Author Topic: How can I make this better?  (Read 1317 times)

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Offline Chef_Boy-R-Dee

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How can I make this better?
« on: December 15, 2008, 06:35:04 PM »
Hello All,

 I have a recipe that I just started using and I wanted to put it out there for feedback and suggestions.

Hopefully I'm in the right category...Anyways, here it is:

18 oz. KABF
3 1/4 tsp Kosher Salt
3/4 tsp. ADY
30 Grams Starter
14 Oz. H20 @ 80 degrees

* Mix all ingredients on low in KA for 4 min to incorporate...let rest for 12 min...mix an additional 5 minutes to incorporate an additional 3 oz. flour...take out of mixer and hand knead for 5 minutes or until successful windowpane. Leave on counter for 25 minutes, then pop in fridge. Scaled the following day...Let it retard for 2 or 3 days, and then use.

Overall it was pretty good. It was cooked for about 8 minutes in a conventional gas oven that was set at 550 and preheated for 1 hour, and lined with quarry tiles that were reading 567 degrees when put in. The flavor was somewhat mild, with minimal flavor from the grain and the starter. Had a decent crust, but I think I could have a better one when I have better dough handling techniques. I also think I could have cooked it just a little more....Sorry no pics.
 
Let me know your thoughts!!!!

B-R-D
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 06:43:51 PM by Chef_Boy-R-Dee »
"Simplicity is Complexity Resolved"

-Constantin Brancusi


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How can I make this better?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 06:58:08 PM »
B-R-D,

Can you tell me which brand of Kosher salt you are using and also what percent of the starter is water (i.e, the weight of the water divided by the combined weight of the flour and water)?

Peter

Offline Chef_Boy-R-Dee

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Re: How can I make this better?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2008, 07:48:09 PM »
Hey Peter,

The salt that I use is Diamond and the starter is a 50/50 mix. So right now, I just took my starter out of the fridge to re-fresh....it is:

60 grams starter
30 grams H20
30 grams KABF

I used Alan Scott's method for starting my culture...


Thanks,

B-R-D
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 08:34:39 PM by Chef_Boy-R-Dee »
"Simplicity is Complexity Resolved"

-Constantin Brancusi

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How can I make this better?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2008, 08:43:34 PM »
B-R-D,

I ran your numbers through the forum's preferment dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment_calculator.html, and if I got all of the math right, your recipe looks like this:

Total Formula:
Flour (100%):
Water (67.4859%):
Salt (1.81043%):
ADY (0.46445%):
Total (169.76078%):

Preferment:
Flour:
Water:
Total:

Final Dough:
Flour:
Water:
Salt:
ADY:
Preferment:
Total:

610.35 g  |  21.53 oz | 1.35 lbs
411.9 g  |  14.53 oz | 0.91 lbs
11.05 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.25 tsp | 1.08 tbsp
2.83 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
1036.13 g | 36.55 oz | 2.28 lbs | TF = N/A
 
 
15 g | 0.53 oz | 0.03 lbs
15 g | 0.53 oz | 0.03 lbs
30 g | 1.06 oz | 0.07 lbs

 
595.35 g | 21 oz | 1.31 lbs
396.9 g | 14 oz | 0.88 lbs
11.05 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.25 tsp | 1.08 tbsp
2.83 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
30 g | 1.06 oz | 0.07 lbs
1036.13 g | 36.55 oz | 2.28 lbs  | TF = N/A

From the additional information you provided, I calculated the amount of starter you used and it represents about 4.9% of the weight of the formula flour. I think the reason why you did not get much flavor in the finished crust is because the activity of the ADY (almost 0.50% of the formula flour) overtook and overwhelmed the activity of the starter to the point where the starter contributed little to the flavor of the finished crust. To get more crust flavor, you could 1) dispense with the ADY and use a long room temperature fermentation (you might need more starter depending on its strength and its state of readiness), or 2) dispense with the ADY and use a lot more starter culture, in a preferment quantity. It is also possible to use a preferment quantity of your starter culture, a room temperature fermentation, a cold fermentation, and a final room temperature rise. I am sure that there are other possibilities. By preferment quantity, I am thinking about 15-20% of the formula flour, although it can be higher or lower depending on your dough formulation and desired end results. 

As for your procedure in making the dough, it is usually recommended that the ADY be rehydrated in a small amount of water at around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes before adding it to either the rest of the formula water or to the rest of the ingredients in the mixer bowl. Adding the ADY dry (nonrehydrated) to the mixer bowl will inhibit the performance of the ADY. However, it can prolong the window of usability of the dough, possibly several days longer than the 2-3 days you used. The longer fermentation time might allow more byproducts of fermentation to be produced to contribute to crust color development, flavor and aroma. I have used ADY dry in special cases but I normally don't recommend it to others because of the high probability for failure if misapplied.

Your total formula hydration (around 67.5%) for the KABF is several percent higher than the rated absorption value for KABF (about 62%), but if you have not had any problems working with a dough at about 67.5% hydration, then I think you should be OK.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How can I make this better?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2008, 08:49:24 PM »
So right now, I just took my starter out of the fridge to re-fresh....it is:

60 grams starter
30 grams H20
30 grams KABF


B-R-D,

I just caught your edit after my last post. Are you saying that you used a total of 60 grams of your starter in your recipe instead of 30 grams?

Peter

Offline Chef_Boy-R-Dee

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Re: How can I make this better?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 09:08:17 PM »
Sorry for the confusion Peter...

I guess I was just trying to show you what the percentage of the starter was.

So when refreshing, I take it out of the fridge, take 30 grams of old starter, add 15 grams of H20, and 15 grams of KABF. I do this a few times, or until fairly active.

I did only add 30 grams of "active" starter to my recipe.

Thanks for checking for clarification, and for the post.

B-R-D
"Simplicity is Complexity Resolved"

-Constantin Brancusi


 

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