Author Topic: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough  (Read 54078 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #125 on: February 03, 2010, 11:59:56 AM »
And a couple more pics...

Peter


Offline hotsawce

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #126 on: February 14, 2010, 01:23:45 PM »
With a Room-Temp fermented dough, is it necessary to punch the dough down at any time?

I know at one point, Pete punched down his dough but it sounds like some here do not.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #127 on: February 14, 2010, 01:40:10 PM »
With a Room-Temp fermented dough, is it necessary to punch the dough down at any time?

I know at one point, Pete punched down his dough but it sounds like some here do not.

hotsawce,

It depends on the dough. If the gluten structure has been degraded by the long room-temperature fermentation, and especially if it looks and feels on the damp side, it is usually a good idea to do a few stretch and folds to strengthen the dough again and let it rest again before using. I found that I needed to do this sort of thing for a dough that was fermented in the summertime much more so than in the wintertime. Some dough recipes, like the Spangler dough recipe I used (my clone version), calls for multiple stretch and folds. So, I used them. The last dough I described, without any added commercial yeast or starter/preferment, did not need any punchdown or anything like that because it did not exhibit any of the indications of overproofing. I personally preferred the summertime version of that dough over the wintertime version because of the increased fermentation of the summertime version. I would rather contend with an overproofing situation that an underproofing situation.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #128 on: March 04, 2010, 08:49:36 PM »
While it is still cool where I am in Texas, I decided yesterday to make a “winter” version of the original “summer” dough formulation that I described in the opening post in this thread. However, rather than just increase the amount of yeast to compensate for the lower room temperature, I decided to also increase the hydration and the salt to the levels that I generally use for the Lehmann NY style dough formulation. I also added some oil, which is also typical of the Lehmann dough formulation but which I had not used in the original dough formulation. The flour I used was the King Arthur bread flour. In effect, the latest dough was a Lehmann NY style dough adapted for a room temperature fermentation of over 24 hours.

The final dough formulation I ended up with, for a 14” pizza, is the following one, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html:

King Arthur Bread Flour (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (0.024%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (164.774%):
255.39 g  |  9.01 oz | 0.56 lbs
158.34 g  |  5.59 oz | 0.35 lbs
0.06 g | 0 oz | 0 lbs | 0.02 tsp | 0.01 tbsp (Note: 0.06 grams of IDY is equal to about 1 ¼ of a 1/64 t. measuring spoon)
4.47 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.8 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
2.55 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.57 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
420.81 g | 14.84 oz | 0.93 lbs | TF = 0.096425
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.095; dough is for a single 14” pizza; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

To prepare the dough, I started by combining the IDY and the flour in a bowl. As noted above, the amount of IDY, 0.06 grams, is equal to about 1 ¼ of a 1/64 teaspoon measuring spoon. Such a measuring spoon is often called a “drop” measuring spoon. An example of the “drop” measuring spoon is shown in the photo at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5583.msg47264.html#msg47264. Next, I added the water, which was at a temperature of about 59 degrees F, to the mixer bowl of my standard KitchenAid stand mixer. I then added the salt to the water in the mixer bowl and stirred to dissolve, about 30 seconds. The oil was then stirred in with the water/salt mixture. Using the flat beater attachment, and with the mixer at stir speed, I gradually added the flour/IDY mixture to the mixer bowl, a few tablespoons at a time, about two minutes. There was still some loose flour at the bottom of the bowl that was not taken up by the dough mass, so I stopped the mixer and incorporated the loose flour into the dough by hand, about 30-45 seconds. I then switched to the C-hook, and with the mixer at speed 2, I kneaded the dough for about 5 ½ minutes. The finished dough, which was formed into a round ball, was smooth and cohesive and a bit tacky. 

The finished dough weight was 420 grams, which I trimmed to 415 grams, and the finished dough temperature was 67.8 degrees F. The dough was brushed with a bit of olive oil and placed into a one-quart glass Pyrex bowl. I placed two poppy seeds at the center of the top of the dough ball, spaced one inch apart (as discussed at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html), and placed the container, with a fitted lid, on my countertop. My room temperature at that time was about 66 degrees F.

The dough fermented at a room temperature range of about 65-68 degrees F for about a day. After 24 hours, the spacing of the poppy seeds suggested that the dough had almost exactly doubled in volume, which was the target I was hoping I would achieve. At that point, there were a lot of fermentation bubbles visible at the bottom of the glass Pyrex container, which was a good fermentation clue, but only a few at the sides. Although I could have easily used the dough at that point, I decided as a scheduling matter to let it ferment for about four hours more. By that time, the dough had risen some more and there were more fermentation bubbles at both the bottom and sides of the Pyrex container. At no time did I punch down or reshape the dough in any manner.

After a total of 28 hours of fermentation, I decided that the time was right to use the dough. So, I proceeded to shape and form it into a 14” skin. The dough was quite extensible but it was not wet or sticky. However, because I intended to use a lot more toppings than usual, and although I believe that I could have dressed the skin on my peel without the dough sticking, I decided out of excess of caution after forming the skin to place it on a sheet of parchment paper on my peel. That way, I would take the issue of sticking out of the equation entirely and be able to take my time and dress the skin at leisure. (As it turned out, the finished baked pizza weighed about 2 1/3 pounds).

Rather than making my standard pepperoni test pizza, I decided this time to make a Kraft’s Macaroni & Cheese buffalo chicken/bacon pizza. The Kraft’s mac and cheese was the standard boxed product as sold in just about every supermarket in America. I cooked up the pasta to the al dente stage and, after finishing the dish, I placed it in the refrigerator to help stop the cooking process.

The sequence of dressing the pizza was as follows. I started by brushing some Frank’s Red Hot (Original) sauce over the entire skin inside of the rim, so that there would be a taste of that sauce with almost every bite. I then distributed about 2/3 of a cheese blend over the pizza that I had prepared using low-moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese (about 6 ounces) and a medium cheddar cheese (about 2 ounces) that I had comminuted to a coarse dice form using my Cuisinart food processor. Next, I distributed a fairly thick layer of the Kraft’s mac and cheese over the pizza, followed by pieces of chicken that were prepared by grilling and basting a large chicken breast in the Frank’s sauce and then cutting the chicken breast into about ½” pieces. I added more of the Frank’s sauce to the cut chicken pieces so that each piece was coated with the sauce. To complete the pizza, I distributed pieces of bacon over the pizza that had been cooked about 75% (about four pieces of bacon), and distributed the remaining mozzarella/cheddar cheese blend over the pizza. After I was done dressing the pizza, I trimmed the parchment paper so that it conformed more to the shape and size of the pizza.

The pizza was baked on a pizza stone that I had placed on the lowest oven rack position and preheated for about an hour at around 550 degrees F. The pizza baked on the stone for about seven minutes, whereupon I moved the pizza to the topmost oven rack position for about another minute to get increased top crust browning. As I moved the pizza to the top rack position, I removed the parchment paper from the oven.

The photos below show the finished pizza. I thought the pizza was very good, with a nice combination of tastes and textures. I particularly liked the finished crust. It had nice color both top and bottom, excellent flavor, and a rim that was chewy but with a crispy exterior and a soft interior that texturally reminded me of crusts that I have achieved before using natural starters. Overall, the crust had an artisan look and feel to it. What impressed me most, however, was how easy it was to make the dough and to achieve a finished crust color, flavor and texture that normally take a lot longer if cold fermentation is used. I also believe that I now have a better feel and understanding about how to make the necessary adjustments to accommodate the particular room temperature where the dough is to ferment.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 07:26:02 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #129 on: March 04, 2010, 08:55:48 PM »
And some more photos....

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #130 on: March 05, 2010, 10:17:05 AM »
Peter,

Your long room-temperature fermented dough experiment was interesting. Deciding to increase your yeast, salt and hydration levels to achieve the room-temperature Lehmann dough is something I might try sometime at home.  I would like to see how the taste of a long room-temperature fermented dough compares with a cold ferment.
   
Your pie did also looked tasty and artisan looking. 

Did you find this pie with Kraft Macaroni and cheese to be better taste wise for the toppings than the Buffalo Chicken/Bacon Pizza you made before?

Thanks for describing your whole process,

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #131 on: March 05, 2010, 10:46:22 AM »
Norma,

As I mentioned recently at Reply 76 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10213.msg91114.html#msg91114, the idea for the Kraft's Macaroni & Cheese buffalo chicken pizza came to me from a PMQTT post. Since I had an unused chicken breast to use and also some leftover partially-cooked bacon from another pizza making effort recently, I decided to use both of these items for the Kraft's Macaroni & Cheese buffalo chicken pizza. Using a one-day dough also allowed me to use the chicken breast before it started to go bad. That is actually the reason why I decided to go with a one-day dough. I also wanted to get the experiment under my belt before spring arrives in Texas.

As between the latest pizza and the usual buffalo chicken pizzas that I have made, I would say that I prefer the usual buffalo chicken pizzas. The main reason is that I like the blue cheese and its potent flavor. I did not think that the blue cheese would complement the cheddar flavors and it was for that reason I did not use any blue cheese. Also, I perhaps used too much of the macaroni and cheese on the latest pizza. I think I used about sixty percent of the total amount of mac and cheese I made. Overall, however, I thought that the combination of cheeses and toppings was a harmonious one. I also wanted a respite from the usual pepperoni pizzas that I use for test purposes when trying out new dough formulations where I want to keep variables down to a minimum.

Peter

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #132 on: March 07, 2010, 01:16:11 PM »
Hey Peter,
I'm making your latest 24hr dough today, or rather started last nite, using 600 gr of flour for a small plain cheese pie for the "picky little granddaughter" Ava Rose :P and a large 18 incher for the grownups. Now here's the deal, when I called and asked what she wanted on her pizza she asked "is it grampa's, NO" then I asked her if she wanted Pizza Hut and she screamed "YES! Cheese Please!!" Why I oughta.....well the trick is this, grampa kind of a smart ass so he saved the last Pizza Hut box anticipating this very opportunity! So when it's time to eat the neighbor kid will be handed my pizza in a Pizza Hut box at the back door to be delivered to the 5 year old smarty pants at the front door. I'll post pics later and .....the rest of the story.
Back to the dough, I've re-formed it once this morning at 9 am, probably will again in a few minutes, then under the halogen lights under the overhead stove hood. Found it's a great place to rise dough, about 85+ degrees depending if I have the lights on high or low. Burned my finger good an them dang things first time I used it after it was installed :'(
By the way, I'll be using homemade Canadian Bacon I made a few days ago on the pie.
Jon
Kyrol HG (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (0.024%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (164.774%)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 01:43:16 PM by Jackitup »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #133 on: March 07, 2010, 01:28:01 PM »
Jon,

It sounds like you are going to have a hilarious account for us  :-D.

At 74% hydration, I assume that you will be using your oiled aluminum foil method to load the unbaked pizza onto your pizza stone, as you have done in the past with your cracker-style pizzas. At such a high hydration level, and assuming all else being equal, your dough is likely to ferment faster than my dough did and it may take somewhat longer to bake the pizza.

Peter


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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #134 on: March 07, 2010, 01:48:49 PM »
Must be the computer gremlins, I copied and pasted your last 24 hr formulation and it came up different ???
Anyway I modified it to the correct formula. I used maybe twice the yeast due to it being over a year old, maybe 2, but being kept in the fridge in a sealed mason jar must hold it pretty good, still got plenty of oomph to it. But I'll be starting on a screen then sliding onto the stone to finish. That method has been working great for me and is much easier getting the pie from counter to peel to oven. So the bit extra yeast I'm sure is the culprit on the extra activity.
Jon
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Offline pcampbell

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #135 on: March 07, 2010, 05:58:47 PM »
i have been trying this but seem to keep being a bit off

for example 63% water , 2.45% salt and 0.07% yeast was overfermented in 22 hours , tried 59% water, 2.6% salt and 0.066% yeast and after 23 hours around 61-64F it is not even close to being ready to bake. perhaps 59-60% water (63% was way too high either way, and I think probably increased fermentation a bit), less salt and the same yeast amount should be the next try?

i am using roughly 0.07% not only because i think its about the right amount but it works out to 1/8t for 3 270g doughballs which is the smallest measuring device i have.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 06:02:04 PM by pcampbell »
Patrick

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #136 on: March 07, 2010, 06:48:33 PM »
Patrick,

Long, room-temperature fermented doughs are a good news, bad news story. The good news is that the doughs are easy to make. The bad news is that temperature is the big elephant in the room.

If I were to devise a method that is the optimum one, it would be one that tells me how much yeast to use should I decide to change the parameters, specifically, the time period I want to ferment the dough and the room temperature at which the dough is to ferment. However, for such a method to work, there would have to be a reference dough that has achieved a particular condition, such as a doubling in volume of the dough over a particular period of time (although it could be some other expansion value). In the last dough formulation I posted, I used 0.024% IDY and got a doubling of the dough after almost exactly 24 hours. If I wanted to repeat the exercise but at a different room temperature, either higher or lower, or for a different fermentation time period, I would have to either inecrease or decrease the amount of IDY. To do this, I would use a method that already exists, courtesy of member November who described the way to make the necessary adjustments at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5028.msg42572.html#msg42572.

In my case, the Reference Rate would be the doubling of the dough in 24 hours at a room temperature of around 65 degrees F. The Predicted Rate would be the new time period and the new fermentation temperature. If you made long, room-temperature fermented doughs every day, you would develop a sixth sense and learn how to make the adjustments without having to do mathematical calculations as described above. This is essentially what the Neapolitan pizzaiolos learn to do, usually after years of experience, but with shorter fermentation time periods (unless you are Marco and using natural starters). In my case, I pretty much narrowed my choices to a summertime version and a wintertime version. Knowing those outer limits would most likely allow me to make adjustments for other times of year, either using my sixth sense or November's calculations.

Peter

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #137 on: March 08, 2010, 12:14:11 PM »
Hey Peter,
Pie was excellent. Did it up with the homemade can. bacon, caramelized onions, mush, gr olives and a bit of pineapple. The sauce had some oil cured black olives chopped up in it which added a surprising flavor profile to it. And the "Pizza Hut" pizza for the little spoiled one worked like a charm. She wouldn't touch anything that I made but when the doorbell rang with my pizza in a 'Pizza Hut box' she hit it like a hungry fish maintaining that their pizza was the best ever :-D :-D :-D Everyone laughed and my middle daughter lost ten bucks to me, she thought Ava would be wise to it :P Anyway the grown up pie was great also. Have some pics of that one.
Jon
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #138 on: March 08, 2010, 12:45:14 PM »
Jon,

That is really funny. I laughed for a few minutes over that one. At least she didn't say: "Grampa, are you trying to pull a fast one over on me? From the finished crust characteristics and the look and feel of that pizza, I can tell you used Pete-zza's long, room-temperature fermented dough with a minuscule amount of IDY to ensure that the dough lasts for about 24 hours."

Peter

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #139 on: March 08, 2010, 12:55:02 PM »
Also the latest cheese blend I've been using is a 33/33/33 of Stella mozz, swiss and Del Caribe fresh queso cheese. The queso is very similar to fresh cheese curds pressed into a 5 lb block (best description). It even has a squeak when you bite/chew into a chunk, very addicting with a nice salty/brininess to it. Makes a very good cheese blend I've been liking a lot.
Jon 
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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #140 on: October 18, 2010, 05:13:11 PM »
Jim,

There was actually a series of posts on this subject, starting at Reply 39 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.msg77237.html#msg77237. I'm sure that there are people who will be discouraged from trying the basic recipe because of a lack of a means to measure out minuscule amounts of yeast. Or else, the math to do it will scare them off.

Yes, well picking up where we left off here I decided to FINALLY make this last night. Ok so it took me awhile. Cool temps aided the process, and on the yeast issue... well I just used about a 10th of a teaspoon and hoped for the best. Be that 10x too much or spot on the results were fabulous! The rest was exactly as in post 1 in this thread, and I thought other newcomers should be refreshed on this concept.

What a dry dough, when you first knead this 55% mass it's like modeling clay. I cant see a mixer being happy with it so I'm glad I hand kneaded from the start. Once it sat balled, oiled, and contained on counter for 18 hrs it was a different story. It had doubled indeed at 60-65 degrees, and the second knead was like butter. I saw Peter's point about doing this to  regain elasticity, it needed this. After another 4hrs it bounced right back to same appearance as 4 hours prior. I took the first profile shot below after 2nd rise.

When I took it out it reminded me of a Jerry Mac pie in the stretch. Loads of bubbles, airy, thick, elastic but stretched with coaxing to 15". (went 1 inch bigger than 14" in post) Some thin and thick areas made for an adventurous pizza. Something new with every slice! True though. Some really nice thin crunchy cracker-esque slices, some thicker chewier slices. Both wonderful. The flavor was amazing for a 1 day, or for a 5 day. The rim was light inside yet crackly outside and it all had a unique flavor I never tasted, but that I just love. A hint of sourness, I dunno, it was definitely different and delicious though.

I recommend this to all 1-3 day Lehmann makers... Save the fridge space/get better results!
This is a definite add in my arsenal of pizza making weaponry.

Cheers


« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 05:17:37 PM by NY pizzastriver »
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Offline Essen1

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #141 on: October 18, 2010, 05:21:26 PM »
Jimbo,

That's a fine looking pie! It has a distinct artisan look to it.

Seems like you haven't lost your touch, Bro  ;D
Mike

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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #142 on: October 18, 2010, 05:27:06 PM »
Thanks Mike. Yeah man, what a nice pizza. On the first bite I said 'wow' right away when the dough hit the palate. I'm sure you've done this 100x already, but very unique flavor. It was the sort of pizza that when you eat you're audibly grunting "MMMM" on your exhales, you can relate I know.

Peace!

ps, Did I mention there's no refrigerator used here?!?!?! It just 'sits around', AMAZING!  :o
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 05:28:49 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #143 on: October 18, 2010, 05:39:01 PM »
Thanks Mike. Yeah man, what a nice pizza. On the first bite I said 'wow' right away when the dough hit the palate. I'm sure you've done this 100x already, but very unique flavor. It was the sort of pizza that when you eat you're audibly grunting "MMMM" on your exhales, you can relate I know.

Peace!

ps, Did I mention there's no refrigerator used here?!?!?! It just 'sits around', AMAZING!  :o

I know exactly what you mean, Jim. Was that also your signature sauce? Damn, come to think of it, I have still to try to make it your way!  :-[
Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #144 on: October 18, 2010, 05:40:50 PM »
Jim,

Your pizza looks very artisan!  :)  I really like how there are so many bubbles in the skin.  Great job.  ;D

Norma

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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #145 on: October 18, 2010, 05:58:44 PM »
I know exactly what you mean, Jim. Was that also your signature sauce? Damn, come to think of it, I have still to try to make it your way!  :-[

No man, today I used some Prego from the jar. Yep, added some oregano and called it a day, yep.

YES IT WAS MY SAUCE!  :-D

Yeah go make some sauce, you're too good at the rest not to!

Norma, Thanks! Yeah was it bubbly alright.  Pete's gonna chime in to tell me I used 10x too much yeast any second, so I'll take the praise now before the wrath! He also made his in a room about 25 degrees hotter though, might be why mine worked out ok.

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #146 on: October 18, 2010, 05:59:11 PM »
A really interesting read and last post!

I made my first pie this weekend using a natural starter a got extremely similar results based on your descriptions.  I just posted in that thread and pointed to the starter as having a big impact on the crumb turning out like it did.  But after reading this, I have to say it has more to do with the fermentation type/time and the mixing.

I also did a bulk rise at room temp for 10 hours, then split into balls and formed.  They sat out for another 4-5 hours after that.  I produced the best crumb I've ever been able to achieve at home and this just drives home why!

Thanks!!!!  And I can't until this weekend so I can do it again :D

Offline Essen1

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2010, 06:11:17 PM »
No man, today I used some Prego from the jar. Yep, added some oregano and called it a day, yep.

YES IT WAS MY SAUCE!  :-D


Whew! Thank God you didn't...  ;D
Mike

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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #148 on: October 18, 2010, 06:37:13 PM »
A really interesting read and last post!

I made my first pie this weekend using a natural starter a got extremely similar results based on your descriptions.  I just posted in that thread and pointed to the starter as having a big impact on the crumb turning out like it did.  But after reading this, I have to say it has more to do with the fermentation type/time and the mixing.

I also did a bulk rise at room temp for 10 hours, then split into balls and formed.  They sat out for another 4-5 hours after that.  I produced the best crumb I've ever been able to achieve at home and this just drives home why!

Thanks!!!!  And I can't until this weekend so I can do it again :D

Thanks stray, glad this was helpful. The thing about this that really made it nice, I think, was one ball rose alone. This will ferment faster than 10 for example just based on volume. That said I'd say your starter was probably a bigger factor than you think in  cruising things along. Just some thoughts, and congrats on the success!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: How to Make a Long (20-24 Hour), Room-Temperature Fermented Dough
« Reply #149 on: October 18, 2010, 06:42:08 PM »
Whew! Thank God you didn't...  ;D

Could you imagine, me, Mr "You gotta cook real sauce!, You're all using raw ketchup!" using sauce out of a jar? I'd be exiled, shunned, dubbed a fraud, and banned for life! You'd all talk about me in 5 years and say "Oh yeah, I remember 'NY fancy sauce guy', turned out he really used Prego! Bahahahaha....".



"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1