Author Topic: Mobile pizza oven.... (Read 53533 times)

tommygun · « **Reply #40 on:** December 18, 2008, 12:48:11 AM »

Thanks for the hint widespread- the firewall is completely moveable- i just use it to prevent ash and debris falling onto the cooking surface when I add wood- i leave a section of the flame unblocked so i can get the pies right up close to the coals. I'll give it a try without the firewall this weekend.

Re: Golden Embers- I didn't deal with them directly as I bought the trailer second hand so I can't vouch for them 100% but the quality of their product seems top notch

I think i'll get hold of some woodchips next time too and see how that goes

cheers!

Tom

Pete-zza · « **Reply #41 on:** December 31, 2008, 07:47:56 AM »

There is an interesting thread on mobile pizza trailers, with photos, at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?t=6415&sid=f5a420758ce9f5dce1b4ea940380d152.

Peter

JConk007 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 31, 2008, 10:12:13 AM »

Thankyou Peter for that link.
Very Very Interesting. I really like the mobile idea, as I have said. It seems as though it would be affordable to set one of these up somehow and still keep my job. Without the major investment of a shop - with the hopes someday I would not need the 9-5

John

slash picaso · « **Reply #43 on:** January 04, 2009, 06:26:20 PM »

great work tommygun,good to see you got it all happening,just one question on the trailer,how do you stop the oven from moving and breaking eg, do you have suspention under the oven?

tommygun · « **Reply #44 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:57:30 PM »

Thanks Slash- its a pretty good feeling to have the biz off the ground and ticking along nicely

We just had a long weekend of festival catering and have bookings every weekend for the next two months (its the middle of summer in New Zealand right now- prime pizza making weather)

Sold around 700 slices over the weekend and had some very good feedback. We are doing hand tossed 17" NYC style pies chopped into six and sold by the slice. NYC style pizza is virtually unseen in NZ and people have are amazed by the hand spinning spectacle and by the sheer size of the pies. Sold a couple of slices to a group of New Yorkers and they said it was just like they got back home which I was pretty proud about!

In case anyone is interested, the dough we are using is as follows:

100% Flour (11.8% protein with a little 75% gluten flour added to kick up protein to approx 14%- no one sells hi gluten flour in NZ)
64% Water
2% Salt
2% Vege oil
1% sugar
.2% IDY

.....24 hour cold fermentation

One of the biggest issues I am facing is keeping the dough in optimum condition while out at festivals and during transit. We have been hiring a refrigerated trailer but with all the opening and closing of the door, and with the time in transit when it's not plugged in, the temperature can be pretty erratic and we have had a few dough balls blow out on us. The cost of hiring the trailer is also starting to add up ($200 per weekend). Would love to be able to buy my own trailer but don't have the $10K spare! I guess that's the nature of mobile vending though

I will take some photos at the festivals this weekend so you can check out my setup

More than happy to answer questions about the whole mobile concept- i am relatively new to it but have learnt A LOT over the last few months

oh, and Slash- the trailer has custom suspension and a purpose built steel frame supporting the oven base- New Zealand roads are notoriously rough but the oven has stood up well to bumps and bounces

Cheers

Tom

Pete-zza · « **Reply #45 on:** January 21, 2009, 08:25:55 PM »

Tom,

I notice that you changed your dough formulation from the one you described at Reply 33 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7000.msg64837.html#msg64837. At the time, I wondered whether the sugar level might have been too high for the high oven temperatures you were using. I see now that you have lowered the sugar content. Was that the reason? I noticed also that you reduced the amount of IDY and added some oil to your recipe. Was the yeast reduction because it is summer where you are and the dough was fermenting too fast? And how has the oil addition worked out?

As usual, I look forward to the next batch of photos.

Peter

JConk007 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 21, 2009, 09:39:42 PM »

Tommy,
700 slices at 6 per pie thats like 117 pizzas and 1 for you
So how are you mixing all that dough? thats a pretty large batch don't ? How many Grams is each finished 17"dough ball?
Glad its going well for you. Keep pushin out the pies

John

tommygun · « **Reply #47 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:15:36 PM »

Haha nothing escapes you does it peter?! Yep you're right I decided to drop the sugar a little as I was having a bit of trouble with premature browning on the top of my pies which, in part, I put down to the sugar content. Also, I just don't think the extra sugar is necessary when using slow, cold fermentation.

Also cut the IDY back a little to help deal with the issues of dough temperature control and overfermentation that I mentioned. I figure if I use as little yeast as possible I will be giving myself a better chance of managing temperature fluctuations.

Decided to add the oil as I found that the gluten flour I was adding tended to toughen up the dough. I use a 20 min autolyse when mixing (flour + 90% of water with salt and sugar dissolved in it) and found that when I started the mixer again it was stressing and straining much more noticably than when I mix doughs without hte added gluten. I have never used hi gluten flour so don't know whether this is normal or was accentuated by adding the (near) pure gluten. Either way, adding the oil slowly over a couple of mins when I start kneading after the autolyse seems to help- and it gives the dough a more supple finish I find.

JConk- was a lot more than just the one for me and my workers- we were munching away most of the weekend! As for the mixing- I've struck it lucky and got myself access to a commercial kitchen that belongs to the restaurant I work part time for. We have two 30qt hobarts and another amazing toy- a dough baller! Takes a lot of the hard work out of dough making- just portion your dough (575g each for me) throw it into the machine and out pops a perfectly round and tight dough ball- SO easy, but very expensive. I did my mixing for the weekend last night- pumped out 80 dough balls in about 3 hours including setting up and tidying up afterwards

Will post photos after this weekend- we're catering at a big horse racing event- 25000 capacity. Should be fun and hopefully profitable

Tom

slash picaso · « **Reply #48 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:21:12 PM »

I am just about to purchase a mobile oven myself,i will start of using frozen bases(i know they are the not the best) but am looking for consistancy,with the best ingredients should work out good,trials to date have been positive, i am very interested in how you are going,and hope to share information in the future,happy festivals tommy

Pete-zza · « **Reply #49 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:02:20 PM »

Tom,

In the early days of pizza making in the U.S. where the pizza operators used very high temperature ovens (mostly coal-fired) and baked on a stone surface they could not use sugar in the dough for the very reason you discovered. That still applies today even for deck ovens, which overtook the coal fired ovens (and wood-fired ovens) in popularity.

As for the vital wheat gluten, one of the steps that is often recommended when using vital wheat gluten as part of a dough formulation is to add 1 1/2 to 2 times the weight of vital wheat gluten as additional water. In your case, if you did not do that, then the oil perhaps helped get the fluency of the dough you wanted.

What I do when I use vital wheat gluten is to replace part of the formula flour with an amount of vital wheat gluten that will produce a final blend with a desired protein level. I then adjust the hydration if needed. As an example, if you have a base flour with a protein content of say, 12.7%, which is typical of bread flour in the U.S., and want to increase that to 14.2%, which is typical of high-gluten flour in the U.S., you simply replace part of the base flour with an amount of vital wheat gluten that yields a total blend with a protein content of 14.2%. I do the calculations for this sort of exercise using member November's Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://tools.foodsim.com/. If you want to play around with that tool, you will want to know the protein content of your base flour, the weight of that base flour used in the dough formulation, the protein content of your vital wheat gluten (65-75% is typical), and the targeted final protein content. To convert the calculated weight of vital wheat gluten to a volume measurement, you will also need to know how much a particular volume of the vital wheat gluten weighs (e.g., 1/4 cup weighs 30 grams). All of this sounds quite complicated but it really is not. If you decide to use the tool and need help, let me know.

BTW, you have done a great job working with, and understanding, baker's percents. Do you do the calculations long hand or do you use a calculator of some sort?

Peter

tommygun · « **Reply #50 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:10:26 PM »

Peter- I've been using the Uncle Salmon tool to achieve a 14% protein in the finished flour- the VWG i use is 75%. In your experience is their much difference between using bread flour + VWG and using a milled hi protein flour?? I've discovered that its important to disperse the VWG through the flour well to avoid an inconsistent finished dough texture i.e. concentrated VWG spots

All my bakers percents are worked out using the Lehmann calculator- even though i'm only a few years out of high school, calculus class seems like a distant memory!

Heading off now to set up for tomorrow's festival- can't wait- weather is looking good

Slash- good luck to ya! its a lot of work but a lot of fun. one of my biggest lessons so far- the weather is a hugely important factor in your success. that, and take your set up cost projections and multiply them by 3 to get a more realistic figure!! sad but true. PM me with any questions

Tom

Pete-zza · « **Reply #51 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:19:56 PM »

Quote from: tommygun on January 22, 2009, 08:10:26 PM

In your experience is their much difference between using bread flour + VWG and using a milled hi protein flour?? Tom

Tom,

The two are not equivalent. In my opinion, it would be better to go with the high-gluten, high-protein flour if you can get it. However, as we have learned, high-gluten flour often isn't available in many, if not most, places outside of the U.S. I like using vital wheat gluten. I find that it gives more crust color, taste and chewiness than a crust without it. Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of taste and personal preference.

Peter

Matthew · « **Reply #52 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:51:43 AM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on January 22, 2009, 08:19:56 PM

Tom,

I like using vital wheat gluten. I find that it gives more crust color, taste and chewiness than a crust without it. Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of taste and personal preference.

Peter

Peter,
I mix in Gluten Flour (80%) in my high gluten dough recipes. I didn't realize that there was a difference between VWG & Gluten Flour. I have been using the VWG formula thus far, will the formula still hold true in this case?

Matt

Pete-zza · « **Reply #53 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:35:34 AM »

Tom,

I recalled some time ago that I spoke with a technical person at Bay State Milling, a miller in the U.S. that often mills flours for others, such as King Arthur and several of the major U.S. pizza chains, about the differences between a milled flour and one supplemented with vital wheat gluten. This morning, while looking for something else, I stumbled upon a post that I wrote shortly after that discussion, at Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,389.msg4505/topicseen.html#msg4505.

Peter

Pete-zza · « **Reply #54 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:49:26 AM »

Quote from: Matthew on January 23, 2009, 06:51:43 AM

I mix in Gluten Flour (80%) in my high gluten dough recipes. I didn't realize that there was a difference between VWG & Gluten Flour. I have been using the VWG formula thus far, will the formula still hold true in this case?

Matt,

Often, usually outside of the U.S., vital wheat gluten (VWG) is known as "gluten flour" or "wheat gluten flour". Another comparable term is "pure gluten flour". The three most common VWG products at the retail level in the U.S. are those from Bob's Red Mill, Arrowhead Mills, and Hodgson Mill. All three of these brands are in the pull-down menu of November's Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://tools.foodsim.com/. However, if one knows the percent protein (80% in your case), the tool can also be used with any brand of vital wheat gluten, as Tom apparently has done with the brand he is using in New Zealand. What brand are you using?

Peter

Matthew · « **Reply #55 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:23:49 AM »

Hi Peter,
I buy from a local baker supply called Grain Process Enterprises. I use their hard unbleached flour which is about 12.7% gluten & have been extremely happy with it. Based on what I've read, its properties seem to be similar to KABF. Lately I've been adding just enough gluten flour to bring it up to about 13% which seems to work best for me.

jjerrier2450 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:44:47 PM »

Here are a couple of pictures from our mobile oven in action...we were invited to the Dallas Morning News Wine Competition on Monday night - our restaurant was recognized as a Top Ten New Restaurant by the News...kind of shocking considering some of the more "serious" restaurants that were also in the mix - maybe a nod to this economy!

At any rate, after working with the health department to explain the oven

it all ran smoothly. The funny thing is that Dallas Fire Rescue didn't care at all that I was burning wood as fuel...just wanted to make sure I had a permit if I was using propane. Funny.

Anyway, we did 50 pizzas in about 90 minutes - the oven performed perfectly and I didn't screw up a single pizza. We made all Neapolitan margheritas with fior di latte, whole leaf basil, extra virgin, a touch of olive oil and sea salt. We were quite a spectacle out in front of the convention center. A lot of well known Dallas chefs came by to stare into the oven. Tons of fun.

jeff v · « **Reply #57 on:** February 18, 2009, 12:10:14 AM »

Quote from: jjerrier2450 on February 17, 2009, 11:44:47 PM

Here are a couple of pictures from our mobile oven in action...we were invited to the Dallas Morning News Wine Competition on Monday night - our restaurant was recognized as a Top Ten New Restaurant by the News...kind of shocking considering some of the more "serious" restaurants that were also in the mix - maybe a nod to this economy!

At any rate, after working with the health department to explain the oven it all ran smoothly. The funny thing is that Dallas Fire Rescue didn't care at all that I was burning wood as fuel...just wanted to make sure I had a permit if I was using propane. Funny.

Anyway, we did 50 pizzas in about 90 minutes - the oven performed perfectly and I didn't screw up a single pizza. We made all Neapolitan margheritas with fior di latte, whole leaf basil, extra virgin, a touch of olive oil and sea salt. We were quite a spectacle out in front of the convention center. A lot of well known Dallas chefs came by to stare into the oven. Tons of fun.

Bravo, and congrats! What great publicity for you-hopefully you'll get some bookings from it. Did the people enjoy your pizza? I only see 1 pic.

Jeff

JConk007 · « **Reply #58 on:** February 18, 2009, 10:21:22 AM »

Jeff,
I think he said 50 pizzas in 90 min.

I can tell you balancing 800 degree oven and whipping out pies, that does not leave much time for Picture taking. How many does a 2stone do in 90 min. Guess you could do that with some planning right? Could you do a mobile setup with 3 - 2stones side by side like conga drums, and go nuts at a function jjer, I am Curious how many people you have helping and what they do I mean what is your process? and don't one on them have a cell phone with a camera?
great work! congrats on your success. ( and not screwing one up too thats a feat for me.)
John

jjerrier2450 · « **Reply #59 on:** February 18, 2009, 10:35:35 AM »

I will upload some pics from iphone later - but unfortunately I didn't have a ton of time to take pics. A guy from the newspaper was there taking pics - if it makes it to the paper I will post a link.

I would make 2-3 pizzas at a time on the prep table, load them into the oven, cook for 2 mins then pop them on the trays. I had a couple of volunteer runners that would run them in to the function, by the time they came back I had the next batch ready. Stressful but fun. The other "top ten" restaurants also had tables inside the event providing samples of their food so we didn't have to feed 300 people ourselves.

I was worried about how people would react because it was definitely Neapolitan - crispy but soft, a little soupy with fior di latte. People kept coming up to me saying they were having seconds, thirds, and fourths...so a good sign!