AH-BEETZ

[Art]

Great photos and excellent looking pies. I think we would enjoy each other's pizza.  Art

[tdeane]

Great photos and excellent looking pies. I think we would enjoy each other's pizza.  Art

Thanks Art! I'm sure we would.

[JConk007]

Nice work Terry! and nice pictures I can smell how good they are. Curious a slice of plain here in $2.00 or more A slice that caliber would be upwards of $3.50 here in NJ same market in BC? Wishing you many sunny days ahead
John

[tdeane]

Nice work Terry! and nice pictures I can smell how good they are. Curious a slice of plain here in $2.00 or more A slice that caliber would be upwards of $3.50 here in NJ same market in BC? Wishing you many sunny days ahead
John

Most of the places that offer slices here are 99 cents, so I am much more expensive. Although, the other slice places here have some of the worst pizza known to man, but people gobble it up because it's cheap. I'm talkin frozen dough, frozen cheese, frozen cold cuts and frozen sausage pellets. Really bad!

[Pete-zza]

Terry,

I agree with the others on the high quality of your pizzas.

It looks and sounds from the high quality ingredients you are using that you are making a pie that reflects the characteristics of typical Dom DeMarco's pies but with better fermentation of the dough and a better tasting crust and a few other twists. Is that an accurate assessment?

I know you just recently opened but I'd also be curious to hear how the locals have been reacting to your pies, given their propensity for cheap pizzas with low quality ingredients. Also, has using the Camaldoli starter in a commercial setting posed any logistical (or other) problems?

Peter

[tdeane]

I use baker's percentages for my dough so I don't know the exact thickness factor or hydration of the dough, but if someone wants to figure it out these are my numbers.                     flour 100%
                                           water 65%
                                           salt  3%
                                           starter 9%
                                           IDY 1.5%
The starter was in 50-50 poolish form and I did not take the poolish into consideration when I calculated the other ingredients. I have been experimenting with less and less IDY and I think I am going to start leaving it out completely as it doesn't seem to be affecting my results. The protein of the flour is 12.86% which for me, is a good number. I experimented with higher protein flours but I think something in the 12.5 -13 range is good for me. This dough stretched so easily I could have made a 22" pie with it no problem. I used Morton Kosher salt(I can't find Diamond Crystal which I really prefer).

[tdeane]

Terry,

I agree with the others on the high quality of your pizzas.

It looks and sounds from the high quality ingredients you are using that you are making a pie that reflects the characteristics of typical Dom DeMarco's pies but with better fermentation of the dough and a better tasting crust and a few other twists. Is that an accurate assessment?

I know you just recently opened but I'd also be curious to hear how the locals have been reacting to your pies, given their propensity for cheap pizzas with low quality ingredients. Also, has using the Camaldoli starter in a commercial setting posed any logistical (or other) problems?

Peter

I would definitely say my pies are in the Dom Demarco mold but with local ingredients and a sourdough crust. The Camadoli starter has been working great because I keep it active all the time. As far as customer reaction goes, we have only been open for a day and a half so far. We opened because the health inspector gave us the green light(actually he said we were spotless which is something I am proud of)and told us we were allowed to open. So, we opened and sold a few pizzas a slices with rave reviews from the people that tried the pizza and even had a repeat customer in the day and a half we were open. Then we find out that we're not supposed to be open until we get the final inspection which is the building inspection which we can't get now until after January 1st. So, thanks to the health inspector i have a bunch of vegetables and about 6lbs of Italian sausage that I have been scrambling to use up. Today I am going in to the restaurant and make a few pizzas and then I'm going to walk around the neighborhood and give out small slices. Oh well, no big deal, it's not a huge loss of money. I just found out that the local paper is doing a story on us after the new year. So, that's great.

[Pete-zza]

I use baker's percentages for my dough so I don't know the exact thickness factor or hydration of the dough, but if someone wants to figure it out these are my numbers.                     flour 100%
                                           water 65%
                                           salt  3%
                                           starter 9%
                                           IDY 1.5%
The starter was in 50-50 poolish form and I did not take the poolish into consideration when I calculated the other ingredients. I have been experimenting with less and less IDY and I think I am going to start leaving it out completely as it doesn't seem to be affecting my results. The protein of the flour is 12.86% which for me, is a good number. I experimented with higher protein flours but I think something in the 12.5 -13 range is good for me. This dough stretched so easily I could have made a 22" pie with it no problem. I used Morton Kosher salt(I can't find Diamond Crystal which I really prefer).

Terry,

If you are using 22.5 ounces of dough for an 18" pie, that translates to a thickness factor of 0.0884191.

As for the rest of your recipe, are you making a particular dough batch size, or at least working with a starting amount of flour (the 100% figure in your dough formulation)? And is your poolish amount 9% of the flour weight? At 1.5%, the IDY seems high. Is that figure correct or did you mean 0.15%?

Peter

[tdeane]

Terry,

If you are using 22.5 ounces of dough for an 18" pie, that translates to a thickness factor of 0.0884194.

As for the rest of your recipe, are you making a particular dough batch size, or at least working with a starting amount of flour (the 100% figure in your dough formulation)? And is your poolish amount 9% of the flour weight? At 1.5%, the IDY seems high. Is that figure correct or did you mean 0.15%?

Peter

Sorry, yeah I meant .15%

[tdeane]

Terry,

If you are using 22.5 ounces of dough for an 18" pie, that translates to a thickness factor of 0.0884194.

As for the rest of your recipe, are you making a particular dough batch size, or at least working with a starting amount of flour (the 100% figure in your dough formulation)? And is your poolish amount 9% of the flour weight? At 1.5%, the IDY seems high. Is that figure correct or did you mean 0.15%?

Peter

Poolish is 9% of the flour weight. I make 20 dough balls per batch, but I figured that wouldn't it would be better to give the baker's percentages instead because most home mixers are incapable of doing this large a batch.

[Pete-zza]

Terry,

The preferment dough calculating tool does not work using the preferment as a standalone ingredient as you used it, so I had to get a hand calculator and pencil and paper out and rearrange things so that I could then use the preferment dough calculating tool. If I got the math right using the data you provided, this is what I got for a single 22.5-ounce dough ball for an 18" pizza:

Total Formula: Flour (100%): Water (66.5072%): Salt (3%): IDY (0.15%): Total (169.6572%): Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough: Flour: Water: Salt: IDY: Preferment: Total:

375.98 g  |  13.26 oz | 0.83 lbs 250.05 g  |  8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs 11.28 g | 0.4 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.35 tsp | 0.78 tbsp 0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 637.88 g | 22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs | TF = N/A     16.92 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs 16.92 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs 33.84 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs   359.06 g | 12.67 oz | 0.79 lbs 233.13 g | 8.22 oz | 0.51 lbs 11.28 g | 0.4 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.35 tsp | 0.78 tbsp 0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 33.84 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs 637.88 g | 22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs  | TF = N/A

For a dough batch for twenty 18" pizzas, or a total dough batch weight of 450 ounces, the dough formulation would look like this:

Total Formula: Flour (100%): Water (66.5072%): Salt (3%): IDY (0.15%): Total (169.6572%): Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough: Flour: Water: Salt: IDY: Preferment: Total:

7519.57 g  |  265.24 oz | 16.58 lbs 5001.06 g  |  176.4 oz | 11.03 lbs 225.59 g | 7.96 oz | 0.5 lbs | 15.67 tbsp | 0.98 cups 11.28 g | 0.4 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.74 tsp | 1.25 tbsp 12757.5 g | 450 oz | 28.12 lbs | TF = N/A     338.38 g | 11.94 oz | 0.75 lbs 338.38 g | 11.94 oz | 0.75 lbs 676.76 g | 23.87 oz | 1.49 lbs   7181.19 g | 253.3 oz | 15.83 lbs 4662.68 g | 164.47 oz | 10.28 lbs 225.59 g | 7.96 oz | 0.5 lbs | 15.67 tbsp | 0.98 cups 11.28 g | 0.4 oz | 0.02 lbs | 3.74 tsp | 1.25 tbsp 676.76 g | 23.87 oz | 1.49 lbs 12757.5 g | 450 oz | 28.12 lbs  | TF = N/A

As you can see, using the 50/50 starter as you did results in a total formula hydration of 66.5072% rather than 65%. Also, the other numbers, for example, for the starter, salt and IDY, change slightly when using the preferment dough calculating tool. Of course, you can reorder the ingredients like you did, but then you would have to use a hand calculator and pencil and paper (or create a spreadsheet) if you want to change dough batch sizes. With the preferment dough calculating tool, if you use the 66.5072% hydration figure, the tool will do the recalculations for other dough batch sizes. I did not include any bowl residue compensation in the above dough formulations. If you decide to drop the IDY altogether, that will change the numbers a bit if you want to maintain the 22.5-oz. dough ball size. In that case, the dough formulation would look like this for 20 dough balls:

Total Formula: Flour (100%): Water (66.5072%): Salt (3%): Total (169.5072%): Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough: Flour: Water: Salt: Preferment: Total:

7526.23 g  |  265.48 oz | 16.59 lbs 5005.48 g  |  176.56 oz | 11.04 lbs 225.79 g | 7.96 oz | 0.5 lbs | 15.68 tbsp | 0.98 cups 12757.5 g | 450 oz | 28.13 lbs | TF = N/A     338.68 g | 11.95 oz | 0.75 lbs 338.68 g | 11.95 oz | 0.75 lbs 677.36 g | 23.89 oz | 1.49 lbs   7187.55 g | 253.53 oz | 15.85 lbs 4666.8 g | 164.61 oz | 10.29 lbs 225.79 g | 7.96 oz | 0.5 lbs | 15.68 tbsp | 0.98 cups 677.36 g | 23.89 oz | 1.49 lbs 12757.5 g | 450 oz | 28.13 lbs  | TF = N/A

For your purposes, when I used your baker's percents for a single dough ball, I got the following after using the total percents figure (177.15%) to calculate the amount of flour (12.7011 oz.) for a single 22.5 oz. dough ball:

100%, Flour, 12.7011 oz.
65%, Water, 8.255715 oz.
9%, Starter, 1.143099 oz.
3%, Salt (Morton's Kosher), 0.381033 oz.
0.15%, IDY, 0.0190516 oz.
Total percents = 177.15%
Total weight = 22.5 oz.

Peter

[tdeane]

Wow Peter, that looks like a lot of work. I usually just use pencil, paper and a calculator. Of course I have all my numbers aleady worked out for my batch sizes so I don't have to do it every time. I have been doing batches of 20, but I think my mixer should be able to handle a batch of 30 doughs. I should also add that I usually go a little over 18" when I stretch my doughs, so it may be a little thinner than what you calculated. Thanks for doing all that work. I hope somebody tries the recipe because it works very well for me and imo, make a very authentic NY pie.

[tdeane]

Oh, I just realized that you didn't adjust the salt %. It would actually be lower than 3% because of the poolish.

[Pete-zza]

Terry,

It's been a long while since I last had to do baker's percents calculations with a hand calculator, so it was a good refresher exercise to keep me from getting stale.

Most members would have to use a smaller pizza size than 18" since few have pizza stones and, in some cases, ovens, large enough to bake 18" pizzas. But it is easy enough to use the preferment dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment_calculator.html to make the modifications.

You are correct about the salt. If one wanted to use the original amount of salt, 0.381033 oz. (for a single 18" pizza), the salt percent would be 3.01659% when using the dough calculating tool. However, doing this will only cause the various ingredient quantities to change because all of the ingredient weights have to add up to 22.5 ounces, as noted below. That is a design constraint of the tool. As you can see, the differences are slight and hardly distinguishable when measuring out items like salt volumetrically. And some of the differences are lessened by the rounding of numbers by the tool to two decimal places.

Total Formula: Flour (100%): Water (66.5072%): Salt (3.01659%): IDY (0.15%): Total (169.67379%): Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough: Flour: Water: Salt: IDY: Preferment: Total:

375.94 g  |  13.26 oz | 0.83 lbs 250.03 g  |  8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs 11.34 g | 0.4 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.36 tsp | 0.79 tbsp 0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 637.88 g | 22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs | TF = N/A     16.92 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs 16.92 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs 33.83 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs   359.02 g | 12.66 oz | 0.79 lbs 233.11 g | 8.22 oz | 0.51 lbs 11.34 g | 0.4 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.36 tsp | 0.79 tbsp 0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 33.83 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs 637.88 g | 22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs  | TF = N/A

Peter

[tdeane]

Terry,

It's been a long while since I last had to do baker's percents calculations with a hand calculator, so it was a good refresher exercise to keep me from getting stale.

Most members would have to use a smaller pizza size than 18" since few have pizza stones and, in some cases, ovens, large enough to bake 18" pizzas. But it is easy enough to use the preferment dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment_calculator.html to make the modifications.

You are correct about the salt. If one wanted to use the original amount of salt, 0.381033 oz. (for a single 18" pizza), the salt percent would be 3.01659% when using the dough calculating tool. However, doing this will only cause the various ingredient quantities to change because all of the ingredient weights have to add up to 22.5 ounces, as noted below. That is a design constraint of the tool. As you can see, the differences are slight and hardly distinguishable when measuring out items like salt volumetrically. And some of the differences are lessened by the rounding of numbers by the tool to two decimal places.

Total Formula: Flour (100%): Water (66.5072%): Salt (3.01659%): IDY (0.15%): Total (169.67379%): Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough: Flour: Water: Salt: IDY: Preferment: Total:

375.94 g  |  13.26 oz | 0.83 lbs 250.03 g  |  8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs 11.34 g | 0.4 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.36 tsp | 0.79 tbsp 0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 637.88 g | 22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs | TF = N/A     16.92 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs 16.92 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs 33.83 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs   359.02 g | 12.66 oz | 0.79 lbs 233.11 g | 8.22 oz | 0.51 lbs 11.34 g | 0.4 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.36 tsp | 0.79 tbsp 0.56 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.19 tsp | 0.06 tbsp 33.83 g | 1.19 oz | 0.07 lbs 637.88 g | 22.5 oz | 1.41 lbs  | TF = N/A

Peter

You could adjust the salt like that but I don't. I calculate the salt in relation to the flour before adding the poolish because I want the salt a little lower than 3%.

[JConk007]

Terry,
Oh Yes the final inspection is a must. Being in marketing and sales I really love the idea of spreading the goods / samples around. Heres a slice, a menu and a coupon for your first visit. See you soon! The public loves anything for free, and it goes a long long way. Those recipes are beyond my scope of dough making but someday if I keep it up? I did order some starter so I will be experimenting further and deeper into the dough.
Thanks

[tdeane]

I just found out that both local papers are going to do a story on us which is great.

[Vlap]

Dang that looks good! Can ya ship a slice of chorizo, artichoke, & onion my way? 

[JConk007]

Make sure you get the front page Terry.
Also terry as a  grand opening gift I will gladly send you a large unopened container  of Diamond Crystal to compare,
anything for a fellow pizza maker. Any future  comments and advice on your endevour will be priceless.
PM your store address to me and I'll  gladly send it out for you with good luck!
John

[tdeane]

Make sure you get the front page Terry.
Also terry as a  grand opening gift I will gladly send you a large unopened container  of Diamond Crystal to compare,
anything for a fellow pizza maker. Any future  comments and advice on your endevour will be priceless.
PM your store address to me and I'll  gladly send it out for you with good luck!
John

Thanks John! I really prefer Diamond Crystal but I haven't been able to find any around here yet.