Author Topic: A Tale of Two Sicilians  (Read 9079 times)

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Offline jeff v

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A Tale of Two Sicilians
« on: November 22, 2008, 09:08:55 PM »
After a couple of attempts at Sicilian pizza this has been my best one yet. Previous attempts were too bready, and not quite as thick as I wanted.  I used Marco’s recipe as a guide found here- http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.0.html . Again this was a guide here is the formula I used for 2 9x9 pans-

Flour KAAP- 100%
Water-75%
IDY-1%
EVOO-5%
TF-.14          Bowl Residue -1.5%

I made a polish w/ 100% water, 75% flour, and 30% IDY all very cold and refrigerated for 12 hours.  I let some of the chill come off the mixed the rest of the dry ingredients, and finally the EVOO.  Side note-if you aren’t comfortable working with very wet dough dial down the hydration. I kneaded this batch entirely by hand because it was so wet, and my KA 600 is a bit big for this amount of dough.
After an hour or so I split into 2 and placed them in 9x9 pans w/ 1.5 T of oil in them, lightly pressed them out and put them in the cold oven for another hour. When it was time to bake I preheated the oven to 500, and put the dough in the fridge while the oven preheated for 30-40 min (I read that this helped w/ oven spring). Topped 2 different ways w/ 6in1 sauce, whole milk mozz, oregano, and sausage on one.

I’m used to a 2-3 day old dough and the way it tastes, but this crust was very good. I got the texture and “poof” pretty much right, but will give it a couple days bulk ferment in the fridge next time for taste.

Jeff
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Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2008, 09:09:46 PM »
Few more pics-
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2008, 09:24:09 PM »
Jeff,

Since Marco only posted one recipe in the thread you referenced, I believe the direct link to his post is http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.msg9752.html#msg9752. (To get that link, all you have to do is click on the icon to the left of the title of the post. That will put the address for the post in the address bar, which can then be incorporated into another post by copy and paste.)

Peter

Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2008, 09:46:52 PM »
That's a new one for me-Thanks Peter.
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Offline zalicious

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2008, 06:09:05 PM »
Those look really, really good. How long was the baking time?

Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2008, 06:51:13 PM »
Thanks zalicious.

I don't do too well in the timing department-I'm more of a watcher. If I had to guess I would say 7-9 minutes.

Jeff

Edited for spelling.
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Offline JConk007

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2008, 07:37:29 PM »
Really Nice Jeff!!
As soon as I get done eating turkey I plan to try the cracker on this site then some type of deep dish Sicilian after that The indoor oven is more controlled ad common so I will experiment all winter til the first fire of spring On a brick or rack? Never removed from pan right and How much oil in pan? Thanks,

John C
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 07:39:44 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2008, 09:19:20 PM »
Thanks John, the cold has forced me indoors too! ( I'm in WI)

I used 1.5 tablespoons of oil in each pan, and baked them on the rack. Previous attempts were baked on a stone, and I didn't notice a difference. Pizza right was being eaten too fast for photos.  ::)

Jeff
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Offline aks801

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2008, 05:30:00 PM »
Jeff, those are looking great!  Unfortunately, now I am really hungry.  Those outside cooked edges really indicate to me that those are really "right": it's that think bit of crispiness on the outside of a Sicilian pizza that defines it for me (along with dollops of sauce on top).

Great job, and I look forward to shamelessly ripping off your recipe to try for myself at home.
alan in Katy, TX

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Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 05:47:56 PM »
The corner's are a hot commodity around here too!

Rip Away,

Jeff
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Offline steverino

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2008, 05:01:16 PM »
Beautiful stuff, Jeff!

Steve

Offline Fingerstyle

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2008, 09:16:20 AM »
Gorgeous pies Jeff! There's something especially beautiful about sausage tops. ;D I was going to fry some for breakfast, now I think it's going on pizza.

Vic
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Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008, 11:23:14 AM »
Thanks Steve and Vic. Hopefully tonight I will post the 80% KABF and 20% Semolina pie.

Jeff
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Offline torontonian

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 03:45:47 PM »
I'm thinking about giving this a try. Actually I have the poolish in the fridge right now.

I do have two questions though I hope someone can help me out on:

1) should there be any salt, or is this an error? Marco's recipe (from Pete-zza's link) specifies 2.5% salt.
2) My scale isn't sensitive enough to weigh yeast. I prefer the tsp-type measurements. How much yeast (IDY) and salt is being called for here? BTW, I am making the recipe with the 1000g flour + 750g water quantities from the original post.

Thanks!

-- Josh

Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 04:15:13 PM »
Hi Josh,

Glad to hear your giving this a try-hope it works well for you. Yes I put salt in the dough...my mistakefor leaving that out.

Based on 1000g flour 1% IDY would be a little over a tsp, and 2.5% Morton's Kosher salt would be just under 2 Tbs.

Good Luck,

Jeff
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 04:27:27 PM »
Josh,

Since you are in Canada, you may need to adjust the amount of Kosher salt that Jeff quoted if you are using another brand, such as Diamond Crystal. If you are using the Windsor brand, you may want to check the labeling information to calculate the proper conversion based on the weight (2.5 grams) used in Jeff's recipe.

Peter

Offline torontonian

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 06:41:53 PM »
Thanks guys. That clarifies.

I will take Jeff's original comment and give it an extra day or two bulk refrigeration.

I'm also a little unclear on how much dough the 1000g/750g mix will yield. I have a 9x9 and a 9x13 pan to fill. Also how thick did you lay out the dough in the oiled pan? Looks like you ended up with a final thickness of about 0.5 to 0.75 inches.

Cheers,
Josh


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 08:35:30 PM »
Jeff can check my work on this, but it he used a thickness factor of 0.14 and a bowl residue compensation of 1.5%, to make enough dough for two 9" x 9" pans, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I get the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (75%):
IDY (1%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Total (183.5%):
Single Ball:
355.65 g  |  12.55 oz | 0.78 lbs
266.74 g  |  9.41 oz | 0.59 lbs
3.56 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.18 tsp | 0.39 tbsp
8.89 g | 0.31 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.85 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
17.78 g | 0.63 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.95 tsp | 1.32 tbsp
652.62 g | 23.02 oz | 1.44 lbs | TF = 0.1421
326.31 g | 11.51 oz | 0.72 lbs
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.14; for two dough balls for two 9"x 9" pans; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

If the above is correct, if Josh wants to scale the above dough formulation for two pans, one 9" x 9" and the other 9" x 13", then the dough formulation for that case is:

Flour (100%):
Water (75%):
IDY (1%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Total (183.5%):
434.69 g  |  15.33 oz | 0.96 lbs
326.01 g  |  11.5 oz | 0.72 lbs
4.35 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.44 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
10.87 g | 0.38 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.26 tsp | 0.75 tbsp
21.73 g | 0.77 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.83 tsp | 1.61 tbsp
797.65 g | 28.14 oz | 1.76 lbs | TF = 0.1421
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.14; for dough for a 9" x 9" pan and a 9" x 13" pan; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Of the total dough batch weight, 326.31 grams (81/198 x 797.65 grams) will be for the 9" x 9" pan, and 471.34 grams (117/198 x 797.65 grams) will be for the 9" x 13" pan.

If Josh has already made a preferment with 1000 grams of flour and 750 grams of water, the total dough formulation looks like this:

Flour (100%):
Water (75%):
IDY (1%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (5%):
Total (183.5%):
1000 g  |  35.27 oz | 2.2 lbs
750 g  |  26.46 oz | 1.65 lbs
10 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.32 tsp | 1.11 tbsp
25 g | 0.88 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.21 tsp | 1.74 tbsp
50 g | 1.76 oz | 0.11 lbs | 11.11 tsp | 3.7 tbsp
1835 g | 64.73 oz | 4.05 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation

If the last table is correct, Josh will have too much preferment and will have to scale it back to fit his pan situation (the second table above) or make more than two pizzas.

Peter


Offline torontonian

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 09:21:25 PM »
Peter - you are awesome. Thanks for clarifying!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2009, 09:26:11 PM »
Thanks for clarifying!

Josh,

Let's wait to see what Jeff says. It's possible that I misunderstood what he did.

Peter

Offline jeff v

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2009, 08:42:44 AM »


If Josh has already made a preferment with 1000 grams of flour and 750 grams of water


Josh is going to be eatling lots of pizza, hopefully you have a big family!  ;D




Peter,

You are correct, and thanks for taking the time to scale the formula. It's getting to be that time of year for me to do more work on these...

Josh,

When you get used to working with the dough calculator it becomes really easy to scale recipes for all sorts of different situations. In my case for two 9x9 pans I just had to cut the single dough ball in half to get the "right" thickness and amount of dough in the pan, because that's the thickness I plugged in the calculator. Make sense? They are a great tool.

Jeff
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 08:45:39 AM by jeff v »
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Offline torontonian

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2009, 09:58:46 AM »
Don't worry - no shortage of pizza lovers around here!

I took this dough out of the fridge this morning to weight it to compare against Peter's calculations, and Jeff you're right this is a very wet dough. Difficult trying to weigh such an unyielding blob.

In any case, did you par-bake the crust at all? I know for some other thick crust pizzas I've made, especially those in a pan, I've found that I've needed to.

Thx,
Josh

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2009, 10:19:53 AM »
Josh,

In your case for your two pans, I think your best bet is to measure out about 763 grams of your preferment and combine that with about 2 more grams of IDY (about 2/3 teaspoon), and

Morton's Kosher Salt (2.5%): 10.87 g | 0.38 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.26 tsp | 0.75 tbsp
Olive Oil (5%): 21.73 g | 0.77 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.83 tsp | 1.61 tbsp

Then divide the final dough into the two dough batch sizes for your two pans. For the remaining (unused) part of your preferment, you will have to use the expanded dough calculating tool to figure out how to adapt it to the sizes of your pans. As noted previously, you will need 326.31 grams of dough for your 9" x 9" pan, and 471.34 grams of dough for your 9" x 13" pan. The math should keep you busy for a while ;D.

Peter


« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 12:27:50 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline torontonian

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2009, 10:53:59 AM »
Peter,

Actually, I used equal amounts of flour and water (in case that wasn't clear) 750g of each, plus about 1 tsp of IDY. I chilled this for about 12 hours (per Jeff's instruction), and then added 250g flour, 1.74T kosher salt, and 3.7T EVOO, and 2.2t IDY. This has been sitting in my fridge overnight.

I weighed it this morning and it was 1650g. Less than the 1835g you calculated, but I had quite a bit of bowl and hook residue, due to the wetness.

By my math, I can split the dough in two, and fill the 9x9 and 9x13 today, and do it all over again tomorrow  ;D

Josh

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A Tale of Two Sicilians
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2009, 12:38:20 PM »
Josh,

I misread what Jeff did in his original post. What he did and what you did was to create a poolish. I revised my last post so as not to mislead anyone.

What you did was correct and I think you should be able to make a total of four pizzas with a little bit of dough left over.

FYI for future purposes, when I make doughs that will have very high hydrations I use a bowl residue compensation of around 3%. But, even then, I try to salvage as much of the dough as possible.

Peter



 

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