Author Topic: Greek pizza (Read 72728 times)

enchant · « **Reply #120 on:** November 27, 2010, 08:04:09 PM »

Well, I gave my first try at this tonight, and the results were absolutely ghastly! I make a pretty decent 16" NY pizza with a 16 oz dough ball. A couple of posts here led me to believe that this wouldn't be too over what I'd need to fit in my 12" pan. As it turns out, it might have been twice what I needed. I cooked myself a pizza-flavored pillow tonight. There were areas that were approaching 2" thick.

What is the dough weight vs. pizza diameter for one of these bar pizzas? I live in the South Shore area of Massachusetts, and although I've been happy with the NY style pizzas I've been making, I recently had a bar pizza at a new local restaurant, and it was pretty fantastic. I'm dying to reproduce it.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #121 on:** November 27, 2010, 08:18:59 PM »

Pat,

Welcome back.

I believe I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but the last time I was in Massachusetts and had a Greek style pizza, the pizza maker told me that they used 7 ounces of dough for a 10" straight-sided steel pan with a depth of 1". For that case, I calculated a thickness factor of 0.089127. In your case, using 16 ounces of dough in a 12" pan, the corresponding thickness factor is 0.14147.

I recently tried the original recipe I posted but using the reduced amount of dough in a pan as mentioned above and the pizza turned out very well. If you'd like, I think I can come up with a dough formulation for your 12" pan based on the thickness factor I used. I can't tell you what kind of thickness factor one might use for a bar pizza, although I believed the topic of bar pizzas was covered much earlier in this thread. You might do a forum search to find the relevant posts.

Peter

enchant · « **Reply #122 on:** November 27, 2010, 09:12:27 PM »

Thanks Peter. I'll try making the calculations myself, and if things still go south, I'll ask for your help again. I'll probably also reread this thread through once more.

norma427 · « **Reply #123 on:** December 06, 2010, 07:53:14 AM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on November 27, 2010, 08:18:59 PM

I recently tried the original recipe I posted but using the reduced amount of dough in a pan as mentioned above and the pizza turned out very well.

Peter

Peter,

I recently purchased a 17"x1" well seasoned pan on Ebay. I wonder if you took any pictures of your recent Greek pizza and which formula you used in this thread. Maybe next week, if I have time, I want to try another Greek pizza. I really like Greek pizzas and want to see if I can get good results in my new pan.

Norma

enchant · « **Reply #124 on:** December 06, 2010, 08:29:01 AM »

I'm wondering if I've got the wrong pan. It's 12" dia and shaped correctly, but it's shiny silver, and it just feels heavier and more durable than the pizza joint pans sound, if you know what I mean. They sound thinner and lighter.

My latest attempt at a greek pizza came out twice as good as the first, but on a scale of 1-10, this was an improvement from '1' to '2'. I preheat my stone for 1 hour in a 500 degree oven, but after 8 minutes of baking, it still seemed soft. After 10 minutes, still soft. After 12 minutes, I finally took it out, because I did see some browning on the bottom, and the cheese was getting quite brown. But the crust was still very soft, as though I'd nuked yesterday's pizza.

Also, any cheese near the edge stuck to the pan like epoxy. I literally had to bang the spatula around the edge to free it. I did use a coating of olive oil all over the inside of the pan. I don't know if I need more oil, if if I need a different pan.

Ev · « **Reply #125 on:** January 26, 2011, 07:59:11 AM »

I revisited this style of pizza again yesterday at Norma427's market stand. Just to make it a little more "Greeky", if you will, I added a sprinkling of crumbled Feta beneath the, probably too much, medium white cheddar. Just for fun, I added pepperoni under the cheese as well. I baked in an old well used 14" American Metalcraft anodized aluminum pan that I recently bought on ebay.

The sauce is 1 15oz can Hunts tomato sauce, 1 6oz can Hunts tomato paste, 1.5 t sugar, .5 t salt, .5 t crushed basil, 1T minced garlic, 2 t evoo.

The dough was cold fermented 24 hrs, followed by a 4 hr room temp proof.
Flour 100% KABF
Water 63%
IDY .3%
Salt 2%
Oil 2%
Sugar 1%
Thickness Factor 0.11
Single Ball 480g

Ev · « **Reply #126 on:** January 26, 2011, 08:01:34 AM »

More Photos

enchant · « **Reply #127 on:** January 26, 2011, 08:10:43 AM »

Hi Ev,

One thing that you didn't include in your recent posts was a report card. What did you think of the results you got? Better than your previous attempts? You've had some great success at this that I'm (unsuccessfully, so far) trying to match.

Ev · « **Reply #128 on:** January 26, 2011, 08:20:08 AM »

Hi Pat,
I really liked this pie. I think the Feta added a really nice touch to the overall flavor, and the under the cheese pepperoni had a more subtle, less "in your face" flavor.
At the market, we gave some away to some folks, telling them that it was just an experimental pizza. To my delight, they returned and said it was good enough that they'd buy it every week if we included it in the menu!

scott r · « **Reply #129 on:** January 26, 2011, 07:28:47 PM »

wow,, that really looks close to perfect. The only thing I tend to see at the better places around here is more oil and char on the bottom. Was it placed right on a hot deck? Maybe just more oil on the bottom and you would have it. Some places making this style don't use any oil on the bottom, so dont take this the wrong way. Many would say this is exactly the way they like it. THe outside char on the cheese is exactly what I am looking for on a good greek pie and you did it better than just about anyone.

Ev · « **Reply #130 on:** January 26, 2011, 10:43:02 PM »

Gee thanks, Scott! That means a lot to me coming from you.
Yeah, cooked right on the deck at Norma427's stand. I think her oven runs at about 560-565 or so.
I only used enough oil to coat the pan and wiped off the excess. On a previous bake, I had so much oil in the pan that it created a seal around the rim so that the steam could not escape, and the whole pie turned into one big bubble! And of course the bottom didn't cook at all because it wasn't touching the pan!
So now I use less oil.

scott r · « **Reply #131 on:** January 27, 2011, 12:15:06 AM »

try a couple of fork pokes in the bottom of the crust before you apply the sauce. or....just stick with less oil. either way you have a good looking greek pie there.

norma427 · « **Reply #132 on:** January 27, 2011, 07:12:35 AM »

Steve,

Of the two slices I took home, I reheated one slice last evening in my oven and the slice was just as tasty as when you made the Greek pizza.

The side crunch was still there. It was a nice treat after part of a day shoveling. I gave the other slice to my daughter and she also really raved about the Greek pizza. I think you had the right combination of everything on that pie.

The combination of cheese really also gave your Greek pizza a really different taste. I might think about making your Greek pie each week at market. I think it would really be a good seller. I will wait until after all this bad weather is over though. You did tell me, but is the first formula the one you used for the pie you make?

Back to the shoveling and snow blowing again today. I guess you got a lot of snow, too.

Norma

Ev · « **Reply #133 on:** January 27, 2011, 07:58:02 AM »

Thanks Norma, I'm glad you like it so well.
I used the formula above in post #125. I suppose you can scale it whatever size or shape pan you wish. This pie was 14". All my previous attempts were 10".
For market purposes, I think you may want to try a different flour. The KABF is a little pricey and I'm not sure it's that much better than some other, cheaper flours.

Yeah, we got another 8 or 9 inches I guess. I had to shovel out my wifes' car at 5:30 this morning and drive her to work...............again!

norma427 · « **Reply #134 on:** January 27, 2011, 08:42:33 AM »

Quote from: Ev on January 27, 2011, 07:58:02 AM

Thanks Norma, I'm glad you like it so well.
I used the formula above in post #125. I suppose you can scale it whatever size or shape pan you wish. This pie was 14". All my previous attempts were 10".
For market purposes, I think you may want to try a different flour. The KABF is a little pricey and I'm not sure it's that much better than some other, cheaper flours.

Yeah, we got another 8 or 9 inches I guess. I had to shovel out my wifes' car at 5:30 this morning and drive her to work...............again!

Steve,

If I have time I might try the Greek pizza at home this weekend. I only have a sloping pan 12" pan at home. I wonder how that would or wouldn’t work. I would think the cheese would melt to much on the sides and then burn. Did anyone on this thread try a sloping pan?

At least you only have to deal with your home in shoveling. I have my mother’s place and some other older neighbors places to deal with in all this snow. I soon have to get myself outside and get started. At least my snow blower does work now, since I repaired it. What a relief that is.

Thanks for telling me about the formula.

If I have time I might get some Kyrol flour to try in the formula. Did you ever try bromated flour in the formula?

Norma

Ev · « **Reply #135 on:** January 27, 2011, 09:12:43 AM »

Norma, I believe Peter used a cutter pan in his early experiments with a similar recipe with good results. If your pan is like the one you gave me, I don't think you'll have any problems.
The only time I used a different flour was when I had some leftover dough from the wfo, and that would have, of course, been Caputo.(blue bag, not pizzeria) These were doughs for a 12 inch pie that I used in a 10 inch pan. Came out great IIRC.
I may soon try a plain AP flour like Ceresota and see what happens.

norma427 · « **Reply #136 on:** January 27, 2011, 09:32:30 AM »

Quote from: Ev on January 27, 2011, 09:12:43 AM

Norma, I believe Peter used a cutter pan in his early experiments with a similar recipe with good results. If your pan is like the one you gave me, I don't think you'll have any problems.
The only time I used a different flour was when I had some leftover dough from the wfo, and that would have, of course, been Caputo.(blue bag, not pizzeria) These were doughs for a 12 inch pie that I used in a 10 inch pan. Came out great IIRC.
I may soon try a plain AP flour like Ceresota and see what happens.

Steve,

My deep-dish pan is just like the one I gave you. Let me know if you try the Ceresota flour how it works for you.

Thanks for your help.

Norma

Pete-zza · « **Reply #137 on:** January 27, 2011, 10:00:50 AM »

Norma,

I know that you have the Lehmann NY style dough formulation memorized at this point, but if you look at the Greek-style dough formulation I posted at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg27482.html#msg27482, you will see that it is really just a thicker version of the Lehmann formulation but with some sugar added and using a pan with some oil in it. Steve modified that formulation (as noted in Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg124557.html#msg124557) by using KABF flour instead of the KASL and by tweaking the values of the sugar, oil, salt and yeast (he also used a 14" pan with dough weight matched for that size). Given the similarity of those Greek-style formulations to the Lehmann dough formulation, I pondered the question this morning whether the preferment Lehmann formulation you have been using at market might also be usable to make a Greek-style pan pizza. Of course, the dough ball weight would have to conform to your pan size, but that shouldn't pose a problem. What do you think?

Peter

norma427 · « **Reply #138 on:** January 27, 2011, 01:59:45 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on January 27, 2011, 10:00:50 AM

Norma,

I know that you have the Lehmann NY style dough formulation memorized at this point, but if you look at the Greek-style dough formulation I posted at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg27482.html#msg27482, you will see that it is really just a thicker version of the Lehmann formulation but with some sugar added and using a pan with some oil in it. Steve modified that formulation (as noted in Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg124557.html#msg124557) by using KABF flour instead of the KASL and by tweaking the values of the sugar, oil, salt and yeast (he also used a 14" pan with dough weight matched for that size). Given the similarity of those Greek-style formulations to the Lehmann dough formulation, I pondered the question this morning whether the preferment Lehmann formulation you have been using at market might also be usable to make a Greek-style pan pizza. Of course, the dough ball weight would have to conform to your pan size, but that shouldn't pose a problem. What do you think?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for pondering over using the preferment Lehmann dough for a Greek-style pizza. I never thought about using the preferment Lehmann dough to try a Greek-style pizza. I have a few frozen dough balls at home I could try to see if they could successfully make a Greek-style pizza at home. Do you know what weight of dough I would need for my sloping 11" across the bottom deep-dish pan to have about the same TF? I do have two size dough balls frozen, but need to take the weights. It would be great if I decided to make Greek-style pizzas at market and wouldn’t need to make two different doughs.

I think it would be a good plan to try.

Your mind is never stopping in thinking about new ideas to try. I appreciate you thoughts over how similar the formula are. I wonder what the sugar added would bring to the table, since I don’t have any sugar in my preferment Lehmann dough.

Norma

Pete-zza · « **Reply #139 on:** January 27, 2011, 02:45:41 PM »

Norma,

When I first tried the Greek-style dough as discussed at Reply 20, I used a sloping sided PizzaTools 14" PSTK cutter pan and I shaped the skin to fit the bottom diameter of the pan (13.5 inches). At the time, the dough calculating tools did not exist and I did not use a bowl residue compensation. I did all the math using a calculator and possibly a spreadsheet. However, the pan size I used for calculation purposes was the 13.5" diameter of the bottom of the pan, relying on the fact that the dough would rise in the pan during the final proof before dressing and baking and fill it up to a certain extent. In your case, with your sloping sided pan with a bottom diameter of 11", you would need 3.14159 x (11/2) x (11/2) x 0.11, or 10.45 ounces/296.36 grams of dough.

If you discover that you can make a satisfactory Greek-style pizza using your preferment Lehmann dough formulation, you might be able to flip your preferment Lehmann formulation around to include some sugar, maybe up to 2% provided that the bottom crust doesn't brown too quickly or excessively. That will perhaps be less of an issue with your home oven than with your deck oven at market. If your preferment Lehmann formulation can tolerate some sugar, then you might find that you end up with only one dough for both types pizzas. Of course, the proof of the pudding (or should I say, pizza) will in the eating.

Peter