Author Topic: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?  (Read 11844 times)

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Offline Jah

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Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« on: November 19, 2008, 07:50:03 PM »
Newbie with his first post here.  Getting up to speed on pizza making and pulling together my equipment.

I have to say I was quite overwhelmed with all of the ingredient measurements as I first started my foray into the posts.  When I evolved into thinking about a proper scale, I started looking into the KD-7000.

During that inquiry, I discovered a brand new scale that I do not see reviewed, which is the KD-8000.  Apparently as good as the KD-7000 but with a "Baker's Math/Percentage Feature"

There is a little demo of it here:

Well, it seems I can't post a hyperlink as a new member.  If you go to saveonscales.com and click on the KD-8000 icon on the home page you will see the demo.

Is this any kind of a breakthrough for pizza folk like yourselves or a newbie like me in terms of ease of use and getting to accurate percentages?  The KD-8000 is around $55 and I can get a KD-7000 for around $35.  Worth the extra $20?

Thanks for any thoughts as I get started.

Jah
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 07:52:58 PM by Jah »


Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 09:02:11 PM »
Yes, and it's just a bit cheaper for Thanksgiving ($52.90) here: http://www.saveonscales.com/product_mw_kd8000.html

I will order one tonight to replace what I'm using in the kitchen now and let everyone know what I think.  I'm pretty sure I know what I'm going to think of it already though.  The KD-7000 was already one of the best scales for the money.  It seems the KD-8000 is poised to take the crown for baking purposes.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 09:24:14 PM »
For me, the baker's percent feature would not be particularly useful since I typically weigh only the flour and water (and occasionally oil), in different containers, and I use volume measurements for the ingredients used in small quantities, such as yeast, salt, sugar, etc. My yeast quantities, in particular, tend to be quite low, often below the 1 gram that the scale can read. The baker's percent feature may be more useful for bakers and pizza makers who make large amounts of dough. My dough weights tend to be on the low side, usually less than 26 ounces.

Peter

Offline Link

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2008, 10:09:17 PM »
FWIW,
I really like the AMW-2000 scale. I have owned one for more than a year, with no problems.
It claims to be .1 gram accurate.
From the amature tests that I have made, I think it is about .2 grams accurate.
The only thing that is irritating about it, it shuts off after 60sec of none use.
Amazon has it for 35.98.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-AMW-2000-Digital-Jewelry/dp/B000OIRSSU/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2008, 10:32:25 PM »
For me, the baker's percent feature would not be particularly useful since I typically weigh only the flour and water (and occasionally oil),

Peter,

Your logic seems to be askew, possibly backwards.  You just presented rationale of a feature's usefulness based on the usefulness of the entire device instead of the other way around.  If you use your scale infrequently because you measure a great deal of your ingredients by volume, that takes away from the merit of the scale, not from any of its features.  It would be equivalent to saying the AC/DC adapter would not be particularly useful for the same reason.  A sound reason for the feature's lack of usefulness would be more along the lines of "Measuring weight by baker's percent constitutes only 30% or less of all my weighing activities."

- red.november

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2008, 10:34:46 PM »
I really like the AMW-2000 scale.

The problem that many scales like that one has is their low load capacity, which limits their flexibility when weighing a lot of heavier ingredients in a batch at one time.

EDIT: I meant to mention that a higher load capacity is one reason why I like the new scale over the old.  The further they can push the limit of the 1 gram resolution, the better.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 10:38:37 PM by November »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2008, 10:55:51 PM »
A sound reason for the feature's lack of usefulness would be more along the lines of "Measuring weight by baker's percent constitutes only 30% or less of all my weighing activities."


November,

Since Jah raised the question about the baker's percent feature and its potential utility, I guess what I was trying to say is that I personally wouldn't buy the new scale simply because it has the baker's percent feature. If I had the new scale, I would perhaps use it the same way as I now use my own scale.

I will be interested in your report on the new scale and especially the usefulness of the baker's percent feature.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2008, 11:29:08 PM »
I guess what I was trying to say is that I personally wouldn't buy the new scale simply because it has the baker's percent feature.

And that makes fine sense.

I wonder about the new feature's interface and how the percentages are handled, however, I'm buying it mainly because 1) I want a new scale, and 2) I like the even larger load capacity.  The baker's percent feature comes in at a distant third, but it's a feature that definitely shows up on my curiosity radar.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2008, 12:54:45 AM »
Jah,

Thanks for the heads-up on the KD-8000! It's a scale definitely worth looking into. I found it at $55.00 at

http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-kd8000.aspx


RN,

I didn't know you like AC/DC! Too bad about Bon Scott. But also Nicolai Tesla comes to mind, whenever I hear things about Alternate and Direct Current.  ;)
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


Offline Essen1

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2008, 12:58:00 AM »
Jah,

Thanks for the heads-up on the KD-8000! It's a scale definitely worth looking into. I found it at $55.00 at

http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-kd8000.aspx


From red.november:

Quote
...AC/DC...


RN,

I didn't know you like AC/DC! Too bad about Bon Scott. But also Nicolai Tesla comes to mind, whenever I hear things about Alternate and Direct Current.  ;)
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2008, 07:31:33 PM »
I received the KD-8000 today.  After using it for a while, measuring several things with known masses, I am quite satisfied with the accuracy and especially the response time.  It determines the weight of the object very quickly.  I would speculate that this desirable attribute comes by way of the greater scale of mass spectrum it has to handle.  Where fuzzy logic is concerned, when measurement gradation inflates, the unitary "slots" become an easier target to hit.

Anyway, what I was most curious about was the percent feature.  Prior to using the product I watched the demonstration on the saveonsales.com website.  The demo was not encouraging, but fortunately the demo turned out to be lacking, not the feature.  I was concerned that I had no way of taring after each ingredient, especially between the flour and the next ingredient, because I didn't want to dump out each ingredient from the bowl after I weighed it as the demo seems to indicate.  I simply want to place the mixing vessel on the scale, tare the vessel, measure the flour, indicate that this is the "100%" ingredient, and keep measuring the other ingredients starting with zero each time.  Well, it does it just fine.

The bottom line is that it's a very easy feature to use and could be better demonstrated in the following way:

1) Use the scale like any other scale in the world with a tare feature.
2) Measure the flour.
3) Press the percent button.
4) Use the scale like any other scale in the world with a tare feature.

All that's really happening is that the percent button converts the weight per unit of mass to 100 per unit of percentage.  It's just like pressing the mode button to switch between units of measure, which honestly could have been the home to the percent "mode" as well.  I guess adding a new button helps with consumer "upgrade" impression.

I am most pleased with the product.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2008, 08:08:17 PM »
November,

Thanks for the report on the My Weigh KD-8000. I, too, wondered whether the tare feature could be used in conjunction with the baker's percent feature.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2008, 12:40:59 AM »
Peter,

Unfortunately it turns out that the demo was strictly based on the manual which twice explicitly states in bold print: "You will not need to press any other button - doing so could result in your initial calculation being reset."  So that's why the tare feature and normal scale operation are never mentioned once the scale is in percentage mode.  Taring while in percentage mode apparently resides within the realm of unsupported operation.  However, I do not share the manufacturer's pessimism.  Based on how I assume the circuitry is designed, I can't imagine a reason why the initial calculation would be reset.  So far my prediction for its operation has been accurate, and I haven't encountered any problems.

- red.november

Offline November

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My Weigh KD-8000 Recipe
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2008, 12:58:13 AM »
Here's the baker's percentage based bread formula for a single loaf that's printed in the manual as an example:

100%      flour (2 cups)
65%      water
5%      butter
2%      salt
1%      yeast
0.75%   milk (0.5 cup)

The milk is italicized because I don't know what quantity they really intended.  The percentage is too low for regular milk (not dry), and the volume measurement (34.5 g) is too high for dry milk.  The type of yeast is not mentioned, but I would guess it is supposed to be ADY.

Offline s00da

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 12:31:48 PM »
Pete, I am interested in knowing the weight-to-volume approximations you use for small measurements like yeast and salt. How do you take care of the difference between IDY/ADY and salt? since a tsp of salt is heavier than a tsp of yeast for example.

Do shed some light please  ;D

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2008, 02:17:16 PM »
s00da,

A long time ago, when I first got started on the conversion kick, Steve, the Administrator of this forum, started a thread on the conversion subject at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,82.msg579.html#msg579. I subsequently did some of my own weighings for several ingredients, including salt and dry yeast among others, and I also relied fairly heavily on data from the nutritiondata.com website (http://www.nutritiondata.com/) to do conversions for other ingredients. When I couldn't find data at nutritiondata.com to do conversions, I used data on labels for ingredients, even though that data is not always accurate because of rounding factors. For those occasional ingredients for which I could not find any data to do conversions, I used a special digital scale (My Weigh 300-Z) capable of weighing small amounts of lightweight ingredients. I had to learn to hold my breath when using that scale because the normal act of breathing could change the readings. Ultimately, all of the conversion data found its way into the various dough calculating tools listed at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html. In some cases, as when I discovered several different brands of ingredients, like vital wheat gluten, I averaged the conversion data for purposes of the dough calculating tools. It's important to keep in mind that there are several factors that can affect a given ingredient's weight, including its source, its age and how it is/was stored, whether it is hygroscopic (absorbs moisture from its surroundings), the accuracy of the scale used to weigh it, etc. I could use several methods to convert a volume of an ingredient, like salt and yeast, and get different weight values. Fortunately, they are usually not so different as to have a material effect on outcomes. When you get down to really small amounts of yeast, like 1/64 teaspoon, my scales can't weigh that small an amount. So, I use mini-measuring spoons like those shown at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5583.msg47264.html#msg47264.

Salt is normally not a problem since the tools mentioned above give users the option of selecting the type of salt used, and the baker's percents for all of the forms of salt are the same. The tool provides the weight-to-volume conversion for each type of salt. However, conversions of cake yeast to ADY and IDY, in either direction, and where the baker's percents are not the same, can be more problematic. However, for yeast conversion purposes, I often use the yeast conversion table at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm. I have also learned the rough conversions factors embedded in that table. For example, to convert cake yeast to ADY, the usual recommended method is to use 1/2 of the weight of the cake yeast; for conversion of the cake yeast to IDY, use 1/3 of the weight of the cake yeast. These conversions are not exact but they are usually close enough for our use. There are similar conversions from IDY to ADY and from ADY to IDY, for both volumes and weights. You either have to learn these conversions or use the yeast conversion table referenced above. I don't trust my memory well enough to remember all of the conversions, so I keep a copy of that conversion table at my computer side at all times.

Peter


« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 03:23:54 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Jah

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 07:04:30 PM »

November and Pete and anyone else,

I just got my scale, as well as my Kitchenaid 600 and have just started the process of making my first batch of dough!  One issue so far, though, is that the KD-8000 is turning itself off after 30 secs or so.  I'm going fairly slowly, going back to the computer for the recipe an such, and I have had to restart the scale and the process a number of times already.  I'm using the AC Adaptor too.  Any thoughts on how to keep the scale on?  I'd hate to have to be on a tight time schedule every time I want to make dough. 

Jah


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 07:18:00 PM »
Jah,

I have a Soehnle Futura lithium-battery powered digital scale with an automatic cutoff, but the cutoff time seems to be a little over two minutes. Mu unit does not have an adaptor.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2008, 09:56:28 PM »
Any thoughts on how to keep the scale on?

Yes.  Read the directions.  Page 3.  Weight Response Speed & Auto Turn-Off  It can be disabled, set to 2 minutes, or set to 5 minutes.

Offline Jah

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2008, 12:12:16 PM »
Yep, thanks November and I'm glad you are loving the scale.  I did read through the directions before the time out issue and I guess I scanned over that sentence and didn't go back. 

November, also regarding the baker's math function and not having to empty contents after weighing each ingredient, i'd like to try to repeat the process back to you to see if it is correct.  Thanks for your patience.  Is this the proper order?

Zero scale
Weigh bowl and press Tare
Weigh flour and press %
Add salt for example up to the proper percentage then press Tare
Add yeast for example up to the proper percentage then press Tare
And so on...and the scale will still be using the 100% calculation from the original flour weighing.

Correct?

Thanks for helping a new member.

Jah

P.S.  Also, Pete, I know your process generally calls for disolving salt in water, dispersing yeast into flour in a couple of steps.  Any reason you couldn't just put all the ingredients into the bowl and mix/knead with the Kitchenaid?  Sure would be more convenient and faster than adding steps as November noted.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2008, 12:51:16 PM »
P.S.  Also, Pete, I know your process generally calls for disolving salt in water, dispersing yeast into flour in a couple of steps.  Any reason you couldn't just put all the ingredients into the bowl and mix/knead with the Kitchenaid?  Sure would be more convenient and faster than adding steps as November noted.

Jah,

I like to keep the salt and yeast apart from each other as much as I can, so I add the yeast (most often IDY) to the flour where it is buffered from the salt/water "brine". I could also add the salt to the flour but I like to improve its dispersion by adding it to the water rather than to the flour. Pizza operators with good commercial mixers usually put the water in the mixer bowl first, add the salt (without stirring), then the flour, and finally the yeast (assuming it is IDY or fresh yeast). Then everything is mixed and kneaded. Sometimes the salt is added to the flour rather than to the water in the mixer bowl. I assume that a commercial mixer does this kind of mixing and kneading better than my KitchenAid mixer with a C-hook.

I believe the standard Neapolitan dough method is to add the water to the mixer bowl, dissolve the salt in the water, add the yeast (usually fresh yeast) to the "brine", and then add the flour. If the salt is not dissolved first in the water before adding the yeast, the salt can impair yeast performance by drawing moisture from the yeast cells. 

I imagine that you should be able to come fairly close to replicating my dough making sequencing of ingredients (and the Neapolitan one as well) using the tare and baker's percents features of the KD-8000. However, my typical yeast levels are sometimes too low to register on the KD-8000 scale. Otherwise, you may find that just throwing everything in the bowl together will meet your needs.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 01:26:09 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2008, 01:21:57 PM »
Zero scale
Weigh bowl and press Tare
Weigh flour and press %
Add salt for example up to the proper percentage then press Tare
Add yeast for example up to the proper percentage then press Tare
And so on...and the scale will still be using the 100% calculation from the original flour weighing.

Correct?

I would just press tare after pressing the percent button.  That way you don't see 1xx%, but rather xx%.  Otherwise you have the concept correct.

P.S.  Also, Pete, I know your process generally calls for disolving salt in water, dispersing yeast into flour in a couple of steps.  Any reason you couldn't just put all the ingredients into the bowl and mix/knead with the Kitchenaid?  Sure would be more convenient and faster than adding steps as November noted.

I often dissolve the salt in my water, and being that you have to measure it at some point in the process, I'm not sure why you think it's an added step with regard to weighing.  I always measure my salt, other dry powders or granulated substances (e.g. sugars, milk, if I use any), and yeast separate from my flour because I intend to dissolve them directly in my water.  So I dedicate a small cup for weighing all of my solutes, making my percent based weighing procedure look like the following (tare after steps 1-5):

1) Weigh the flour in a mixing vessel and press the percent button
2) Place a borosilicate glass container on the scale
3) Weigh the water then microwave it to the desired temperature
4) Place the cup on the scale
5) Weigh each solute except the ADY to the desired percentage
6) Add solutes (no ADY) to the water to dissolve completely
7) Measure ADY volumetrically and add to solution
8) After ADY is dissolved add solution to the flour and mix

On step three I actually heat the water to just beyond the desired temperature with a little more water than ultimately desired, so that the water will undergo evaporative cooling while I am measuring the rest of the ingredients, and bring the quantity and temperature of the water down to the desired levels when I'm ready to mix the solution in with the flour.

- red.november
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 01:26:43 PM by November »

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2008, 10:13:40 AM »
Peter,

I guess what I was trying to say is that I personally wouldn't buy the new scale simply because it has the baker's percent feature. If I had the new scale, I would perhaps use it the same way as I now use my own scale.

I think it's quite possible you would use the scale differently because of the percent feature.

For those occasional ingredients for which I could not find any data to do conversions, I used a special digital scale (My Weigh 300-Z) capable of weighing small amounts of lightweight ingredients.

I wanted to test it out before saying anything, but because the scale treats the "percentaged" object (ingredient) as a single unit of measure, you can grab an extra decimal place or two of precision by "percenting" 100 or 10 grams of substance.  In percentage mode there is a one-tenths place in the reading, so by percenting a 100 g object at the start, the rest of the things you weigh will have the resolution of a tenth of a gram.  I want to caution that because this scale is not designed to have that level of gradation, the method by which it comes up with the extra decimal place is fuzzy logic which is not as accurate as a scale designed for extra gradation.  However, for non-scientific weighing I think it works quite well.  I measured a quantity of salt that I knew to be 4.8 g.  I used both ways (normal and what I'll call hyperscaling).  The normal method returned 5 g as expected.  The hyperscaling method returned a number that fluttered between 4.7 and 4.8.  Then I restarted with a 10 g object and weighed a 10.3 g object using hyperscaling.  It fluttered much worse but returned a value around 103.1, so I can interpret that as 10.31g.

You wouldn't use this hyperscaling method at NASA, but it seems suitable enough for baking.

- red.november
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:24:21 AM by November »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2008, 02:04:21 PM »
November,

Now that you have the scale and have explained the features more fully (better than the seller's website), I am sure I would give consideration to the KD-8000 if I needed another scale.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Have you seen the new My Weigh KD-8000?
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2008, 02:38:31 PM »
Peter,

If someone was looking at it purely from the standpoint of that precision trick (hyperscaling), it would still be cheaper to buy the My Weigh 300-Z in addition to the KD-7000.  However, I'm sure there are many like me who appreciate owning more than one scale, but would rather have just one scale in one place at one time.  As a sub-$100 kitchen scale, you can't beat 80,000 - 800,000 load divisions.

There are a few more things I'd like to point out.  The 10.3 g object referenced above had a weight only known to the first decimal place, so the 10.31 g is perhaps more accurate than the known weight.  I recommend to anyone wanting to do this that they use a known 100.0 or 100.00 gram object, such as a calibration weight.  Using the same scale to measure out a calibration weight is self-defeating.  For best results use at least an ASTM Class 6 weight while weighing, and for re-calibrating the scale use at least an ASTM Class 4 weight.  The calibration weights I use are manufactured by Ohaus.  ASTM Class 6 calibration weights aren't that expensive.  All the 100 g weights I've seen are under $10.  A 5 kg ASTM Class 4 calibration weight is another matter.

- red.november

EDIT: I forgot to mention that if you're an advanced digital scale user, and you're feeling pretty good about your scale, you can do this with any scale that can be re-calibrated.  It just isn't very convenient.  It requires calibrating the scale with a weight that's one magnitude off by the weight the manufacturer indicates should be used.  It's a pain and I wouldn't recommend it, but there you go.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 02:48:15 PM by November »


 

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