Author Topic: high gluten flour  (Read 37549 times)

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Offline jesso

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high gluten flour
« on: January 20, 2005, 12:13:09 PM »
I can't get High Gluten Flour, but I can get bread flour.

Does anyone know how much gluten flour to add to bread flour to make it High-Gluten flour?

For example the recipe on this site say 3 1/2 cups of high-gluten flour for New York Style Pizza.  How many tablespoons would you add of Gluten Flour?

Thanks


Offline canadianbacon

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2005, 12:18:19 PM »
Hi Jesso,

you should read this topic that I started only yesterday:
http://forum.pizzamaking.com/index.php?topic=768.0

scroll down also to the image I posted.... I bought some additive yesterday ( some gluten flour) which you add to regular flou
to get that gluten count up.

Mark
Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline Randy

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2005, 01:26:59 PM »
Those of us in the states get our high gluten flour from here if we can't buy it localy.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/start/ahome/main.html

Randy

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2005, 01:28:56 PM »
that's it  ;D

I'm moving to the States,... actually I'm going to buy a house right beside King Arthur! hehehe  ;D

Mark
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Offline canadave

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2005, 01:46:18 PM »
I'm right behind you, Mark...it's so frustrating not being able to get that stuff here! (well, at least at non-exorbitant shipping prices...)

On a positive note, I asked my mother to see if she could find some Carnation Malted Milk powder and ship it to me.  I got a phone call here in Edmonton from her on her cell phone, standing in a NYC grocery store, saying: "I think I found some, how much do you want me to send?"  So I'm going to get three small bottles of the stuff.

Dave
« Last Edit: January 20, 2005, 01:47:49 PM by canadave »

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2005, 01:58:53 PM »
Hi Dave,

wow, malted milk,,, ok that's a new one.... I know my parents used to drink malted milk ages ago, - perhaps made by Borden ?
that's the name that comes to my mind..... malted milk yum.

Wow, so that must have been an exciting call  :D

Ok now what are you going to do with it ? is this something to make as a milkshake ? or are you going to try and use this in your pizza dough ?

By the way, I posted last night about the stuff I bought at the BulkBarn... go to : http://www.bulkbarnfoods.com/

ah darn ! ... it seems the Bulk Barn is NOT in Alberta at all :-(  ......... oops.

Anyway I bought some hard flour and something called " gluten flour " ... you add a tablespoon of this to 3 cups of regular flour
to "up" the protien in the flour ...... I guess more protien = more gluten.

anyway I haven't used it yet, but will do so on the weekend.

*** I am wondering......... do the pizza places up here in Cold Canada use regular flour ? and then add in this gluten flour to "up" the gluten content ? .... or do they buy "pizza flour "

I am assuming they just buy high gluten flour "00" ..... but in reality if this high gluten flour worked with regular flour, you could see these guys in pizza joints adding in say 100 lbs of regular flour and then 3 lbs or gluten flour and mixing it in their huge mixers... ( I don't have the ratios right but you get the idea )..... but I rather doubt it.........

Mark

Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline canadave

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2005, 03:13:48 PM »
Mark, regarding the malted milk powder: maybe you missed this thread (doubtless because we didn't have such a neat "read latest unread posts" feature!): http://forum.pizzamaking.com/index.php?topic=690.0

To answer some of your other questions:

I'm sure most pizza places up here order their supplies from wholesalers--that would include things like high-gluten pizza flour.  Check "Canadian Pizza Magazine" (http://pizza.retailfoodservice.com/Current_Issue.htm) for lists of suppliers--I don't think any would serve little retail fish like us though ;)

The "gluten flour" you mention is really "vital wheat gluten", an additive that is available just about anywhere (I got some at my local Safeway supermarket a while back) in their baking section.  I tried adding it to some bread flour, but I think this was when I was making bad pizzas--the result, as I recall, wasn't very good, but it may have been my inexperience in general making pizzas at that point :)  In any case, I soon found what I assume is high-gluten flour at a Superstore wholesale place, so the point became moot for me.

Also you mentioned "high-gluten flour '00'"....I think that's a misnomer, isn't it?  My understanding is that "00" flour is very low in gluten.  Maybe one of the other regulars can clarify this point?

Dave

Offline canadianbacon

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2005, 03:58:17 PM »
Hi CanadaDave,

Thanks for the link to that thread... nope I had missed that one ! .... wow, some good info there and some good images of pizza....
I can't believe I missed out on that tread  ::)

I want to try that pizza in there.... the "stuffed one" .... I hope "It's In The Sauce" can tell us how he made it.

Mark
Pizzamaker, Rib Smoker, HomeBrewer, there's not enough time for a real job.

Offline canadave

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2005, 04:01:59 PM »
No problem, glad you're finally getting a look at that thread, which I found very helpful and informative :)

By the way, not sure if you saw this thread either, but as a Canadian it might be of some interest to you:
http://forum.pizzamaking.com/index.php?topic=687.0

Dave


Offline DKM

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2005, 10:02:07 AM »
One thing I like to remind people of from time to time is "Bread" and "High Gluten" are lables picked by the flour company.  I have seen bread flours with as much protien content as High Gluten.  Take you glasses and calculator and make sure you know the %.

DKM
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Offline Randy

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2005, 11:37:52 AM »
Oh boy DKM, I can't tell you how many times in a store I have slipped on my wives reading glasses to read a label.
LOL
Randy

Offline canadave

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2005, 11:59:11 AM »
You think you guys have it bad...up here in Canada all the labels are in English AND French...and guess which side of the 20-kilo bag of flour is always turned outward for viewing? ;)

Offline DKM

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2005, 01:09:09 PM »
Oh boy DKM, I can't tell you how many times in a store I have slipped on my wives reading glasses to read a label.
LOL
Randy

Not sure i would have admitted that  ;)

But I do get some looks some times when people see me looking at the flour with a calculator.

DKM
I'm on too many of these boards

Offline Randy

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2005, 02:38:35 PM »
Down here in the states spanish has recently taken some of the label space.  Not sure how it happned but it has.

Randy

Offline canadave

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2005, 03:12:33 PM »
and I'm all for multiple languages on products....I just hate having to bend down and turn the 20-kilo bag around so I can see what the fine print says in English ;)

Offline Gils

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2005, 02:09:13 PM »
Hi there,

you might try this. 

http://www.theartisan.net/Flours_One.htm

It gives a little info on the protein contents of a lot of branded flours. Down towards the bottom of the page  is a button that will bring up a protein comparison chart. Might help those who can't find high gluten flour in their area get a better idea of what is on the shelf in their area stores.

Hope it helps.

Mike

Offline duckjob

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2005, 02:47:31 PM »
Thought I would mention something regarding purchasing KASL flour online. If you search amazon.com for it you will find it. It is being sold through amazon by King Arthur, but I found that the shipping through amazon was about half of what king arthurs website quotes me.

*edit*

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00021LZOW/?tag=pizzamaking-20


Offline DKM

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2005, 11:58:36 AM »
Hi there,

you might try this. 

http://www.theartisan.net/Flours_One.htm

It gives a little info on the protein contents of a lot of branded flours. Down towards the bottom of the page  is a button that will bring up a protein comparison chart. Might help those who can't find high gluten flour in their area get a better idea of what is on the shelf in their area stores.

Hope it helps.

Mike

That's got some good information.

DKM
I'm on too many of these boards

wayno

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2005, 10:04:32 PM »
I have been able to buy ALL TRUMPS FLOUR (high gluten) from a local grill. Got the name of the grill from the local food distributor/wholesaler for General Mills.

It comes in a big 50# bag and cost me $20.00 with tax.

It is a general mills product for BAKERS.

see this link and look for unbleached all trumps type flout.

http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/pflour.asp

they also have an excellent brochure for pizza crusts.
http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/pindex.asp

Wayno


Online Pete-zza

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2005, 09:13:01 AM »
The General Mills brochure on pizza doughs is a good primer on the subject.

What intrigued me most about the brochure was the statement about dough temperature. The brochure mentions that of all the technical calls General Mills Bakery Flour receives from pizza operators, 80 percent of them involve issues relating to dough temperature.  Another interesting point made in the brochure is that for every 15 degrees F increase in temperature (up to 100 degrees F), the rate of fermentation doubles.

None of this is to suggest that one cannot make a good pizza using high temperatures. I have experimented with doughs with high finished dough temperatures (well over 90 degrees F) and using a lot of yeast (several teaspoons) and have been able to produce good pizzas. The dough expands like crazy, as much as threefold, even in the refrigerator, and even has to be knocked down once in a while to prevent it from running away. This type of dough management wouldn't be practical in a professional pizza making environment. Just the tripling in dough size would require three times as many dough boxes, and having to restrain the dough so that it doesn't overferment and "blow" would require a degree of attention that pizza operators would not be willing to devote to the process. That's one of the reasons why many operators prefer the low-yeast, low-temperature, low-rise dough like the Lehmann NY style dough. The dough management is much easier, more predictable, and less temperamental.

Peter

Offline Tekari

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2008, 07:45:19 PM »
pete,

what happens if you take the high temp lots of yeast type dough let it rise for 2 hours and then use it? what are you losing out on vs the low temp low yeast wait 12 hours?


Online Pete-zza

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Re: high gluten flour
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2008, 09:18:11 PM »
Kevin,

I anticipated your question and addressed it in another post, at Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7489.msg64486.html#msg64486. The protein/gluten content of a flour is only part of the matter, as you will see when you read Reply 11 mentioned above.

Peter