Greek pizza

[norma427]

CDNpielover and cmydem,

I don’t know if this will help you in your search on how to make a Atlas Greek Style Pizza, but I contacted Darell Hartlen by email last Friday that wrote the article that I posted at Reply 483 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg236326.html#msg236326  Darell’s email address was at the bottom of that second link I posted.  Darell replied to my email today.  This is what he said.

Hi Norma!

Sorry for the delay in responding.

I didn't personally see the convection oven, but when writing the article I did call and speak to a staff member at Atlas (it was a few years ago, so please forgive me that I don't remember offhand who it was specifically).

From my personal experiences in dabbling with convection, my pizzas seem to match up with similar results to those that Atlas are getting, so I'm guessing that the deck oven had a fan added, but I can't say that with 100% certainty.

I hope this helps and please do let me know if there's anything else I can do!

Cheers,

Darell

If there is anything else you want me to ask Darell let me know.  I told Darell I was trying to help a friend that wants to make an Atlas pizza at home and I didn’t live in Canada, but my friend did.

Norma

[CDNpielover]

Thanks Norma!  It seems like the convection oven may be important for getting the cheese crust.  I wonder what the best way to replicate that would be.  I think cmyden was going to try with a heat gun, hopefully he reports his results here soon.

[cmyden]

Thanks Norma and Darell!

Here's my new gameplan, based on what I've learned...

<<< My attempt to re-create Atlas Pizza

[Equipment]

- 12" cutter pan, with 1 inch straight wall
- Food processor
- American Weigh Signature Series Black AWS-100 Digital Pocket Scale for precise measurements of ingredients
- Convection oven with a large slab of cordierite on the bottom rack

[Ingredients]

Dough:

- Bakers Five Roses flour from The Italian Store (12.05% protein)
- water
- instant dry yeast
- salt
- olive oil (not extra virgin)
- soybean oil
- sugar

Cheese:

- Franco's Mozzarella from Alberta Cheese Company
- White Cheddar
- Provolone


Sauce:

- Can of Franco's Crushed Tomatoes
- Oregano
- Cinnamon

Toppings:

- ham
- pineapple

Other:

- canola oil

[Dough Formulation for 12" pizza]

Flour (100%):            179.26 g  |  6.32 oz | 0.4 lbs
Water (50.8561%):         91.17 g  |  3.22 oz | 0.2 lbs
IDY (0.5%):            0.9 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.3 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
Salt (1.77188%):         3.18 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.57 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
Olive Oil (0.4%):         0.72 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.16 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.6%):      6.45 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.42 tsp | 0.47 tbsp
Sugar (2.10938%):         3.78 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.95 tsp | 0.32 tbsp
Total (159.23736%):         285.46

[Sauce Preparation, the night before Pizza Day]

- Take 1 can of Franco's Crushed Tomatoes and strain it well.

- Put oregano and cinnamon in a small container, moisten with water (not enough to have standing water though), and then microwave on 30% power for 2 minutes to denature the proteins and help release the goodness.  

- Let this cool and then mix into your tomatoes to create the sauce.

- May wish to add salt or sugar to taste.

- Leave the sauce in the fridge overnight.


[Dough Preparation, Morning Of Pizza Day]

- Into the bowl of the food processor, add 179.3 g of flour, 3.2 g of salt, 3.8 g of sugar, and 0.9 g of IDY.

- In a container that's easy to pour with, mix together 91.2 g of water, 0.72 g of olive oil, and 6.45 g of vegetable (soybean).  Heat in microwave until warm.

- Turn on food processor to mix the dry ingredients, and slowly add all of the water & oil mixture,  Stop the food processor once a ball has formed.

- Liberally oil the 12" pizza pan with canola oil.  

- Press dough out into the pizza pan.

- Allow dough to rise at room temp in the pan for an hour and 40 minutes.  

- Place pizza pan and dough in fridge, cover with saran wrap.

[On Pizza Day]

- Start pre-heating the convection oven at 400F for about 50 minutes.

- At the 50 minute mark, take the pizza pan with the dough on it out of the fridge.  Press the dough out again.

- Apply a liberal amount of sauce to the dough, all the way to the edge.

screenshots showing how much sauce to use:

http://s4.postimage.org/7uli9dgq5/Clipboard02.jpg

http://s4.postimage.org/wf22xucbx/Clipboard02.jpg

- Add your toppings.

- Apply 50:30:20 blend (mozzarella / cheddar / provolone) of cheese, right to the edge.

  Use a liberal amount of cheese, as shown in this screenshot:
  
  http://s12.postimage.org/9ab0kw0t9/Clipboard02.jpg
  
  Note: I believe Atlas uses 100% mozzarella, not a blend, but will experiment with this.

- Cook for 20-25 minutes on the stone on the bottom rack in the 400 degree oven.  


[Things To Test]

- Using a high temperature heat gun on the cheese after baking to create the 'cheese crust'.

- Adding parmesan cheese powder to the top after baking and hitting it with a heat gun

- How about mid-bake, after the cheese has pretty much melted, you brush on a coat of melted butter and finish the bake?


[Simulating the Garland E56P oven]

I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to replicate the Garland E56P oven, beyond using a regular home oven with convection capability along with a large slab of cordierite in the bottom.

The Garland E56P oven apparently circulates hot air above and below the cooking area, as well as through slots that 'meet the product at the deck surface'.

screenshot: http://s12.postimage.org/kbtl5zswt/Clipboard02.jpg

After the air meets, it is then recirculated through the back of the oven.  This forms a heat curtain at the door opening.  Adjustable dampers independently control upper and lower airflow velocities.

[norma427]

cmyden,

Good luck replicating the Atlas Greek pizza.  Sounds like you have a good pan of attack.

I did send Darell another email to see if he would give the dough formulation or recipe he uses for a Atlas pizza.  I will wait and see if he answers me.

Norma

[CDNpielover]

cmyden,

Good luck replicating the Atlas Greek pizza.  Sounds like you have a good pan of attack.

I did send Darell another email to see if he would give the dough formulation or recipe he uses for a Atlas pizza.  I will wait and see if he answers me.

Norma

FWIW, I remember reading Darell's pizza and burger columns in FFWD.  IMO, he didn't really know much about pizza, and I always wondered why FFWD gave that column to such a non-expert.  If he offers advice about a dough formulation, I would take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for emailing him though, Norma, but I just thought I would offer my opinion after reading that column every week for the year or so that it existed.   

[norma427]

FWIW, I remember reading Darell's pizza and burger columns in FFWD.  IMO, he didn't really know much about pizza, and I always wondered why FFWD gave that column to such a non-expert.  If he offers advice about a dough formulation, I would take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for emailing him though, Norma, but I just thought I would offer my opinion after reading that column every week for the year or so that it existed.   

CDNpielover,

I didn’t know Darell had a pizza and burger column in FFWD.  You are right he probably doesn’t know much about pizza dough.

I appreciate your opinion. 

Norma

[cmyden]

Just an update, I attempted making a few pizzas over the weekend using the method outlined in post #500.  I used 100% mozza though, rather than the 3 cheese blend.

I used a friend's home oven that has convection (with my slab of cordierite in the bottom).

Tried the first pizza at 400F, preheated for about an hour, using the 'convection bake' setting, and baking for just over 20 minutes.    Tried the second pizza at 375F, using the 'convection roast' setting.       Googling around, apparently the difference between the two settings is that 'convection roast' blows the hot air around more often. 

The result for both pies was fairly similar, with the cheese eventually reaching the typical spotty brown color that I get when making pizza at home, rather than the more uniform 'golden crispiness on top, with gooey cheesy goodness underneath' that I was hoping to achieve, like shown in this pic:  http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CyDyLLXomqo/TgOlyQDmF3I/AAAAAAAAALw/jnjPUR0P32Q/s1600/Atlas4.JPG

Considering all the variables, I have to think it probably just comes down to the oven environment, and that a home convection oven doesn't quite simulate whatever is going on in the Garland E56P which is 'continually introducing new heated air through each air slot' rather than just blowing the already heated air around inside.  Maybe I can try Macgyvering my newly acquired heat gun to do the same  

I did try using the heat gun on one of the baked pizzas, but it mostly just resulted in pushing the cheese off the pizza and onto my plate.  Might need to try that again with better technique and more patience.

[CDNpielover]

Aside from the crispy crust, how did the pies turn out?  Can you share any pics? 

You might try asking Tom Lehmann in the "Ask the dough doctor" section of the forum, as Norma has suggested.

[norma427]

I had a little Lehmann dough left after balling Tuesday and also a little leftover Detroit style dough so I just place them on top of each other and balled to see how that would work out when trying to open a dough ball and to see if they would mesh together without me kneading the two doughs.  I used the mixed dough ball to make a Greek style pizza.  The dough ball was very soft and opened like a normal dough ball.  I usually open the dough ball for a Greek style pizza part way as I would normally open and dough ball then it is pressed out some more in the round steel pan.  It seemed to work well.  I wonder how those two dough balls meshed together so well and what was going on inside that dough ball that was cold fermented for less than a day.  The steel pan was brushed with Canola oil.

Norma

[norma427]

Sometimes a mistake can lead to something different.  I usually sauce this style of pizza first, but forgot to sauce it first yesterday so I just put the sauce (in dollops) on top before it went into the oven.  All the other top ingredients were the same as my last post.  At least it looked okay to me after it was baked.

The sign really isn’t true either, but customers find it interesting.  Usually Greek style pizzas aren’t as thick as mine, but then I just use my regular Lehmann dough ball size for my Greek style pizzas.  It is easier that way for me than trying to decide how many different weight dough balls to make for any given day.

Norma

[CDNpielover]

beautiful!

[norma427]

beautiful!

CDNpielover,

Thanks!

Norma

[wrm2012]

I made this Greek pizza bar style using the recipe in reply #20.  Only made one change and instead of using a 14 cutter pan I used a 16 inch.  It turned out great!  The family said it was the best pizza I’ve made so far out of the few I’ve been making.  And that is even with me over cooking it a hair. Thanks Pete-zza for the recipe.

[Pete-zza]

Bill,

I'm glad that the recipe worked out for you and that your family liked the pizza. This thread has become a popular one with a lot of good recipes for you to try. There are a surprising number of variations in this style.

Peter

[wrm2012]

Wow this is one long thread.  I'm going to have to try some of these other recipes.  If they turn out as good as the first one they'll be winners.  Any idea what the thickness factor would be on the recipe in post #20 but with a 16 inch pan instead of the 14 inch?  I thought it turned out to be a great pizza.  Everyone loved the crunchy cheese at the edge.

[Pete-zza]

Bill,

Do you mean using the amount of dough for the 16" size as for the 14" size?

Peter

[wrm2012]

Yes Pete that is what I did.  I used the recipe just as it was in post #20, and then put it in a 16 inch pan and not a 14 inch pan.  I ended up making the dough before I saw your conversion for a 16 inch pan.    I thought what the heck I'll just use it in my 16 inch pan as some seemed to post  the recipe was on the thicker side in the 14 pan anyways.  I'll say it was a great pizza and was really not a thick or a thin crust right between maybe about 1/4of an inch thick.

[Pete-zza]

Yes Pete that is what I did.  I used the recipe just as it was in post #20, and then put it in a 16 inch pan and not a 14 inch pan.  I ended up making the dough before I saw your conversion for a 16 inch pan.    I thought what the heck I'll just use it in my 16 inch pan as some seemed to post  the recipe was on the thicker side in the 14 pan anyways.  I'll say it was a great pizza and was really not a thick or a thin crust right between maybe about 1/4of an inch thick.

Bill,

To answer your question, if you put 15.75 ounces of dough into a 16" cutter pan instead of a 14" cutter pan, and if we use the bottom diameter of the 16" pan (15.25", or a radius of 7.625"), then the thickness factor is 15.75/(3.14159 x 7.625 x 7.625) = 0.0862. If, alternatively, we use a diameter midway between 15.25" and 16", which is the top diameter of the pan, we get a thickness factor of 15.75/(3.14159 x 7.8125 x 7.8125) = 0.08214. As you can see, there is not much of a difference. To modify the recipe you used to adapt it to the 16" cutter pan, you should be able to use either thickness factor in the expanded dough calculating tool and come reasonably close to the results you want.

Peter

[wrm2012]

First I just want to say that the dough calculating tool  is really cool.  I've been playing with it and think I've gotten the hang of it.
Alright my daughter requested this pizza for dinner tonight as she left for school this morning.  No time for 24 hours in the fridge.  So I made up the dough, using recipe in reply #20, the 15.75 oz size.  I then put the dough ball into a bowl and let it double in size at room temp.  About 2 hours.  Then I pressed it into a round and then put it into my 16 cutter pan and let it rise for another 2 hours.  This one was sauce and cheese only.  I cooked at 450 degrees for 10 min turning it at 5 min.  Top and sides turned out perfect.  The cheese was 50% mozzarella, 25% cheddar, and 25% Provolone that I shredded.  I wish the bottom was done /fried just a little more.  I used olive oil in the bottom of the pan.  I probably could have left it in a little longer.  I think next time I may try using my pizza stone preheated to 500 degrees and set the pan right on top of it.  I think that is what I did last time. Or I may try a higher heat without the stone.  Any suggestions on what may work better?

[Ev]

Try lifting one edge of your pie to check for doneness once the top looks nearly done. If it needs more time, you can put some foil over the top to keep it from over browning.