Scilian Pizza Making Video

[pftaylor]

I happened across an online video of the owner of I Carusi (he's Scilian, but his restaurant is located in Melbourne Australia) demonstrating how he makes his traditional Southern Italian pizzas from the ground up. It is truly facinating to watch a master at work. He doesn't fight the dough but rather he expertly crafts his recipe by hand with old fashioned love. It reminds me of my Great Grandmother forming the volcano of flour in her kitchen.

Here is the very long link: http://media.theage.com.au/?rid=12224&sy=age&source=theage.com.au%2Farticles%2F2003%2F11%2F24%2F1069522526312.html%3Ffrom%3Dstoryrhs%26oneclick%3Dtrue&t=233MRI&player=wm7&rate=261&ie=1&flash=1

I think you can click on the above link or copy and paste it into your address bar, press enter, and it should start the video. If you have a good video card you can right click the video and choose full screen for a bigger picture.

I have a number of questions that revolve around Pietro's technique which perhaps the forum members can clarify for me;
1) Why is he using milk and cold water?
2) What are the approximate ratio's of ingredients. He appears to use the "eyeball" method.
3) Can anyone tell if he is using 00 Flour?
4) Why does he add EVOO directly to the milk/water/salt/sugar mixture? (I thought conventional wisdom was to keep EVOO away from the yeast mixture)

When he talks passionately about producing pies with the right amount of crunch and foldability it makes my mouth water. I have to try this recipe out...

[Pete-zza]

My comments:

1) It is quite common in Italy to see pizza dough recipes that call for milk, including Neapolitan style pizzas using doughs based on 00 flour.  Milk produces a softer crust and crumb, adds crust coloration and provides additional flavor.  It is far less common in the U.S. to see milk products used in pizza doughs.  When it is added, it is usually for increasing crust coloration and generally takes the form of a dry, high-heat baker's grade milk.  The high heat disables the whey proteins (and possibly some enzymes) in milk, which adversely affects the fermentation process.  Liquid milk can also be used but it is generally recommended that it first be scalded and allowed to cool before using.  The same applies to low-heat dry milk that is reconstituted in water.  As for the cold water, I suspect that it is used as part of the timing aspect of Pietro's dough management process, i.e., to slow down the fermentation process so that the dough doesn't reach its peak stage prematurely (when it is to be used).  We don't know from the video how much yeast is being used, but if a fair amount is used, or if the kitchen area is hot, the cold water becomes even more important to slow down the fermentation process.

2) and 3) I can't tell from the video what ratio of ingredients are being used or if 00 flour is used.  I did a Google search on the restaurant and found a recipe that is attributed to Pietro and uses a mixture of semolina flour and "bakers" flour, which is basically the same as our all-purpose flour.  The recipe is at http://www.miettas.com/food_wine_recipes/recipes/chefs_recipes/icarusi.html.  00 flour is available in Australia and it is possible that Pietro uses it, but I couldn't tell from the resolution of the video on my PC.

4) Most people tend to mix the olive oil in with the water and other ingredients because it seems to be the natural thing to do.  But in recent years, the notion has developed of kneading the oil into the dough after the other ingredients have been combined and kneaded.  The theory is that kneading the oil in earlier impedes hydration of the flour (mainly the starch) by forming a barrier to absorption of the water. 

Peter

[Arthur]

FYI - nerd lesson...
for large URL's you can use tinyurl.com - converts into smaller URL.  Like the one above:

http://tinyurl.com/57obq

[Pete-zza]

I took a closer look at the recipe I linked above.  As is often the case with recipes posted on the Internet, there is something missing in the recipe.  I'm pretty certain it is the water. With a total of 500 grams of flour (100 grams of semolina and 400 grams of bakers flour), which converts to about 1.10 pounds, the 1/2 cup of milk would be insufficient to create a usable dough ball.  On the assumption that the hydration percentage (percent of water by weight of flour) is around 53%, which is somewhat typical of a Neapolitan 00 dough (which I am using here just as a proxy), I calculated that the recipe would need about 3/4 cup of water in addition to the milk. Since the recipe doesn't say how much total liquid to use, there is no way to calculate the actual hydration percentage used.  Since fine semolina flour is finer than bakers flour, I suspect the amount of water required may be even more than 3/4 cup (I would guess about a cup).

The recipe is also silent on the number of pizzas that can be made with the recipe.  On the assumption that the pizza is 13-inches in diameter, as the recipe suggests, I estimate that for a thin crust pizza, the dough would allow you to make two pizzas.

Peter

[canadianbacon]

I just happened to check out this thread and glad I did.... a very good video.....

here's a short link to it: http://tinyurl.com/6l49t

if you have really long links you can go to www.tinyurl.com and then plug in the long one, and it will spit out a short one
which will now work forever, or so they say 

Anyway a great video... will have to watch it again.

Mark

[Samm]

Cool vid! I liked that guy he seems to have the heart and soul of a artisan.

Thanks for posting the link. Somtimes I really like to get a feel for the person and the soul of the pizza chef. It adds the diffrence to the pizza he makes.
Samm

[piroshok]

My comments:

1) It is quite common in Italy to see pizza dough recipes that call for milk, including Neapolitan style pizzas using doughs based on 00 flour.  Milk produces a softer crust and crumb, adds crust coloration and provides additional flavor.  It is far less common in the U.S. to see milk products used in pizza doughs.  When it is added, it is usually for increasing crust coloration and generally takes the form of a dry, high-heat baker's grade milk.  The high heat disables the whey proteins (and possibly some enzymes) in milk, which adversely affects the fermentation process.  Liquid milk can also be used but it is generally recommended that it first be scalded and allowed to cool before using.  The same applies to low-heat dry milk that is reconstituted in water.  As for the cold water, I suspect that it is used as part of the timing aspect of Pietro's dough management process, i.e., to slow down the fermentation process so that the dough doesn't reach its peak stage prematurely (when it is to be used).  We don't know from the video how much yeast is being used, but if a fair amount is used, or if the kitchen area is hot, the cold water becomes even more important to slow down the fermentation process.

I often use the same combination it is a popular form of pizza used in Argentina as well where there is a huge Italian community.     

2) and 3) I can't tell from the video what ratio of ingredients are being used or if 00 flour is used.  I did a Google search on the restaurant and found a recipe that is attributed to Pietro and uses a mixture of semolina flour and "bakers" flour, which is basically the same as our all-purpose flour.  The recipe is at http://www.miettas.com/food_wine_recipes/recipes/chefs_recipes/icarusi.html.  00 flour is available in Australia and it is possible that Pietro uses it, but I couldn't tell from the resolution of the video on my PC.

My guess by looking at how he handles the dough is definetly not 00 but kind of all purpose flour or baker's flour around 11% that gives a wonderful focaccia
   


4) Most people tend to mix the olive oil in with the water and other ingredients because it seems to be the natural thing to do.  But in recent years, the notion has developed of kneading the oil into the dough after the other ingredients have been combined and kneaded.  The theory is that kneading the oil in earlier impedes hydration of the flour (mainly the starch) by forming a barrier to absorption of the water. 

Indeed if oil or fats are incorporated early to cut the flour this action inhibites gluten formation 
piroshok


Peter

[D.C. Pizza Master]

My comments:

1) It is quite common in Italy to see pizza dough recipes that call for milk, including Neapolitan style pizzas using doughs based on 00 flour.  Milk produces a softer crust and crumb, adds crust coloration and provides additional flavor.  It is far less common in the U.S. to see milk products used in pizza doughs.  When it is added, it is usually for increasing crust coloration and generally takes the form of a dry, high-heat baker's grade milk.  The high heat disables the whey proteins (and possibly some enzymes) in milk, which adversely affects the fermentation process.  Liquid milk can also be used but it is generally recommended that it first be scalded and allowed to cool before using.  The same applies to low-heat dry milk that is reconstituted in water.  As for the cold water, I suspect that it is used as part of the timing aspect of Pietro's dough management process, i.e., to slow down the fermentation process so that the dough doesn't reach its peak stage prematurely (when it is to be used).  We don't know from the video how much yeast is being used, but if a fair amount is used, or if the kitchen area is hot, the cold water becomes even more important to slow down the fermentation process.

2) and 3) I can't tell from the video what ratio of ingredients are being used or if 00 flour is used.  I did a Google search on the restaurant and found a recipe that is attributed to Pietro and uses a mixture of semolina flour and "bakers" flour, which is basically the same as our all-purpose flour.  The recipe is at http://www.miettas.com/food_wine_recipes/recipes/chefs_recipes/icarusi.html.  00 flour is available in Australia and it is possible that Pietro uses it, but I couldn't tell from the resolution of the video on my PC.

4) Most people tend to mix the olive oil in with the water and other ingredients because it seems to be the natural thing to do.  But in recent years, the notion has developed of kneading the oil into the dough after the other ingredients have been combined and kneaded.  The theory is that kneading the oil in earlier impedes hydration of the flour (mainly the starch) by forming a barrier to absorption of the water. 

Peter

on your last point....honestly though..i think he just added the olive oil into the bowl because its a pain in the ass to add olive oil while your kneading the dough with your hands...if he were using a machine..im confident he would add the olive oil later..anyhow..thats true what you said

[Christopher]

hey guys,
i tried the recipe for the crust from i carusi over the weekend and was not impressed with my results. i dont think it was the recipe itself, but something was not to my liking. the crust texture was nice, being lightly crispy on the outside and quite soft and flexible on the inside. overall the texture was nice, being able to totally fold the pizza in half and still retain crispness. the flavor though was a bit "corny" and sweet. maybe the semolina? maybe sugar? this was my first attempt with semolina. the dough also expanded incedibly fast. i gave it a 1.5 hour rise on the counter and it grew about 25% larger and then placed in the fridge for 24 hours. the dough was easy to work with and i baked it on a pizza pan. i dressed them with mozzarella and crushed tomatoes.
some techniques i used that could have contributed to problems were these:
i steamed milk to 200F with espresso machine steam wand.
milk was 2% (all we had)
All Purpose Flour was Gold Medal

i am going to experiment further with this crust as it had some good qualities and see if i cant adjust the flavor to my liking. if it was the semolina adding the flavor i will probably avoid it from now on. i probably forgot to add a thousand things and details, but i cant recall them all. if you guys have any ideas, questions or suggestions pleas feel free...

thanks,
christopher

[Pete-zza]

Christopher,

Thanks for posting on the results of your use of the iCarusi recipe. On the surface, it looks like one I may want to try only because it uses ingredients, like semolina and milk, to try to improve bakers flour, which I understand to be very similar to our all-purpose flour. However, it is possible that Pietro does not use the recipe in his own restaurant. I think it is common practice for successful and popular pizza makers to offer up "home" versions of their recipes for inclusion in newspaper or magazine articles for use by home pizza makers. In some cases, the reason appears to be because of ingredients, like 00 flour, that are not readily available to most home pizza makers, but in other cases I suspect it is to keep their best recipes secret and away from competitors.

Peter

[Christopher]

hi, Pete-zza,

yeah, I figured that to be the case. i can fully understand their reasoning. i am going to keep experimenting with this style though. maybe bread flour/semolina mix or high gluten/semolina...or the best, "00"/semolina.

now in your experience, does semolina have a corn taste to it?

thanks,
christopher

[Pete-zza]

Christopher,

When I have eaten or made pizza doughs with semolina I have not been able to detect the flavor of the semolina. That seems to make sense given that semolina flour is used so much for making pasta, which has a non-intrusive taste.

Peter

[Christopher]

hi, pete-zza,
thinking about that now that would make sense. the crust was well worth experimenting with. i enjoyed the texture although the rim was a bit too thin and crispy for me. i used a rlling pin as described and would like to try hand forming next time. i have one more dough for tonight and will see if 48 hour rise tastes any different.

thanks,
christopher

[Christopher]

well, guys,
i must say i had that last dough ball last night for dinner and the flavor was much improved with the 48 hour rise. my wife and i both liked it a lot. i did not rub oil over the crust and was much paler and less crispy than last time. that didnt bother me too much though. it was dressed like a margherita.
i will be experimenting with other flour combos here soon and will post results with photos. a pretty good style of pizza.
christopher

[CrackersSouth]

Well guys, I made my first Pietro Barbagallo (I Carusi) pizza today.... delicious.  I too wondered how much water he used in his recipe. After watching the video several times, I decided to just go for it.  In Canada we use both Imperial and Metric so I converted the recipe to make it easy for me.
500 grams= 17 oz..( 4 oz of semolina and 13 oz all purpose flour.)
1/2 cup warm milk
3/4 cup water (this I figured out by trial and error)
1/4 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
2 tsp olive oil
2 tsp yeast

Because I make a lot of bread I like to use my bread machine to knead the dough, then make everything by hand, yeah, I'm lazy too...
I started by adding the milk, then I mixed all the dry ingredients together and added them to the machine and last I added the olive oil. I started to add water to the mixture to get the right consistency, not too firm and not to watery. This was about 3/4 cup of water by the time I got it right. kneaded for 25 minutes.
I then put the dough in a bowl , covered and let it rest for 1 1/2 hrs till it doubled in size. I then divided it in two and let it rise another 20 minutes. (enough for two 12 inch pizzas)
  The first pizza I rolled out really thin, then added tomato sauce, herbs, mozzarella cheese, pepperoni, green peppers and mushrooms and garlic...I preheated the oven to about 500F and used a pizza screen, cooked them for about 17 minutes.... this pizza was way better than my 2nd one that I made with a regular crust, even though the crust was crispy and really good, both my wife and I preferred the thin crust. Overall, I would give this recipe an 8 out of 10, very tasty and easy to make. We live in the country and nobody around here makes a decent pizza, the best place being 100 miles away in Toronto... with a little practice and refinement, with the flour mixture,  I think I can get this right.
Cheers.... Dave

[pizzapower]

this really helped, thanks for the clarafication

PIZZApower to all