Author Topic: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????  (Read 8691 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BBQhunter

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12
NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« on: October 28, 2008, 12:13:19 AM »
I know, pizza isn't supposed to be healthy but my wife's female boss and CEO has requested me to make her a whole wheat pizza. She loves my food and thinks I can do no wrong. I don't want to disappoint her. I have a good recipe for a Lehman style dough, but I suspect that if I replaced 1/2 the flour without adding more hydration or yeast, that I will create a flop. I would guess that i might also have to add some gluten flour.

Does anyone have a recipe for whole wheat pizza dough of a New York style ???   :chef:


Offline Pizza_Not_War

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 388
  • Location: Portland OR
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 12:53:40 AM »
1. Use the search feature, there are many good recipes.

2. Pizza not healthy? It sure can be if you moderate the use of cheese & meats. Adding extra veggies makes it a wonderful treasure chest of goodness. I switched over to Turkey pepperoni and that has cut out a lot of the grease and fat.


Choosing a good WW recipe would depend on your methods of baking. Higher temps would suggest that you look for a higher hydration. Check out member Novembers Ultra Grain recipes and Villa Roma's whole wheat pizza.

PNW

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22010
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 09:29:06 AM »
BBQHunter,

There are several posts and threads that are directed to NY style pizzas in which whole wheat flour, including the white whole wheat flour, is substituted for some or a good part of the white pizza flour normally called for by recipes for the NY style. If you do a search, or look at the Specialty-Grain Pizza index, you should find examples. For example, see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2759.0.html, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6493.msg55678/topicseen.html#msg55678, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2803.msg24174/topicseen.html#msg24174, and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5401.msg47773/topicseen.html#msg47773. Members charbo and Villa Roma are two of the best on whole wheat pizzas in general, so you should look for their posts (or hope they respond to your post).

Peter


Offline PizzaAnyWay

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 05:09:15 PM »
I have had success with substituting 1/3 of the bread flour with whole wheat without changing the water content.  My family was very pleased with the outcome.

Jeff

Offline BBQhunter

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 01:11:40 AM »
Thanks guys. I actually did use search, but after the fact and spent a couple of hours reading the WW recipes and Supergrain recipes. Now to see if I can find some of that Hogdon Mills flour.

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2008, 09:08:18 AM »
Thanks guys. I actually did use search, but after the fact and spent a couple of hours reading the WW recipes and Supergrain recipes. Now to see if I can find some of that Hogdon Mills flour.

BBQ.....So far I've used King Aurthur WW flour, Gold Medal stone ground WW flour, and Hodgson Mills stone ground WW graham flour to make whole grain pizza.

KA is a very finely milled flour followed by GM which is what I consider a medium milled flour and HM is a very course milled flour. I would not attempt to make a 100% whole grain pizza from the HM flour, it's too course.

You should be able to find the GM WW flour at your local supermarket and that's what I'd go with. When I use either of the other two flours I cut them with the GM flour as the KA is too fine and the HM is too course.

My current recipe is:

Whole wheat flour 100%
Water 85-90% cold
IDY 1/64 tsp/100 grams of flour
sugar 2%
salt 2%
oil 2%

I use a K5 Kitchenaid mixer with a spiral hook. Place the water in the bowl and add everything else. Mix to combine and let rest 30 minutes. Mix on speed 2 for about 10 minutes or until the dough temp reaches 72 degrees. Scale and place in lightly oiled containers for about 24 hours. I keep the temp around 55 degrees. Let the dough come up to room temp if you wish or use them straight from the cooler.

    Good luck....Villa Roma
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 11:57:05 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline scottfsmith

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 117
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2008, 09:33:10 AM »
I have followed Villa Romas technique on this thread:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5682.0.html

It makes great pizza.  I think the long ferment and high hydration are very important.  I now use a slightly different recipe, no oil or sugar and 80% hydration. I have found it harder to form the pizza, that has been the trickiest part.  Use a whole ton of bench flour or it will stick, and be extra super gentle in handling the dough, or it will rip. I use King Arthur WW flour because that is the only brand the local store sells and it works fine for me.

Last weekend I made some whole wheat pizza which was 3/4ths KA WW and 1/4th cooked whole 8-grain cereal.  I was surprised at how amazingly good it was.  My kids devoured it and complained I did not make more.  The one downside was it was extra hard to form the pizzas since the whole grains could help rips start.  Be extra super gentle and perhaps settle for a slightly thicker crust than you had initially planned.

Scott


« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 09:39:12 AM by scottfsmith »

Offline Fingerstyle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2008, 10:18:11 AM »
I'm using Giusto's OG WW.   +1 on excellent results from VR's recipe/method. Super-peel a big help handling the very wet dough.
"... I say we ride some gravity." - Patrick Rizzo http://vimeo.com/1654340

Offline charbo

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: Northern California
  • Wheat
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2008, 01:55:09 PM »
BBQhunter,

If you donít want to get caught part-way down the whole wheat learning curve when your wifeís boss is there, maybe you should stay with 50% whole wheat.  Just add extra water to your regular recipe.  You donít need extra yeast.

Regarding whole wheat flour, Iíve gotten away from white wheat, because I donít think it has enough flavor.  Also, I think King Arthur White Whole Wheat has questionable gluten strength, especially for pizza.

cb

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2008, 01:52:23 PM »
BBQHunter......I would follow Charbo's advice, whole grain pizza is not the eaisiest pizza to master. For some inspiration, follow this link to may lastest batch.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5682.msg63345/topicseen.html#msg63345


     Villa Roma


Offline dan f.

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 35
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 07:21:02 PM »
What about adding vital wheat gluten (vwg), say a TBSP to 2 1/2-3 cups of WW flour?

Would it help in terms of texture, extensibility?

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2008, 08:17:20 AM »
FREEZE!!  DROP THE VWG AND STEP AWAY FROM THE MIXER!!!

 :-D :-D :-D As you can see I'm not a big fan of VWG although I've seen it listed in several whole grain recipes.
If you employ the proper techniques, you'll find that neither VWG or high gluten flour are required to make great WW pizza.

Sometime in the next month or two I'm going to make another video demonstrating how to make 100% WW pizza. I will also show how I stretch out the dough to get a .1 thickness factor with whole wheat. I may even try to see just how thin I can stretch a WW dough. A 9" pizza will require a 162 gram dough ball at .090 thickness factor. I'll have to start training.

Until then you may wish to visit Jeff Varasano's web site. A lot of his techniques apply when making WW pizza.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 02:02:31 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline scottfsmith

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 117
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2008, 11:45:55 AM »
VR, do you think the mixing helps you get a low thickness factor?  I have been just doing stretch-and-folds on my WW dough.  I feel I need a touch more coherence in the dough to minimize ripping.

Re VWG, I have thus far not noticed any significant difference with it and have gotten excellent rise without.

Scott


Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2008, 12:11:54 PM »
VR, do you think the mixing helps you get a low thickness factor?  I have been just doing stretch-and-folds on my WW dough.  I feel I need a touch more coherence in the dough to minimize ripping.

Scott


The mixing definitely results in maximum gluten development. My dough never tears and stretches like white flour. When I was doing the stir/stretch and fold method the dough would tear and wasn't as light as my latest WW recipe. I lowered the hydration and used the mixer with a spiral hook.

My last pizza was made with 185 grams of dough and it made a pizza of 9 1/2". There's a 9" paper plate under this pizza.

    Villa Roma
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 12:36:12 PM by Villa Roma »

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2008, 01:40:39 PM »
Hello there New York thin crust whole wheat pizza fans. Guess what? They said that a whole wheat thin crust pizza was impossible. Well as you know I just love a good challenge so today I took a 170 gram WW dough ball and proceeded to see how far I could stretch it out to achieve the ultra thin elite style of pizza that we all crave.

I'm happy to report that I was easily able to stretch this bad dog out to over 11" and could have gone more but I was limited by the diameter of my peel. Even after the pizza was cooked it still measured in at a whopping 10 1/2". We all wish we had 10 1/2", don't we?  :-D :-D :-D

Anyway, my precise calculations reveal that even if I use the 10 1/2" cooked diameter of this pizza the thickness factor is a mind numbing .070, right up there with the big boys from NYC. How did it taste? Well after just one bite I was looking around to see if I could spot the Empire State building.  ;)

As an added bonus I took a 103 gram dough ball and stretched it to 8 1/2" cooked. That calcs to a .065 thickness factor.

   Thin is in!!!.....Villa Roma
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 09:41:03 AM by Villa Roma »

Offline Kookoutside

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 07:53:12 AM »
Villa Roma,

First of all thanks for all the good ideas your sharing here.  I've made a number of batches and have yet to get it quite right.

I made a batch using your "current recipe" as described above in this string. I also watched your YouTube demo using a spiral hook on the Kitchenaid.  I mixed the batch in my Kitchenaid using the spiral hook and then let it rest for 30 minutes as per your recipe.  After resting and about 1 minute into the 10 minute "knead" at speed 2 my dough came together nicely but after another minute it became sticky again and remained that way.  Should I have continued to add extra flour to keep the dough ball tight as its being kneaded?  After 24 hours in the cooler I made the pizza's.  The dough was very wet and sticky and I had to use a good amount of bench flour to shape the pies.  The pizza's came out OK but it seems like the raw bench flour will effect the taste.  Would using more flour during the spiral hook kneading result in less bench flour having to be used to shape the pies?

Kookoutside
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 03:30:11 PM by Kookoutside »

Offline Villa Roma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 498
  • Location: Edmond, Ok
  • In search of the ever elusive leopard spots!
Re: NY Style whole wheat pizza ????
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2008, 06:35:14 AM »
Kookoutside....Yes, the dough ball will come together nicely after the 30 minute rest but will soon break apart. I let this mix for about 8 minutes and then add about 1 Tbls of WW flour at a time until the dough clears the bottom of the mixer bowl. The dough temp will rise rather quickly from that point.

    Villa Roma


 

pizzapan