Author Topic: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -  (Read 55795 times)

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Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #300 on: October 21, 2015, 10:00:25 PM »
Hey Stonecutter!

Have any suggestions for filling the cracks? I was thinking, after removing all the loose material I would apply a modified mortar and apply a bonding agent, cover the oven with a fiber mesh and a fresh Finnish coat. I plan to rebuild the hood with fire brick to eliminate the steel.

I would like to fire the oven a few times to see how it hold up before replacing tile. Let me know what ya think!

Tom

Using mesh and a fiber reinforced mix sounds like a good idea to me. What's the melting point of the fiber mesh you're using? There isn't a whole lot you can do to stop cracking unless you strip the cladding off to the brick entirely.  But what you are planning to do sounds like a big improvement. 

Btw, chicken wire is a poor reinforcement for the cladding.  It's a bit like using a chain link fence in a concrete slab. Welded wire mesh or metal lath won't flex like chicken wire, which is just twisted together. I know you're not using it here but it's worth a mention.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 05:31:21 AM by stonecutter »
When we build, let us think that we build forever.
John Ruskin


Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #301 on: October 21, 2015, 10:03:17 PM »
Really great question Tom.  I'm not sure anyone reading knows the best answer to that question (a challenge to prove me wrong...)  All I know is that I don't know.

As Stonecutter pointed out cement-based products don't often get along well with steel in high temp environments.  One big issue is thermal expansion.  Steel has a different coefficient of expansion than does concrete.  But looking them up (engineering toolbox), those expansion factors is closer than I expected - still any difference gets multiplied with temperature increase (cold to hot).  I like your fiber/carbon fiber idea.  There are high temp adhesives (eg: space shuttle tiles - way beyond what you need) that may work.  I don't know that you want to eliminate cracks as much as you want to manage cracks, minimize gaps, allow for expansion/contraction.  It helps if you have an accommodating layer of insulation between the inner baking chamber (gets really hot) and the outer cosmetic shell (not so hot) because those are going to expand differently.  The heterogeneous outer shell of ceramic tile, mortar, and a cementitious product only works because it doesn't get too hot.  For the many rolling their eyes, please spend most of your energy helping Tom and only a slight nod to this uninformed member that appreciates his question. ;)

Dave

You're right on the money regarding the expansion/contraction/management line of thinking.
When we build, let us think that we build forever.
John Ruskin

Offline Neopolitan

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #302 on: October 21, 2015, 11:47:09 PM »
And i have seen some hard used Neapolitan ovens that showed cracks through tile joints. But not many
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 11:49:45 PM by Neopolitan »

Offline Reek

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #303 on: November 23, 2015, 06:59:46 PM »
 BOOK MARK Neapolitan WFO - How to build

Offline sub

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #304 on: November 28, 2015, 06:25:13 AM »
new video   ;)




Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #305 on: November 28, 2015, 01:17:40 PM »
Thank you, Sub! According to the Facebook page for Fornace Saputo:
https://www.facebook.com/Fornace-Saputo-618184551553967/?fref=nf
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 01:19:43 PM by Pizza Napoletana »
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #306 on: November 29, 2015, 08:18:06 PM »
And there's your thermal mass under the hearth.  Very enlightening video Sub, thanks!
When we build, let us think that we build forever.
John Ruskin

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #307 on: November 29, 2015, 11:51:22 PM »
Just because you do something for a hundred years doesn't mean it is right.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #308 on: November 30, 2015, 06:24:25 AM »
No argument there, but the video was still an eye opener.
When we build, let us think that we build forever.
John Ruskin


Offline sub

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #309 on: December 14, 2015, 04:58:00 AM »
Agliarulo Ernesto Forni - Pizzeria IDon Brugnera



Where have all the tuff stones gone  ???

Offline minn

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #310 on: January 25, 2016, 09:52:50 PM »
Hi, All heroes there, the constructions look gorgeous, simply one question, how do you control the smoke? I wanted to build one in my place ( Shanghai of China), it seems not permitted to do so unless I have a good control on the emission. what devise do you use to reduce the emission level?

the other question, 190C degree of smoke seems the heat was not retained sufficiently? any one of you ever think about utilizing masonry heater structure, which could save lot woods and the emission/pollution is referred to be controlled at minimum level? your thoughts please ... ...

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #311 on: January 25, 2016, 09:58:27 PM »
Hi, All heroes there, the constructions look gorgeous, simply one question, how do you control the smoke? I wanted to build one in my place ( Shanghai of China), it seems not permitted to do so unless I have a good control on the emission. what devise do you use to reduce the emission level?

the other question, 190C degree of smoke seems the heat was not retained sufficiently? any one of you ever think about utilizing masonry heater structure, which could save lot woods and the emission/pollution is referred to be controlled at minimum level? your thoughts please ... ...

There are several companies that manufacture devices that completely eliminate the need to vent WFOs to the environment. You can see one of them here: http://www.oly.it/acunto-ing/

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline minn

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Re: Authentic Neapolitan WFO - How to build -
« Reply #312 on: January 26, 2016, 08:18:08 AM »
Thank you, TXCraig1, as always. it is so nice to know such device. in the meantime, when I searched around this afternoon my time,I found some people uses air mover to control the emission very efficiently. I can understand this as the smoke are the emission which not sufficiently burnt, given enough of oxygen in the combustion, the smoke problem could be remove, all the emission from burnt wood will be only the hydration. I will try the air mover first as it is readily available in China market. if not successful, I will contact the non smoke device manufacturer. thank you again, TXCraig1, you are very helpful .