Results after finding this forum

[BBQhunter]

My wife asked me to find a good dough recipe for NY style pizza, so I browsed the internet and found this forum. What a wealth of information !!! Anyways, I made a batch of dough and it was pretty good the first time out. Since then, I've been making dough on Thursday night before bed for Friday night's dinner. Other than trying to get the softness/elasticity of the dough down and consistent, it has been fairly easy for me.   I make the dough, my wife forms it, then I top it. We have an oven that will get to 650 degrees, but I'm liking it better around 550 degrees or so. At 600+, the cheese tends to brown a bit too easily for my taste. My pizza stone is 14"  and I bought a peel to go with it. I've been using Contadina crushed tomatoes with Italian herbs, which I add some garlic powder to. Then I use some Kraft grated Parmesan before I top with Sargento 6 cheese pizza blend. To our taste, it comes as close to a Papa Gino's pizza as anything could. I should mention that we LOVE Papa Ginos !!! From what I have seen, It seems to be the sudden heat from the stone that puffs the dough and causes the bubbles, which my wife likes. I think we've been doing pretty darn good !!!

Here's the second batch, baked at 550  for 6 minutes. The crust could have been thinner but the taste was fantastic. Below it is what the crust texture looked like.  Third picture down is a fresh tomato pie that I made and baked at 650 degrees(third batch), that's why it is so brown. I gently brought some extra virgin up to temp with about 3 large cloves of garlic sliced paper thin. Then I shut the heat off and let them soften. I painted the crust with that and laid on the soft garlic pieces. Next was some fresh tomato from the garden, sprinkled with some oregano and basil. Last, I sprinkled some dry Parmesan and then topped with our pizza cheese mix . It baked about 5 minutes. The next picture down is the crust texture, nice and airy on the outside edge. It was downright tasty !!!

So what do you all think ??

[briterian]

very impressivve BBQ.  Can you  share with us the recipe you decided along with your kneading process?

[JConk007]

Looks awsome !!
But as was brought to my attention, some great lookers are not allways great tasting. But for some reason, I think this tasted as good as it looks! NICE Job. Wish I could post pics. Oh, What is that cheese you are using on the one on the peel ? I noticed when I use he italian blends I also get some browning of the cheese quicker than I would like. Do you use other types as well? Grande, Low most. Fresh? Thanks
John

[Jaysus]

looks great!

[BBQhunter]

very impressivve BBQ.  Can you  share with us the recipe you decided along with your kneading process?

Here's the recipe that I've been using. It came from the Lehman dough calculator with the exception of a modified sugar ratio. As far as the kneading goes, I mix the salt and sugar in the cold water then put it in the bowl. I dump the dry ingredients on top of it then the yeast. I then put the dough hook on my Kitchen Aid and use that to mix everything until it starts to knead. Then I add the oil and knead it for about 7 minutes. Some days, I might have to add a bit of flour. I've been using King Arthur bread flour and bulk yeast from the Bread and Circus , a whole foods type of store.  I take it out when the temp is about 80 degrees or so. The dough is kind of sticky but I have found that it shapes better and is more elastic that way. Next day when it comes out of the fridge, we put some flour on the board and just dust the flour in before shaping. I should mention that I have the largest non comercial Kitchen Aid. The dough hook is very aggressive .

Lehman Pizza Dough for 2   12oz dough balls


Flour (100%):    401.65 g  |  14.17 oz | 0.89 lbs
Water (64%):    257.06 g  |  9.07 oz | 0.57 lbs
IDY (.4%):    1.61 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | .5 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Salt (1%):    4.02 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.0 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
Oil (2%):    8.03 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.79 tsp | 0.6 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    8.03 g | 0.28 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.01 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
Total (169.4%):   680.4 g | 24 oz | 1.5 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   340.2 g | 12 oz | 0.75 lbs

Knead only to a soft, manageable consistency   with a finished dough temp of 80-85 degrees F

[Pete-zza]

BBQhunter,

You might be interested in knowing that the Papa Gino's crust apparently is made only of flour, water, salt and dry yeast, and no sugar or oil: http://www.papaginos.com/nutrition.html?topic=ingredients. You might be able to get your pizzas closer to the Papa Gino's product by emulating the cheese blend (mozzarella, cheddar, Romano and oregano) and the sauce (tomato puree, crushed unpeeled tomatoes, salt, spices..and garlic powder). I didn't see any nutrition data for a 12" pizza (apparently there is no 12" size at PG's) but a basic 14" cheese pizza would weigh around 32 ounces [(113 x 8)/28.35 = 31.89 oz.] after baking and cooling (see http://www.papaginos.com/nutrition.html?topic=pizza). There is some loss of weight during baking and cooling, so an unbaked 14" PG cheese pizza would weigh more than 32 ounces.

Peter

[BBQhunter]

BBQhunter,

You might be interested in knowing that the Papa Gino's crust apparently is made only of flour, water, salt and dry yeast, and no sugar or oil: http://www.papaginos.com/nutrition.html?topic=ingredients. You might be able to get your pizzas closer to the Papa Gino's product by emulating the cheese blend (mozzarella, cheddar, Romano and oregano) and the sauce (tomato puree, crushed unpeeled tomatoes, salt, spices..and garlic powder). I didn't see any nutrition data for a 12" pizza (apparently there is no 12" size at PG's) but a basic 14" cheese pizza would weigh around 32 ounces [(113 x /28.35 = 31.89 oz.] after baking and cooling (see http://www.papaginos.com/nutrition.html?topic=pizza). There is some loss of weight during baking and cooling, so an unbaked 14" PG cheese pizza would weigh more than 32 ounces.

Peter

Peter,   
We are pretty happy with our pizza now, to our tastes it may even be better than Papa G's. We use two different cheese blends :one has mozzarella, provolone, Parmesan,Romano, Fontina and Asiago.   The other blend, which I prefer is the same except that the Provolone is a smoked Provolone..     To my taste, the crust on my modded recipe has the right balance of salt to sugar, you really can't taste any sweetness  since I think it just aids in the fermentation of the yeast. At any rate, the finished product tastes good.

I don't claim to be an expert, but as a chef, I have no fear of trying different things to improve the taste. Obviously by reading your posts, you are also into trying different things. That's what's so great about this site, it gives folks a place to come and learn new things and get new ideas.

[candyman]

Great looking pizzas.  After the dough comes out of the fridge... you kneed it before shaping it... do you give it any rest period between kneeding it and shaping it?  Just wondering, I'm trying new things also.

Joe

[Pete-zza]

Joe,

I will let BBQhunter respond directly to your question, but I generally do not advocate re-kneading the dough just after taking it out of the refrigerator. Doing that just messes up the gluten structure and can lead to all kinds of problems, including over-elasticity and the possibility of the dough tearing when trying to stretch it. This problem can sometimes, but not always, be overcome by letting the dough rest before using it. However, that can take several hours--more than the normal 1-2 hours bench warmup time. In my experience, the only time where I have found that I can safely re-knead a dough upon removal from the refrigerator is if the dough has very high hydration--usually above 65%. I did this recently with a dough with a hydration of about 68% and it returned to normal after about two hours of bench warm-up time. If you try re-kneading a dough with a low hydration, say, in the 50+% range, you are only asking for trouble.

Peter

[BBQhunter]

Great looking pizzas.  After the dough comes out of the fridge... you kneed it before shaping it... do you give it any rest period between kneeding it and shaping it?  Just wondering, I'm trying new things also.

Joe

Actually we're not really re kneading it, just dusting it with a bit of flour. The last 2 batches were a bit sticky, but the wife liked the stretch of it for shaping into pies. She was able to get the middle of the crust "window pane" thin. I just made a batch for tomorrow night's supper and lessened the hydration by 1%. The dough came together real nice, seemed less sticky, and the kneading time was also shorter. I guess I'll find out Sat. night how it is for forming into pies and of course how the taste and texture are. I just love my Kitchen Aid Pro 600 !!!   The whole thing from start to finish is under 10 minutes. One other thing I'm doing and I don't think I've mentioned, is that when I take it out of the fridge I let it warm up to room temp at least 2 hours while it is still covered in the bowl. Then we form the pies when it is warm enough to work with.

[candyman]

BBQHunter/Peter,
Thanks for clearing that up for me... I saw where it originally said kneed after taking it out of the fridge and thought maybe I was suppose to do that too.

I don't have a Kitchen Aid mixer, I just have a Sunbeam Heritage and I HATE the dough hooks on it.  Tell me something, what is the difference in the Kitchen Aid pro and the Artisan???  For home use is the Artisan just as good and can you still use all the same attachments???

Joe

[Pete-zza]

Tell me something, what is the difference in the Kitchen Aid pro and the Artisan???  For home use is the Artisan just as good and can you still use all the same attachments???

Joe,

If you go to the KitchenAid website at http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/category.jsp?categoryId=310, you can use the comparison feature to compare different models. But, basically, apart from power, I would say that the biggest difference is that the Artisan model has a C-hook and the Pro series uses a spiral hook, which is better than the C-hook. Given the choice, and budget permitting, I personally would go with the Pro series.

Peter

[Jackitup]

2nd that. I have the Pro 600 and like it alot. I gave my other one to my daughter. The spiral hook is very nice. If you have a Kohls near you they usually have it priced pretty good and will usually match prices from other joints.
Jon

[candyman]

Thanks guys... guess I'm going with the Pro!  I'll have to slip the difference in price by my woman... maybe send her to look at shoes while I check out.  If caught, there may be lots of groveling involved... but I will go PRO.

Joe

[Jackitup]

After 30+ years the groveling doesn't even bother you anymore......

[GreenEggChef]

Good looking pies!

I have found that the best tasting thin-crust pies are made without oil, just good flour (I use King Arthur's Sir Galahad Flour), salt, yeast, and water. Also, the absolute best taste comes after cold-proofing the dough. I have tried using fresh dough without cold-proofing using the exact same ingredients and the flavor just wasn't there.

Mike