Author Topic: Greek pizza  (Read 125371 times)

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Offline KJ

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2007, 03:50:31 PM »
Hello! I hunted until I found this thread again.  I wrote here a couple of years ago --- but am in the position now where I'm beginning my business plan for a place for teenagers.  (Does every other community have the same problem where there's absolutely NOTHING for teenagers to do?)  Well, having three of them I decided that I was sick to death of the locals giving them grief because they like to skateboard.  You have punks everywhere --- but skateboarding kids, on the whole, are good kids.

I digress.

I'm opening a restaurant/teen club/skateboard park in the suburbs of Richmond, which will feature my very favorite South Shore BAR PIZZA.  No liquor license.  Definitely a Play Station Cafe, Wi-Fi, Arcade and Pool Tables.... big ol' skateboard park, dance floor and sound system.

The food---- bar pizza, a few salads, (Which HAS to include a Greek Salad.  A REAL Greek Salad... not the stuff they serve here and call Greek Salad....), burgers and fries. (And in case you're wondering... the beverages will be Red Bull, Monster, Bottled Water, Gatorade, a complete Coffee bar, smoothies and exotic non-alcoholic drinks).

I did it again. Sorry, but I'm pretty excited.

Back to the pizza.


I've been experimenting and agree that a simple, smooth sauce seasoned with Oregano best replicates what I remember.

I also use 100% cheddar cheese (The folks at Cape Cod Cafe were very accommodating and told me that they only use 100% white cheddar).  (As a side note, it's pretty hard to find white cheddar in Virginia.  Everything's orange.  Even American Cheese... yuck).  I've resorted to using Cracker Barrel until I can start purchasing in bulk.

I've used a simple bread dough recipe and it's ok -- but not quite like I remember.  Letting the dough rise in the pan works best and I've been successful with the time/temp.... although here in my home oven it's 475 for 13 minutes. (500 degrees creates a lava flow of cheese like I've never seen!) Once I get the pizza ovens I'm sure they'll be more experimenting.....

I wanted to double check these measures for a 10" pizza.....

1/4C sauce
3/4C Cheese

Everything pulled right out to the edge.  Yummy.

Sound right?


Scott -- you mentioned the American pizza dough?  I'll take a look.

Thanks for keeping this thread alive.   If I can nail down the dough I think we've got a winner.

Have a great day!
KJ 



Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2007, 04:32:41 PM »
kj, try canadaves dough or lehmann with sugar and oil.  These are both great for bar style.  I make them for my wife all the time with the lehmann and she likes it better than christo's (her favorite).  Yes, the key is the pan rise, and well seasoned pans with a bit of oil in there before the crust.

Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2007, 12:55:23 PM »
I forgot to mention, make sure you get the mild cracker barrel

Offline elicheez

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2007, 07:34:36 PM »
Scott,

I've been meaning to ask about that. What sharpness of cheddar to places typically use? I've found that the Shaws store-brand "sharp" has about the right flavor (at the right price), but it's really more of a "medium" than "sharp". 

thanks!
e

Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2007, 08:24:41 PM »
mild seems to be the most used

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2007, 08:08:39 PM »
Made up another dough ball for Peter's greek pie recipe on Wed, used the Harvest King again. I have picked up many blocks of Cabbot white cheddar at BJ's over the last couple of days that were miss priced. Most have a $5.49 lb price on them but if you go to the bottom of the mild cheddar row there's a whole bunch that have a $3.99 lb price on them. Somebody must have marked a whole box wrong then someone stacked the right price ones on top.  :o They all have a 08 expiration date on them. Hey, they raised my Sorrento Mozz up by $4.00 a 5lb block in the last couple of months  >:(  so I getting some cheese revenge.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 08:19:26 PM by Bryan S »
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Offline zalicious

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2008, 09:17:55 PM »
I read this thread with great interest, as years ago I used to enjoy pizza from the 'Salem House of Pizza' on Bostons North Shore. Wednesday, I made the dough following Pete-zza's recipe from post #20. I cooked the pie today paying careful attention to the instructions from scott r ( post #17 ) & Pete-zza. Boy, was it good! I actually impressed my hubby :chef:. It's been at least 18 yrs since I've had one from there, so I don't know how close I got; but this recipe is a keeper! Thanks so very much.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 09:19:48 PM by zalicious »

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2008, 11:13:25 PM »
I read this thread with great interest, as years ago I used to enjoy pizza from the 'Salem House of Pizza' on Bostons North Shore. Wednesday, I made the dough following Pete-zza's recipe from post #20. I cooked the pie today paying careful attention to the instructions from scott r ( post #17 ) & Pete-zza. Boy, was it good! I actually impressed my hubby :chef:. It's been at least 18 yrs since I've had one from there, so I don't know how close I got; but this recipe is a keeper! Thanks so very much.
It really is a great recipe. Glad to hear you liked it. For those of us who've had the pleasure of eating Greek style pizza, this recipe is a Keeper!!!!!!! Like I said in one of my above posts, I could go to the "Friendly Greek" In Lancaster and buy one of these but it tastes so much better making your own.  ;D
Making great pizza and learning new things everyday.

Offline Barbarainnc

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2008, 06:53:14 PM »
I found a recipe for ladenia, Greek Pizza.  Do a search for it for the recipe, there is a video on how to make it on "You Tube".  It is said to come from the island of Kimolos. There are a few blogs written about ladenia. 


Offline Fingerstyle

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2008, 03:26:05 PM »
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.0.html

I am SO glad this thread resurfaced. ;D  I had about given up on trying to replicate an Alfio's pie (DC in the 70's, now in Chevy Chase MD). As it was unique among area pies, it had not occurred to me to classify it as Greek. I knew it had provolone (proportion unknown). I always thought the crust was good, but for me it was the sauce, cheese and pepperoni combo - WOW. While no longer nearly as great as it used to be,  Alfio's remains distinctive. I still haven't had another even close to it.

I've got my 3rd batch of (Villa Roma) whole wheat in the works now, but I'm trying your recipe Greek Pizza next. I'm hoping that the white cheddar is the key.  Thanks again Peter for blazing the recipe trail!


Vic
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Offline WestCountry

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2008, 08:33:31 PM »
Hi Peter -
I want to give this recipe a shot!  :chef:
Is the KASL flour a must-have (if so, I can special order), or would King Arthur Bread Flour  work (which I have on hand)?

I'll post some photos of my results.

Thanks!
Chris

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2008, 08:51:43 PM »
Chris,

I think you should be OK using the King Arthur bread flour, although I haven't personally tried the bread flour with the recipe. I would also keep the hydration the same or, if you wish, lower it by 1% to 62% to reflect the rated absorption of the KA bread flour.

I look forward to seeing your photos of the finished pizza.

Peter

Offline WestCountry

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2008, 08:34:48 PM »
Thanks Peter - I'll give it a try and post update with photo's! :)
Chris

Offline Hiney

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2009, 06:01:00 PM »
A bg Favor. I knew Tony many years ago at his last restaurant in Richmond. I live in Europe and will visit Viriginia next week. Would appreciate any info about the rstaurant still operating. thanks a lot

Offline Modegolf

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2010, 09:39:38 AM »
Peter,

I found this Greek pizza dough recipe at pizzaware.com:

1 envelope - Active dry yeast
˝ tsp. - Sugar
2/3 cup - Lukewarm (110° - 115°F) water
2 cups - Bread flour or unbleached, all-purpose flour
1/4 cup - Stone-ground cornmeal
1˝ tsp - Coarse salt (kosher or sea salt)
2 tbsp - Extra virgin Greek olive oil
2 tbsp - Greek oregano, finely chopped

Would you help to convert this to baker’s percents and gram weights?  I wanted to compare it to your Greek pizza dough formula in:

Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2006, 09:08:21 PM »
 
I have become very suspicious of pizza recipes on the internet, but this one seems to be legit.

Thank you!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #65 on: April 26, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »
Modegolf,

I found the dough recipe you referenced and the related instructions to make the dough at http://www.pizzaware.com/greekpizza.htm. scott r is a better one than I to comment on the authenticity of the recipe but I do not recall that cornmeal is used in a Greek/pub style dough as contemplated in this thread or that oregano is used in such a dough. Since the recipe says that the oregano should be "finely chopped", that would suggest fresh oregano. The dough recipe is also fuzzy as to the use of the oil. The dough recipe calls for olive oil but in the instructions it says to sprinkle/drizzle olive oil over the pizza. Maybe it is multiple uses of olive oil but it is not entirely clear. I perhaps can take a stab at converting the recipe to baker's percent format if you can tell me what type and brand of flour you want to use, the type and brand of salt you would plan to use (especially if Kosher), and whether you want the olive oil (2 T.) to go into the dough.

I might add that my recollection is that Greek/pub style doughs got more fermentation than a few hours. The recipe you referenced is one that I would classify as an "emergency" type dough to be made and used in only a few hours. Also, an authentic Greek/pub style pizza as contemplated in this thread uses a cheese blend that typically includes cheddar cheese as part of the blend. It's possible that the recipe you referenced is to make a pizza that uses Greek style cheeses and toppings but is not a "Greek/pub" style pizza as contemplated in this thread.

Not long ago, I spotted a Greek style dough recipe at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5022&p=29426&hilit=#p29426. I can't tell you whether that is a common dough formulation but it seems to be in the ballpark in terms of ingredients used and the way the dough is prepared and managed.

Peter

Offline Modegolf

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2010, 11:52:54 AM »
Thank You Peter...

...for your reply.  I have abandoned my interest with the dough recipe on which I asked your opinion.  I will proceed with the formula you provided previously.  I should never have shopped around!

As a brief follow up question, do you know if Mozz/White Cheddar or Mozz/White Cheddar/Provalone is considered a more authentic blend for a Greek/Bar style pie?  Same question for a Buddy's/Detroit style.

I appreciate your time, expertise, and patience with my newbie questions!


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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2010, 12:10:23 PM »
Modegolf,

I would say that blends made with mozzarella, cheddar (white) and Provolone cheeses are typical of the Greek/pub style but maybe with a lesser emphasis on the Provolone cheese. I doubt that there is only one type of blend. Each pizza operator will play around with blends to find the preferred form. If scott r reads this post, he may be able to offer a more definitive and accurate opinion on the matter of cheese blends used in the Greek style. He may already have done so earlier in this thread, so you might want to read the thread more completely if you haven't already done so.

I believe that Buddy's has changed cheeses and suppliers. You may want to post your question on their current cheeses in the Buddy's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.0.html so that we don't steer this thread in a new direction unrelated to the Greek style.

Peter

Offline zestiovens

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2010, 12:57:32 PM »
Try a mixture of  Kefalotiri which is a hard cheese made in Greece and a sprinkling of Haloumi cheese from Cyprus with a good virgin olive oil along with some dryed mint ! and garlic in a hot oven around 650 degress, this is a great greek Pizza

Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2010, 01:29:50 PM »
Thank You Peter...

...for your reply.  I have abandoned my interest with the dough recipe on which I asked your opinion.  I will proceed with the formula you provided previously.  I should never have shopped around!

As a brief follow up question, do you know if Mozz/White Cheddar or Mozz/White Cheddar/Provalone is considered a more authentic blend for a Greek/Bar style pie?  Same question for a Buddy's/Detroit style.

I appreciate your time, expertise, and patience with my newbie questions!

The most popular cheese for a New England style greek pizza is 100% mild white cheddar.   Many places also throw in some mozzarella, provolone, or both.   

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2010, 01:45:58 PM »
Try a mixture of  Kefalotiri which is a hard cheese made in Greece and a sprinkling of Haloumi cheese from Cyprus with a good virgin olive oil along with some dryed mint ! and garlic in a hot oven around 650 degress, this is a great greek Pizza

Theo,

In the U.S., there is a style of pizza that is sold mainly in the northeast part of the U.S. and referred to as "Greek" style, mostly because the folks who originated that style were Greek (the Greeks still dominate this style). It is a pan style pizza. Some of the operators may use cheeses and toppings that are based on Greek cooking, but the Greek pan style does not depend on those ingredients. The purpose of this thread is to explore the Greek pan style pizza, not those using uniquely Greek ingredients and toppings (see the opening post at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.0.html).

I do like your suggestion, however. I will have to look for the cheeses you mentioned to see if they are available in the Dallas area where I live. I know I can get them back in the Northeast, which is an option the next time I am up there on vacation.

Peter

Offline ERASMO

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2010, 02:06:53 PM »
Pete

How do you feel about that PMQ recipe.

The percentages seem extreme.  Seems like alot of sugar and alot of oil.  What will that do to the dough?


Offline scott r

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2010, 02:45:57 PM »
sorry to hijack erasmo, that recipe looks to be what many places around here are using minus the garlic with less oil (but still a lot).  The high sugar and oil content makes for a very soft dough that will brown up very easily even with oven temps of 400.   Its a cost efficient pizza as far as electric and gas bills go.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 02:47:38 PM by scott r »

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2010, 03:31:43 PM »
ERASMO,

I saw that scott r was posting as I was composing a reply. His input is always a valuable one on this subject.

I wish the PMQTT recipe had given a typical dough ball weight and corresponding pan size since that would have told me more than what I can get from just looking at the recipe itself. However, the high baker's percents for the sugar and oil suggest that the finished crumb will be soft and tender, much as scott r noted. The sugar is hygroscopic, so it will help retain moisture in the dough and the large amount of oil will tend to reduce the rate at which the moisture evaporates from the dough during baking. Assuming that the skins are given a chance to rise sufficiently before dressing and baking, there should be some height to the finished crust. I would guess that a bromated flour will work best for this style of pizza because it helps retain the volume of the dough during proofing prior to dressing and baking. The crispiness of the crust will come from the oil in the pan, which will help "fry" the outer crust in contact with the pan.

I think the 48.5% hydration should work with the "wetness" contributed by the 10% oil to yield an "effective" hydration of 58.5%. That value would permit using a sheeter, or a rolling pin at home, to form the final skin that is to go into a pan. Once panned, the skin should be given sufficient proof time.

Except for the granulated garlic, it should be pretty straightforward to use the baker's percents for the PMQTT recipe to come up with a dough ball or two to play around with. I think I would use a thickness factor of between 0.09-0.11 as a starting point. The expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html should help come up with ingredient quantities.

I have observed that there is a paucity of dough recipes on the Internet for the "Greek" style pizza. At the store level, I have also noted that there can be variations in the finished pizzas from one pizzeria to another. The commonality seems to be the use of a dough that is proofed in a pan with a lot of oil, and the use of white cheddar cheese alone or as part of a blend. Bromated flour may also be a fairly common component, and oregano seems to be common in the sauce.

You can see the menu of the last "Greek" pizza place I visited, which is run by a Greek husband and wife team, at http://www.saugus.com/images/PDFS/stellasoct2009menu.pdf. They use 7 ounces of dough for the 10" pan size. The flour is General Mills Full Strength flour, which is a bromated flour. From what I was told, I calculated a hydration of around 50%. However, there no doubt are other ingredients. Maybe in a future visit I can get more information on their particular dough formulation.

Peter


Offline ERASMO

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Re: Greek pizza
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2010, 03:57:18 PM »
Thanks for the info.

I am going to work on this dough this week.


 

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