Author Topic: Greek pizza  (Read 120369 times)

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Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #125 on: January 26, 2011, 07:59:11 AM »
I revisited this style of pizza again yesterday at Norma427's market stand. Just to make it a little more "Greeky", if you will, I added a sprinkling of crumbled Feta beneath the, probably too much, medium white cheddar. Just for fun, I added pepperoni under the cheese as well. I baked in an old well used 14" American Metalcraft anodized aluminum pan that I recently bought on ebay.

The sauce is 1 15oz can Hunts tomato sauce, 1 6oz can Hunts tomato paste, 1.5 t sugar, .5 t salt, .5 t crushed basil, 1T minced garlic, 2 t evoo.

The dough was cold fermented 24 hrs, followed by a 4 hr room temp proof.
Flour 100% KABF
Water 63%
IDY .3%
Salt 2%
Oil 2%
Sugar 1%
Thickness Factor 0.11
Single Ball 480g



Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #126 on: January 26, 2011, 08:01:34 AM »
More Photos

Offline enchant

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #127 on: January 26, 2011, 08:10:43 AM »
Hi Ev,

One thing that you didn't include in your recent posts was a report card.  What did you think of the results you got?  Better than your previous attempts?  You've had some great success at this that I'm (unsuccessfully, so far) trying to match.
--pat--

Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #128 on: January 26, 2011, 08:20:08 AM »
Hi Pat,
 I really liked this pie. I think the Feta added a really nice touch to the overall flavor, and the under the cheese pepperoni had a more subtle, less "in your face" flavor.
 At the market, we gave some away to some folks, telling them that it was just an experimental pizza. To my delight, they returned and said it was good enough that they'd buy it every week if we included it in the menu! :)

Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #129 on: January 26, 2011, 07:28:47 PM »
wow,, that really looks close to perfect.   The only thing I tend to see at the better places around here is more oil and char on the bottom.   Was it placed right on a hot deck?     Maybe just more oil on the bottom and you would have it.   Some places making this style don't use any oil on the bottom, so dont take this the wrong way.  Many would say this is exactly the way they like it.   THe outside char on the cheese is exactly what I am looking for on a good greek pie and you did it better than just about anyone.   

Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #130 on: January 26, 2011, 10:43:02 PM »
Gee thanks, Scott! That means a lot to me coming from you.
 Yeah, cooked right on the deck at Norma427's stand. I think her oven runs at about 560-565 or so.
I only used enough oil to coat the pan and wiped off the excess. On a previous bake, I had so much oil in the pan that it created a seal around the rim so that the steam could not escape, and the whole pie turned into one big bubble! And of course the bottom didn't cook at all because it wasn't touching the pan!
So now I use less oil. :)

Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2011, 12:15:06 AM »
try a couple of fork pokes in the bottom of the crust before you apply the sauce.    or....just stick with less oil.   either way you have a good looking greek pie there.     

Online norma427

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #132 on: January 27, 2011, 07:12:35 AM »
Steve,

Of the two slices I took home, I reheated one slice last evening in my oven and the slice was just as tasty as when you made the Greek pizza.  ;D The side crunch was still there.  It was a nice treat after part of a day shoveling.  I gave the other slice to my daughter and she also really raved about the Greek pizza.  I think you had the right combination of everything on that pie.  :chef: The combination of cheese really also gave your Greek pizza a really different taste.  I might think about making your Greek pie each week at market.  I think it would really be a good seller.  I will wait until after all this bad weather is over though.  You did tell me, but is the first formula the one you used for the pie you make?

Back to the shoveling and snow blowing again today.  I guess you got a lot of snow, too.  :-D

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #133 on: January 27, 2011, 07:58:02 AM »
Thanks Norma, I'm glad you like it so well.
I used the formula above in post #125. I suppose you can scale it whatever size or shape pan you wish. This pie was 14". All my previous attempts were 10".
 For market purposes, I think you may want to try a different flour. The KABF is a little pricey and I'm not sure it's that much better than some other, cheaper flours.

Yeah, we got another 8 or 9 inches I guess. I had to shovel out my wifes' car at 5:30 this morning and drive her to work...............again! >:(
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 08:00:28 AM by Ev »


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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #134 on: January 27, 2011, 08:42:33 AM »
Thanks Norma, I'm glad you like it so well.
I used the formula above in post #125. I suppose you can scale it whatever size or shape pan you wish. This pie was 14". All my previous attempts were 10".
 For market purposes, I think you may want to try a different flour. The KABF is a little pricey and I'm not sure it's that much better than some other, cheaper flours.

Yeah, we got another 8 or 9 inches I guess. I had to shovel out my wifes' car at 5:30 this morning and drive her to work...............again! >:(

Steve,

If I have time I might try the Greek pizza at home this weekend.  I only have a sloping pan 12" pan at home.  I wonder how that would or wouldn’t work. I would think the cheese would melt to much on the sides and then burn. Did anyone on this thread try a sloping pan? 

At least you only have to deal with your home in shoveling.  I have my mother’s place and some other older neighbors places to deal with in all this snow.  I soon have to get myself outside and get started.  At least my snow blower does work now, since I repaired it.  What a relief that is.

Thanks for telling me about the formula.  :) If I have time I might get some Kyrol flour to try in the formula.  Did you ever try bromated flour in the formula?

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #135 on: January 27, 2011, 09:12:43 AM »
Norma, I believe Peter used a cutter pan in his early experiments with a similar recipe with good results. If your pan is like the one you gave me, I don't think you'll have any problems.
 The only time I used a different flour was when I had some leftover dough from the wfo, and that would have, of course, been Caputo.(blue bag, not pizzeria) These were doughs for a 12 inch pie that I used in a 10 inch pan. Came out great IIRC.
 I may soon try a plain AP flour like Ceresota and see what happens.

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #136 on: January 27, 2011, 09:32:30 AM »
Norma, I believe Peter used a cutter pan in his early experiments with a similar recipe with good results. If your pan is like the one you gave me, I don't think you'll have any problems.
 The only time I used a different flour was when I had some leftover dough from the wfo, and that would have, of course, been Caputo.(blue bag, not pizzeria) These were doughs for a 12 inch pie that I used in a 10 inch pan. Came out great IIRC.
 I may soon try a plain AP flour like Ceresota and see what happens.

Steve,

My deep-dish pan is just like the one I gave you.  Let me know if you try the Ceresota flour how it works for you.

Thanks for your help.  :)

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #137 on: January 27, 2011, 10:00:50 AM »
Norma,

I know that you have the Lehmann NY style dough formulation memorized at this point, but if you look at the Greek-style dough formulation I posted at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg27482.html#msg27482, you will see that it is really just a thicker version of the Lehmann formulation but with some sugar added and using a pan with some oil in it. Steve modified that formulation (as noted in Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg124557.html#msg124557) by using KABF flour instead of the KASL and by tweaking the values of the sugar, oil, salt and yeast (he also used a 14" pan with dough weight matched for that size). Given the similarity of those Greek-style formulations to the Lehmann dough formulation, I pondered the question this morning whether the preferment Lehmann formulation you have been using at market might also be usable to make a Greek-style pan pizza. Of course, the dough ball weight would have to conform to your pan size, but that shouldn't pose a problem. What do you think?

Peter

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #138 on: January 27, 2011, 01:59:45 PM »
Norma,

I know that you have the Lehmann NY style dough formulation memorized at this point, but if you look at the Greek-style dough formulation I posted at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg27482.html#msg27482, you will see that it is really just a thicker version of the Lehmann formulation but with some sugar added and using a pan with some oil in it. Steve modified that formulation (as noted in Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg124557.html#msg124557) by using KABF flour instead of the KASL and by tweaking the values of the sugar, oil, salt and yeast (he also used a 14" pan with dough weight matched for that size). Given the similarity of those Greek-style formulations to the Lehmann dough formulation, I pondered the question this morning whether the preferment Lehmann formulation you have been using at market might also be usable to make a Greek-style pan pizza. Of course, the dough ball weight would have to conform to your pan size, but that shouldn't pose a problem. What do you think?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for pondering over using the preferment Lehmann dough for a Greek-style pizza.  I never thought about using the preferment Lehmann dough to try a Greek-style pizza.  I have a few frozen dough balls at home I could try to see if they could successfully make a Greek-style pizza at home.  Do you know what weight of dough I would need for my sloping 11" across the bottom deep-dish pan to have about the same TF?  I do have two size dough balls frozen, but need to take the weights.  It would be great if I decided to make Greek-style pizzas at market and wouldn’t need to make two different doughs. 

I think it would be a good plan to try.  ;D Your mind is never stopping in thinking about new ideas to try.  I appreciate you thoughts over how similar the formula are.  I wonder what the sugar added would bring to the table, since I don’t have any sugar in my preferment Lehmann dough.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #139 on: January 27, 2011, 02:45:41 PM »
Norma,

When I first tried the Greek-style dough as discussed at Reply 20, I used a sloping sided PizzaTools 14" PSTK cutter pan and I shaped the skin to fit the bottom diameter of the pan (13.5 inches). At the time, the dough calculating tools did not exist and I did not use a bowl residue compensation. I did all the math using a calculator and possibly a spreadsheet. However, the pan size I used for calculation purposes was the 13.5" diameter of the bottom of the pan, relying on the fact that the dough would rise in the pan during the final proof before dressing and baking and fill it up to a certain extent. In your case, with your sloping sided pan with a bottom diameter of 11", you would need 3.14159 x (11/2) x (11/2) x 0.11, or 10.45 ounces/296.36 grams of dough.

If you discover that you can make a satisfactory Greek-style pizza using your preferment Lehmann dough formulation, you might be able to flip your preferment Lehmann formulation around to include some sugar, maybe up to 2% provided that the bottom crust doesn't brown too quickly or excessively. That will perhaps be less of an issue with your home oven than with your deck oven at market. If your preferment Lehmann formulation can tolerate some sugar, then you might find that you end up with only one dough for both types pizzas. Of course, the proof of the pudding (or should I say, pizza) will in the eating.

Peter

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #140 on: January 27, 2011, 05:46:12 PM »
Norma,

When I first tried the Greek-style dough as discussed at Reply 20, I used a sloping sided PizzaTools 14" PSTK cutter pan and I shaped the skin to fit the bottom diameter of the pan (13.5 inches). At the time, the dough calculating tools did not exist and I did not use a bowl residue compensation. I did all the math using a calculator and possibly a spreadsheet. However, the pan size I used for calculation purposes was the 13.5" diameter of the bottom of the pan, relying on the fact that the dough would rise in the pan during the final proof before dressing and baking and fill it up to a certain extent. In your case, with your sloping sided pan with a bottom diameter of 11", you would need 3.14159 x (11/2) x (11/2) x 0.11, or 10.45 ounces/296.36 grams of dough.

If you discover that you can make a satisfactory Greek-style pizza using your preferment Lehmann dough formulation, you might be able to flip your preferment Lehmann formulation around to include some sugar, maybe up to 2% provided that the bottom crust doesn't brown too quickly or excessively. That will perhaps be less of an issue with your home oven than with your deck oven at market. If your preferment Lehmann formulation can tolerate some sugar, then you might find that you end up with only one dough for both types pizzas. Of course, the proof of the pudding (or should I say, pizza) will in the eating.

Peter

Peter,

I appreciate you told me how much dough I will need for a Greek-style pizza in my deep-dish sloping pan.  I will weigh my doughs in the freezer tomorrow and see if one of them can be used in an experiment at home over the weekend.  I will also make one preferment Lehmann dough ball to try with added sugar to try at market on Tuesday, if it doesn’t snow in our area again.  I would really like to be able to use one dough at market and be able to make Greek-style pizza to see if anymore customers might be interested in trying them.  I know the one person that tried Steve’s (Ev) Greek-style he made really liked the Greek-style pizza.  I am sure other customers would also like the Greek-style pizza if we first gave samples.  I have 4 sloping deep-dish pans, so if the preferment Lehmann dough works out either with or without the sugar, it would be a breeze to make Greek-style pizza at market.  I also have the 18" steel deep-dish pan at market.

Steve’s Greek-style was delicious.  Did you ever try to put pepperoni on the Greek-style pizza like Steve did?  Also did you take any pictures of your last Greek-style pizza you made?

I will see if the proof is in the pudding (or in the pizza)!  Lol

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #141 on: January 27, 2011, 06:59:46 PM »
Steve’s Greek-style was delicious.  Did you ever try to put pepperoni on the Greek-style pizza like Steve did?  Also did you take any pictures of your last Greek-style pizza you made?

Norma,

No, I did not try putting the pepperoni under the cheese with any of my Greek-style pizzas. However, that is one of the trademark methods used by Buddy's in Detroit, as it points out in its menu at page 2 at http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Menu.pdf.

I did not take a photo of my last Greek-style pizza since it did not add anything of note worth reporting. I found my notes, however, and one change I made was to use a smaller amount of dough and thickness factor to make a 10" pizza. That change was based on information I gained some time ago from one of the owners of a Massachusetts pizzeria specializing in the Greek-style pizza. The thickness factor that I used to conform to what the pizzeria was doing was 0.08913 (7 ounces for a 10" pan). The finished pizza was thinner than my normal Greek-style pizzas using the modified Lehmann dough but it was still very tasty.

I think what really makes the Greek-style pizzas is the use of cheddar cheese (among other cheeses) and getting a nice crispy bottom. The Greek-style is one of my all-time favorites. I think it is underrecognized.

Peter


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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #142 on: January 27, 2011, 07:24:10 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for telling me the pepperoni under the cheese is a trademark method used by Buddy’s in Detroit. 

I also think the Greek style is under recognized.  Just because it doesn’t have a puffy rim, with the cheddar cheese, nice dark crisp rim and softness it is really a great pizza in my opinion too.  If it wasn’t for Steve remembering he ate the Greek-style a long while ago, I probably wouldn’t have tried the Greek-style for a long while.

Norma
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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #143 on: January 29, 2011, 08:23:01 PM »
I removed one preferment Lehmann dough ball from my freezer that was smaller.  It wasn’t the right weight Peter set-forth for a Greek-style pizza, so after it was unfrozen in the mircowave, I just cut off a small portion until it weighed the right weight.  I didn’t want to waste the small piece of dough so I used that for another experiment.  I pressed on the edges and the middle of the dough while it was in the deep-dish pan so the dough wouldn’t rise too much while it was in the oven.

I must say the preferment Lehmann dough did work out well for a Greek-style pizza in my sloping deep-dish pan.  My home oven was around 500 degrees F and I put the deep-dish pan right on the stone on the second to the bottom rack position.  I was surprised how well the preferment Lehmann dough worked out for this pie.  The edges turned out nice and crunchy and the bottom browned well. The deep-dish pan was slightly oiled.  What really surprised me was the crust of this Greek-style pizza tasted so much different than my regular pizzas I made with the preferment Lehmann dough.  I don’t see why any sugar would have to be added to my preferment Lehmann dough formula.  I really enjoyed the slices of the Greek-style pie I ate.  ;D

Thanks Peter for figuring out how much dough I needed for my sloping deep-dish pan. 

Pictures below

Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #144 on: January 29, 2011, 08:25:19 PM »
rest of pictures

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #145 on: January 29, 2011, 08:52:44 PM »
Norma,

I'm glad the Lehmann Greek-style pizza worked out well for you. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier. If you hadn't decided to reheat a couple of slices from Steve's Greek-style pizza and to comment favorably on it, I think I would have missed it. In retrospect, it was in the numbers.

Do you think that your Lehmann Greek-style pizza was good enough to offer at market? Also, at some point you might want to repeat the experiment but using your regular preferment Lehmann dough (not frozen) and your oven at market. It might still be an interesting experiment to modify your preferment Lehmann dough to see if that works better for the Greek style pizza but not adversely affect your regular preferment Lehmann pizzas.

Can you tell me what weight of dough you are currently using to make the preferment Lehmann pizzas at market?

Peter

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #146 on: January 29, 2011, 09:10:13 PM »
Norma,

I'm glad the Lehmann Greek-style pizza worked out well for you. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier. If you hadn't decided to reheat a couple of slices from Steve's Greek-style pizza and to comment favorably on it, I think I would have missed it. In retrospect, it was in the numbers.

Do you think that your Lehmann Greek-style pizza was good enough to offer at market? Also, at some point you might want to repeat the experiment but using your regular preferment Lehmann dough (not frozen) and your oven at market. It might still be an interesting experiment to modify your preferment Lehmann dough to see if that works better for the Greek style pizza but not adversely affect your regular preferment Lehmann pizzas.

Can you tell me what weight of dough you are currently using to make the preferment Lehmann pizzas at market?

Peter

Peter,

I am also glad the preferment Lehmann dough did work out well for the Greek-style of pizza.  I am also glad you decided to look at the numbers after I reheated Steve’s slice of Greek-style pizza. 

Yes, I do believe the Lehmann Greek-style pizza is good enough to offer at market.  If it doesn’t snow a lot on Tuesday I will repeat the experiment with my unfrozen Lehmann dough at market.  I had planned on Monday to use some of my poolish to make at least one or possibly 5 dough balls with sugar to see what would happen to my preferment Lehmann dough.  If it doesn’t snow a lot, I will still do the experiments this week.  If they are calling for a lot of snow, I will just make the regular preferment Lehmann dough and try the experiment the next week. 

The weight of my dough balls at market now are 1.995 lbs.  I can weigh out any amount, but found I like the crusts on my regular NY style pizzas a little thicker than I did before.  I usually have some extra dough leftover from the batches I make, but I just use them for other things I made at market.

Thanks again for thinking about a Greek-style pizza out of my regular dough.  :)

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #147 on: January 29, 2011, 09:16:55 PM »
The weight of my dough balls at market now are 1.995 lbs.

Norma,

Are you sure about that number? 1.995 pounds is just under 32 ounces. That would translate to a thickness factor of about 0.16.

Peter

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #148 on: January 29, 2011, 09:33:19 PM »
Norma,

Are you sure about that number? 1.995 pounds is just under 32 ounces. That would translate to a thickness factor of about 0.16.

Peter

Peter,

That was my error.  I meant to type in 1.095 lbs.

Norma
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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #149 on: January 29, 2011, 09:56:04 PM »
Norma,

Thank you.

The reason why I asked you the dough ball weight is because I wondered what size pan (cutter or deep-dish) you could use, based on a thickness factor of 0.11, without having to change your current dough ball weight of 1.095 pounds. That number (diameter) is calculated by taking two times the square root of (1.096 x 16)/(3.14159 x 0.11). The answer is a diameter of about 14.25". If we treat that as the bottom diameter of a sloping-sided pan, you can see from the PizzaTools website at http://www.pizzatools.com/Cutter_Pans/30870/subgrouping.htm that that would represent a 15" PSTK cutter pan or a 15" PSTK nesting deep-dish pan as shown at http://www.pizzatools.com/Deep_Dish_Nesting/30872/subgrouping.htm. If a preferment Lehmann Greek-style pizza would bake up well in such a pan, and it could be sold (i.e., there is a demand for it), then you could use the same dough ball for the Greek-style pizza as you now use for your 16" NY style.

Peter