to indicate that the Inglewood pizzas are Greek or pub style pizzas as we know them in the U.S., but for some options in your case, you might want to take a look at the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12167.msg114668.html#msg114668.

Peter

Hi Peter,

I took a look, and there certainly are a lot of options!

I was wondering, would you happen to have a best guess for which specific pan might come closest to helping me create the type of pizza pictured above?

It's all in the name of experimentation to me as an amateur pizza chef, so it's not a big deal if I end up buying the 'wrong' pan.

Regarding the style of the pizza as it relates to Greek, I've been told that here in Calgary, Canada we have a few restaurants that are known for making what I've heard called a 'Greek steakhouse pie'.  It was apparently quite popular in the 1970's and early 80's.

This is what I can tell you about this type of pizza:

- The crust is quite crisp.  Here's a quote from someone who enjoys this particular pizza:

"Hands down they make the best crust around. It's a perfect consistency, not too thick not too thin and has a nice crisp
edge."

- The pizza has a sweetened taste to it.  Here's another quote from someone about this pizza:

Toppings have always been top notch but the secret ingredient is their sauce. A pizza can have everything going for
it but if the sauce isn't right then the pizza fails. This sauce has a wonderful sweetness to it (and a secret ingredient)
that makes it one of the best sauces I've ever tasted. I've tried in the past to replicate it but have always failed.

It's funny though, when I taste the sauce on it's own, I don't detect much, if any, sweetness. I'm wondering if perhaps it's not the type of oil (I've heard it's canola) adding the sweetness to the crust, not the sauce.  Someone else is convinced that cinnamon is the secret ingredient.

Others seem to describe the sauce as 'mild yet tangy'

best damn pizza ever, it's your traditional greek style crust.  The top gets a thin layer of cheese crust
to crunch through, followed by a tangy pizza sauce and a nice dough with a crisp bottom. My all time fave.

DH loved the greek style crust.  The pizza sauce was mild and bit tangy.

- I once saw an old post from someone who apparently worked there and said that the dough is simply made up of baking powder,
sugar, salt, yeast, oil, flour, and club soda.

- I know for a fact that the cheese is 100% mozzarella from a local supplier and it's readily available for purchase.


Of all the styles I've learned about on PizzaMaking, it seems like this U.S. Greek style is the closest to what I'm looking to create.  And you seem to be an expert on it, so any tips or help you can provide is definitely appreciated.

Once I get a pan, I was thinking of just starting with your recipe on page 2 and see how it turns out.  I think there's some valuable tips in this thread that might get me closer, like this one:

There are only really two tricks to making this type of pizza.  The first is not as much the crust recipe, but more what you
do with the crust once you shape the pie.  The trick to bar pizza is that the dough is stretched thin, but it is left to
raise in an oiled pan before it goes into the oven.  This creates the signature crispy, airy crust.  If you go to most
Italian style pizzerias (like papa gino's) you will see the dough being stretched, topped, and put right into the oven.

Here's a picture of a pizza that is also from Calgary (different restaurant) that is known for being along the same style with the delicious crispy crust....

[Pete-zza]

cmyden,

Have you attempted to learn how Inglewood bakes its pizzas, that is, in pans or on screens or something else? That would be my first line of attack if I were trying to replicate their style. Sometimes you can see how they bake their pizzas by watching them prepare the pizzas in their store. The owner might even tell you what kind of pan is being used if they do, indeed, use a pan.

Failing the above, my next choice would be to use something like a dark anodized PSTK cutter pan or deep-dish pan such as sold by pizzatools.com (Lloyd Industries) and shown at http://www.pizzatools.com/Cutter_Pans/30870/subgrouping.htm and http://www.pizzatools.com/Deep_Dish_Nesting/30872/subgrouping.htm, respectively. In the U.S., pizza operators who specialize in the Greek style of pizza often use shallow (about 1" deep) straight-sided steel pans. However, from what I have read, the PizzaTools dark anodized pans bake faster than steel pans. The PizzaTools pans tend to be quite expensive but their PSTK products are among my favorites. My recollection is that PizzaTools ships into Canada but I don't have any idea as to what it would cost to ship to Alberta. As you can see from http://www.pizzatools.com/content/PizzaTools/CustomPages/contactus.htm, PizzaTools is located in the State of Washington.

Peter

[cmyden]

cmyden,

Have you attempted to learn how Inglewood bakes its pizzas, that is, in pans or on screens or something else? That would be my first line of attack if I were trying to replicate their style. Sometimes you can see how they bake their pizzas by watching them prepare the pizzas in their store. The owner might even tell you what kind of pan is being used if they do, indeed, use a pan.

Failing the above, my next choice would be to use something like a dark anodized PSTK cutter pan or deep-dish pan such as sold by pizzatools.com (Lloyd Industries) and shown at http://www.pizzatools.com/Cutter_Pans/30870/subgrouping.htm and http://www.pizzatools.com/Deep_Dish_Nesting/30872/subgrouping.htm, respectively. In the U.S., pizza operators who specialize in the Greek style of pizza often use shallow (about 1" deep) straight-sided steel pans. However, from what I have read, the PizzaTools dark anodized pans bake faster than steel pans. The PizzaTools pans tend to be quite expensive but their PSTK products are among my favorites. My recollection is that PizzaTools ships into Canada but I don't have any idea as to what it would cost to ship to Alberta. As you can see from http://www.pizzatools.com/content/PizzaTools/CustomPages/contactus.htm, PizzaTools is located in the State of Washington.

Peter

Thanks again Peter, I appreciate it!  I'm going to try and sneak a peek next time I'm there.  I know they use a Baker's Pride deck oven for cooking that's about it.

In the last picture I posted above (from a different pizza place in Calgary), it looks like you can see the pan and would that be what is known as a screen as well?  Any guesses as to what kind of pan that might be?  Or what I could search for on Google to find a similar setup?

[Pete-zza]

In the last picture I posted above (from a different pizza place in Calgary), it looks like you can see the pan and would that be what is known as a screen as well?  Any guesses as to what kind of pan that might be?  Or what I could search for on Google to find a similar setup?

cmyden,

You are correct about the pizza screen but I believe it is sitting on top of a serving tray. PizzaTools also sells serving trays, as noted at http://www.pizzatools.com/Serving_Trays/30869/subgrouping.htm. The company also sells baking trays that look similar to serving trays, such as noted at http://www.pizzatools.com/Baking_Trays/30866/subgrouping.htm, so it is hard to tell which type of tray is shown in the photo. A pizza screen is also sometimes used in lieu of a cooling rack, so that is another possible use of the screen. Usually, pizza screens are used for baking pizzas in a conveyor oven. PizzaTools also sells pizza screens: http://www.pizzatools.com/Screens/30888/subgrouping.htm.

Peter

[cmyden]

The PizzaTools pans tend to be quite expensive but their PSTK products are among my favorites. My recollection is that PizzaTools ships into Canada but I don't have any idea as to what it would cost to ship to Alberta. As you can see from http://www.pizzatools.com/content/PizzaTools/CustomPages/contactus.htm, PizzaTools is located in the State of Washington.

Peter

I gave PizzaTools/Lloyds a shout, and it would be $20 for the pan, + $40 for FedEx shipping to Canada + whatever ridiculous brokerage charges that FedEx would apply (as FedEx and UPS always do to us Canadians).  I asked if they would be able to ship it via USPS, which simply charges a $5 brokerage fee, but unfortunately they can't.

Anyone have a used 12" or 14" anodized PSTK pan laying around they want to sell?

Not sure if there's anywhere in Canada that sells something comparable, I'll keep looking.

[enchant]

I just did a google search and found this:

http://www.amazon.ca/USA-Pans-12-Inch-Crust-Anodized/dp/B002UNMZNA?SubscriptionId=0RCYPK6P87KG2XNF0RR2&tag=shopbotca-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B002UNMZNA

Don't know anything about the place.  I have to imagine that all the pizza joints in Canada must be buying their restaurant equipment somewhere...

[cmyden]

I just did a google search and found this:

http://www.amazon.ca/USA-Pans-12-Inch-Crust-Anodized/dp/B002UNMZNA?SubscriptionId=0RCYPK6P87KG2XNF0RR2&tag=shopbotca-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B002UNMZNA

Don't know anything about the place.  I have to imagine that all the pizza joints in Canada must be buying their restaurant equipment somewhere...

Thanks Enchant, I was actually going to mention that I had found the 14 inch version of that pan on Amazon, but I couldn't find anything about USA Pans, good or bad.

I've just heard so many great things about the Lloyd pans, and I always like to buy things that get great reviews.

In the description of that pan it says: "It is not recommended to exceed baking temperature of 400 Degrees F".  That kind of put me off them as well.

[enchant]

Yeah, that doesn't sound good.