Author Topic: Good ol' home oven  (Read 11172 times)

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2008, 12:49:10 PM »
RN,

I didn't time it but my guess is probably somewhere between 7 - 8 mins, with one under the broiler. My pizzas are by no means Neapolitan, but if you want something that comes close I'm starting to believe that a lower hydration is more adequate for a home oven.

Btw, the stone temp topped out at 535.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2008, 05:46:31 PM »
Here's the second pie from yesterday. It's a ham, 'shrooms and and salami pizza.

It's not as nicely browned as the first one but it was still good.

RN,

Compared to your James, with my oven it's more like driving Miss Daisy.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 05:48:17 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2008, 07:09:11 PM »
Mike,

Driving Miss Daisy!   :-D   That pizza sure looks good!

My oven's highest setting is 550, so now that I have an IR gun, I will be interested to see what the stone temp is after the hour preheat.  It's also a convection oven and I have not tried that feature yet... just the straight bake, so far.  It will be interesting to experiment this winter and see what I can get that Miss Daisy cranked up to!  I've never had a problem with James jumping into the driver's seat... at least not yet!

~mots aka sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2008, 07:40:00 PM »
Mots,

I used that analogy to illustrate the temperature difference between RN's oven and mine. Mine doesn't get much higher than 500 or so. Unless I'd screw around with the internal thermometer, but I don't think that will happen any time soon.  :)
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2008, 08:11:49 PM »
I used that analogy to illustrate the temperature difference between RN's oven and mine.

The thermostat on my oven was only set at around 550F when I baked the 90 and 120-second pizzas I posted on the other thread.  As I've tried to tell you before, my oven is just an unmodified 1970's era GE electric wall unit.  In fact, my oven broils at only 3000 W when most modern ovens broil at 3400 W.  I'm sure there isn't much difference between our ovens.  The baking stone maybe, but not the ovens.

- red.november

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2008, 08:16:42 PM »
RN,

Mine's an old wall-mounted whirlpool, from perhaps the 80's I would think. If there's not much temp difference then wonder why your pizza baked in such a short time and got burned? Is it the formula you used or your stone?

I bake the pies on an AM cordierite stone.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2008, 08:25:20 PM »
Mots,

I used that analogy to illustrate the temperature difference between RN's oven and mine. Mine doesn't get much higher than 500 or so. Unless I'd screw around with the internal thermometer, but I don't think that will happen any time soon.  :)


Yeah, and I thought it was a great analogy... well done!

My oven's a GE Profile... got it about a year ago when I had to replace the 40 year old GE Hi-Lo that caught fire one night while I was cooking dinner... I KNOW James was driving THAT night... it looked like we were already in Hell!

I'm still amazed and awed that red.november can bake a 90 second... or even 2 minute pizza in a kitchen oven!  I have something to strive for... and WITHOUT getting the tin snips involved!  But, supposedly, with the convection feature, you can "trick" the oven's thermostat into going 25-30 degrees higher... might have to look into that concept!

~mots aka sd
Never trust a skinny cook!

Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2008, 08:50:57 PM »
If there's not much temp difference then wonder why your pizza baked in such a short time and got burned? Is it the formula you used or your stone?

:-D I've been playing coy since I first posted the fast times, just waiting for someone to actually ask how I did it.  It seems in this world of modified ovens, a modified oven is the first conclusion people jump to.  I've mentioned a couple times at least that the concept of temperature is a commonly misunderstood one.  What ultimately bakes your pizza is thermal energy.  The temperature of your oven or stone only tells you how much energy these things have, not how much energy they can transfer to the pizza in x time.  This is why I'm constantly comparing baking stones in terms of their thermal properties like heat capacity and thermal conductivity, because that is what ultimately matters.  A pizza only needs to reach around 310F to facilitate Maillard reactions, and most ovens handle that just fine.

I planned on starting a new thread on this once the cat was out of the bag, but really, the cat has already been wandering around since December 2006.  The cat has simply gone unnoticed for all this time.  Here are the first and last times I posted on the subject of silicon carbide, the ceramic baking surface I'm currently using:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4215.msg35417.html#msg35417
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5645.msg48315.html#msg48315

And for further illumination, James' full name is James Prescott Joule.  Now maybe you'll get all the references.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Prescott_Joule

- red.november

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2008, 09:03:25 PM »
:-D I've been playing coy since I first posted the fast times, just waiting for someone to actually ask how I did it. 

red.november,
You sly devil, you!  I didn't know you had it in you... I don't think of engineers as "coy".

And for further illumination, James' full name is James Prescott Joule.  Now maybe you'll get all the references.

Ah, yes, all the facts... and of course, my first thought was "Home, James, and don't spare the horses!" which would make perfect sense for your chauffeur's name!  All very clever, Mr. November!   8)

Now, I gotta go read about that cat that's been wandering around....

~sd
Never trust a skinny cook!


Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2008, 09:25:50 PM »
RN,

Now that explains quite a lot. Interesting stuff.

I have to admit that the only time I've heard about silicon carbide was in connection with high-performance brake discs used in cars during Formula One races.

In other words, it was the difference in our baking stones all along. I'll be damned but thanks for sharing the info!

And in terms of James Prescott Joule, back in Germany...I think in the 80's, they started to add kJoule to the nutrition label, right next to the Calories column, perhaps to show the energy.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 09:28:28 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2008, 10:06:20 PM »
I have to admit that the only time I've heard about silicon carbide was in connection with high-performance brake discs used in cars during Formula One races.

Aside from being a great abrasive, silicon carbide is used as brake material because they can dissipate (conduct) the heat much more quickly than other abrasives.

Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2008, 10:08:41 PM »
they started to add kJoule to the nutrition label, right next to the Calories column, perhaps to show the energy.

A Calorie is a unit of energy.  A (nutritional) Calorie is the same as a kilocalorie which is the same as 4186.8 joules.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2008, 10:12:37 PM »
Then why are kJoule listed? What does that show to the consumer?
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2008, 10:23:22 PM »
Then why are kJoule listed? What does that show to the consumer?

A joule (J) is an SI unit of energy; an internationally accepted standard.  They're just trying to phase out the old Calorie like they phased out Imperial measure to be replaced with the metric system (or SI system depending on the scope of the standard).

- red.november

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2008, 10:36:24 PM »
RN,

Even though I was good, not great!, in chemistry and physics class back in High School, it's been such a long time that I don't see what the benefits could possibly be to phase out the Calorie?

I wonder, given your obviously extensive back ground in both fields, which system is easier to work with? The Imperial or Metric?

I'm asking out of sheer curiosity because I grew up on the Metric and had to basically start from the ground up with the Imperial, which is still confusing to me. I still can't picture how big a 5/8" hole is, or a shaftlength of 8/16" on a quartz clock movement. But if you'd say i.e. the hole's gonna be 1.6 cm, I'd know.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2008, 11:04:22 PM »
I wonder, given your obviously extensive back ground in both fields, which system is easier to work with? The Imperial or Metric?

The hands down winner in science is SI (or metric if you're old school).  Modern science would not have advanced as much as it has without the SI system.  In a situation where a physicist has to unify several theories, or apply thermodynamics or electrodynamics to mechanics, it's a bloody nightmare to accomplish those tasks in anything but SI units.  Almost all modern physical equations are most elegantly expressed in SI units.  To even attempt conversion before calculation would mean certain aneurism.

In engineering, it's a mixed bag.  It's not as clear a winner in engineering, but I think SI is still easier in any case.  Many will still argue that the number of factors for 12 make it an ideal base for a unit of measure.  I'll agree that having 2, 3, 4, and 6 as possible whole divisors is convenient, but so is moving the decimal place in base 10.

- red.november

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2008, 11:40:38 PM »
RN,

Thanks for the insight. I'm biased, obviously, so I can't really say that the SI/Metric system is the better choice until I have fully understood the Imperial system, which will probably take a little more time.

But it was very interesting to read your input. 
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2008, 11:59:24 PM »
until I have fully understood the Imperial system, which will probably take a little more time.

At this stage, I wouldn't bother to spend more time on it.  Save those neurons for learning something else.  My childhood education might have kept be biased in favor of customary units (U.S. version of Imperial), but my involvement in science flipped everything around.  I used to participate in discussions with numerous science professionals concerning the merits of each system, the minutia of which would make your head spin, but the bottom line is that all but a couple of countries standardize on the SI system.  If you want to ensure accuracy across continents, or even across agencies, you better use the system everyone else is using.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2008, 12:33:43 AM »
RN,

I remember Great Britain switching over to the Metric system and my fiance at that time was English and it was a big deal. Today it doesn't seem to be any longer.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline pcampbell

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2008, 02:38:30 PM »
Essen I have been messing around with some different things with the broiler also.

Today I put the stone up high, 1 slot below the top slot (top slot would probably have me burning my hand) pre-heated stone using regular bake burner, then once I put the pizza in, I turned on the broiler element.  It worked really quite well.  When the top got just about perfect I turned the broiler off and then waited for the bottom to be done, another minute.  Maybe 5 minutes total.  I think another idea would be putting the stone very low, pre-heating, cooking it there for maybe 3 minutes, then moving the entire pizza onto a wire rack with the broiler on.

Are you putting the pie on the wire rack up near the broiler or just holding it up there with the peel or???
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 02:42:28 PM by pcampbell »
Patrick

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2008, 02:54:59 PM »
PC,

The way I did it was I pre-heated the stone at 500 for about an hour on the lowest rack, maybe 3" above the heating element.  The stone usually tops out around 535 - 540. I bake the pizza in that setting for about 5 or 6 mins and then move the entire rack, incl. stone and pie, directly under the broiler and keep a watchful eye on it as to not burn the crust and toppings. A little charring is okay but it shouldn't be burned.

On a side note, I use cubed low-moisture whole-milk mozzarella but only a small amount during the first stage of baking and right before moving it under the broiler I throw on a few more cubes. And that's pretty much it.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2008, 03:06:18 PM »
Patrick,

A similar method to the one you used is described by member pwaldman (Pete) at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6585.msg56478/topicseen.html#msg56478.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2008, 09:39:56 PM »
Patrick,

A similar method to the one you used is described by member pwaldman (Pete) at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6585.msg56478/topicseen.html#msg56478.

Peter

Peter & Patrick,

That's very similar to how I use the home oven in terms of pre-heating the stone. It does yield good results. Now, if we'd had a silicon carbide stone like RN does, we'd be set.  ;D

It would be a nice alternative for me if I don't feel like firing up the LBE.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline November

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2008, 09:52:25 PM »
It would be a nice alternative for me if I don't feel like firing up the LBE.

Mike,

If you ever need an alternative to the LBE ...

Offline Essen1

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Re: Good ol' home oven
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2008, 03:12:06 PM »
Jesus Christ!

Looks pretty cool but I don't have the space for it. Unfortunately.

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


 

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