Author Topic: Do your dough skins have a "side"?  (Read 7153 times)

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Offline pizzaJoe

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Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« on: August 19, 2008, 10:53:26 AM »
Hi,

I was wondering if anyone else considers the side of the dough as top and/or bottom from start to finish or do you just randomly flip the dough out on to your work surface, stretch, top and cook?  Let me explain a little....

I make enough dough for four pizzas in one shot.  This seems to be an amount that works well with my kitchen aide mixer.  I take the dough out of the mixer bowl, quarter it and form my dough balls/skins/pucks (whatever you want to call them).  I then put them in dough retarding tins and let them sit uncovered for two hours or so at room temperature.  I then cover and refrigerate them (to eventually be used in less than 2 days).

From the time the dough skin is put into the tin, I consider the side of the dough facing up as the eventual "bottom" of the crust I will form.  I seem to have found that since that "side" is a bit more dried out, this makes for a crispier bottom to my pizza and lighter top.

Any science behind this or just an empirical mirage?   ;)

Just wondering what others think...

Joe
PizzaJoe


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 11:51:54 AM »
Joe,

What you are suggesting about using the dry side as the bottom to get a crispier crust is apparently quite common, as noted, for example, at Reply 36 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4104.msg44328.html#msg44328.

Peter

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 06:57:43 PM »
Here is what I have found,  using top as bottom = crisper crust,  less spring,  and vice versa.  It depends a lot on storage method though.  These results are with a pinhole vented glad container.  I have just begun some experiments with a wooden wine box and damp towels for my final room temp fermentation but have not drawn a conclusion yet though.  -marc

Offline JimmyMak

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 07:38:10 PM »
anyone have or tried wood proofing boxes. I'm thinking of making some out of poplar. Is it worth my time.

Offline scott r

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 08:47:02 PM »
yes!

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 09:06:16 PM »
This really seems like a good solution to me,  local wine shop,  free,  carefully cut in 1/2(heightwise) on my tables saw(do not cut through nails).  Dimensions are 20x13x3 fits in my side by side fridge if I need it to,  but haven't yet.  I will probably fashion some sort of wood top for them at some point,  but a mildly damp kitchen towel seems to do the trick.  There is an old school (1948)NY style shop in  town that still uses some real old wooden dough trays,  so I finally had to try.  they do seem to give a real nice crisp to my neapolitan pies,  but I have not done enough testing to say for sure.  -marc
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 09:10:51 PM by widespreadpizza »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 09:21:20 PM »
Widespreadpizza,

That's a great idea! I have a wine shop right up the street from my work and I'll pick a couple of boxes up.

From your pics it looks like they don't "sweat" much?
Mike

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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 09:49:01 PM »
Essen,  no they don't,  and it was quite humid this particular day.  Dough was ishica/caputo/60/2.5/bulk24/ind6.  Dough was like a pillow before I streched them out.  Also,  it just came right off the wood unstuck and unharmed.  I will be doing this again this weeked.  -marc

Offline pizzaJoe

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 09:20:24 AM »
Wow...  Pizza humidors!   ;D

I will have to try this someday when I have the time, for now I'm using the following:

PizzaJoe

Offline JimmyMak

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2008, 06:38:45 PM »
looks good I'm going to try boxes. I think that might be one secret good pizza places don't mention.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 06:52:24 PM »
looks good I'm going to try boxes. I think that might be one secret good pizza places don't mention.


JimmyMak,

There may be a lot of truth to that statement. I reported some time ago on the potential merits of using a wood dough box, at Reply 516 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg31992.html#msg31992.

Peter

Offline JimmyMak

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 07:59:23 PM »
thank-you I read that , more good info. the dough balls in the box looked perfect. you seem to have all the bases covered

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2008, 08:42:33 PM »
On December 10, 2004, in the third post (and first thread) that pftaylor entered on the forum, he mentioned using a wooden bowl to hold the pizza dough made in accordance with his great grandmother's recipe, specifically, at Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,690.msg6236.html#msg6236. I remembered that post well because, at the time, I tried to find a single, plain unfinished wooden bowl to experiment with. I did a lot of online searching and found many finished bowls, of which many were beautiful works of art made of exotic woods, but almost none that were just plain unfinished wood. Also, some bowls only came in sets.

It looks like Great Grandmother Quagliariello knew what she was doing when she specified a wooden bowl. 

Peter
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 08:53:11 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2008, 11:47:05 PM »
I remembered that post well because, at the time, I tried to find a single, plain unfinished wooden bowl to experiment with. I did a lot of online searching and found many finished bowls, of which many were beautiful works of art made of exotic woods, but almost none that were just plain unfinished wood. Also, some bowls only came in sets.

It looks like Great Grandmother Quagliariello knew what she was doing when she specified a wooden bowl. 

Peter
Who would have thought to save that old wooden bowl. We had one when I was a child. It must have been 50 years old by then. I would be handed a curved bladed instrument (looked almost like a dough cutter) and given the task of chopping, eggs, liver, onions, etc. in that ancient bowl. Washed and reused again and again (very sanitary- Huh?)

PNW
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 02:16:59 AM by Pizza_Not_War »

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2008, 12:09:22 AM »
On December 10, 2004, in the third post (and first thread) that pftaylor entered on the forum, he mentioned using a wooden bowl to hold the pizza dough made in accordance with his great grandmother's recipe, specifically, at Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,690.msg6236.html#msg6236. I remembered that post well because, at the time, I tried to find a single, plain unfinished wooden bowl to experiment with. I did a lot of online searching and found many finished bowls, of which many were beautiful works of art made of exotic woods, but almost none that were just plain unfinished wood. Also, some bowls only came in sets.

It looks like Great Grandmother Quagliariello knew what she was doing when she specified a wooden bowl. 

Peter


It also looks like she knew what to do to best adapt a neapolitan type recipie to a modern home oven.  Back then I would guess that the flour was not pre malted hence the vanillia malt,  and she used oil to help keep the crumb soft duing the longer bake.  It makes a lot of sense I think,  I bet her oven didn't have a clean cycle! -marc
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 12:15:41 AM by widespreadpizza »

Offline JimmyMak

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2008, 06:11:35 PM »
Am I understanding that the bulk rise would benefit in a wood bowl as well.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2008, 07:25:49 PM »
Am I understanding that the bulk rise would benefit in a wood bowl as well.

JimmyMak,

I don't know how big a dough batch size you have in mind but if you can find a wooden bowl to hold that amount of dough its price is bound to be higher than you might be willing to pay. I originally wanted a wooden bowl for only a single dough ball, for example, enough to make a pizza with a maximum size of 18". When I updated my search for such a bowl yesterday, the prices are still too high, in most cases more than a wooded dough tray from Marsal.

Peter

Offline JimmyMak

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 08:11:31 PM »
I'm looking to make 1600 gram batches. I might try to make some poplar boxes to see how it goes. I'm usually making 20 to 28 pizzas at a time. I like this warm overnight rise thing makes it difficult if your working & coming home to make pizzas without refrigeration. But like I said my best dough to date was warm overnight rise. Same day would mean 2am dough making.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2008, 10:32:48 PM »
One of my clients owns a wine shop and when I asked him today to reserve a couple of wine boxes for me, he mentioned that they are really hard to come by these days. Most wines nowadays are shipped in cardboard boxes.

So I ordered them here for $29 incl, shipping. They also come with a slide-on cover:

http://www.bmgwholesale.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_8&products_id=38

It seems they are a good alternative for the hard-to-find wooden pizza boxes.



Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Do your dough skins have a "side"?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2008, 10:09:17 PM »
Okay, I got my two wine boxes in and am trying one as a proofing box for the first time tonight.

Since it came with a sliding top cover, I shall see how that works out, compared to using a damp tea towel.

Mike

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