Pillsbury bread flour, good results anyone?

[s00da]

Pete,

You contributed a lot in helping me make my best pie so far. Thanks a lot, allow me to share some images with you...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33165571@N06/

[anton-luigi]

Looks fantastic sooda,  what can you tell us about your cooking process?

[Pete-zza]

Saad,

Very nice. I think you are well on your way.

Peter

[s00da]

anton-luigi,

My post started to troubleshoot an issue I had with Pillsbury bread flour so as you can see, baker %'s changed from my initial post. Mainly, hydration is 62.5% and salt at 1.75%. The rest is pretty straight forward, I follow Varasano's wet-kneading technique but I still have many experiments to come specially after I found this forum      I assume you're asking about the baking process.

As I read more and more about the required temperatures to perfectly bake an NY-Neapolitan style pizza, it hit me that I could have an oven done to my specifications so I can perfectly bake a pizza. The result was an iron oven that can comfortably fit a 15 inch pizza. It has a middle tray to fit a baking stone in the middle of flame-throwing action! Upper and lower flames can be adjusted by valves to get the appropriate heat distribution. Two images below that I hope to be self explanatory 

One thing you need to know is that this oven is dangerous and extremely hot, if not controlled properly the temperature can climb up beyond 800 degrees. I do not advise or advocate building or using such ovens.

Saad

[Pete-zza]

Saad,

In view of your technical interest in dry yeast, I thought that you might be interested in an instant dry yeast article I found among my personal files, which I traced back to http://www.lallemand.com/BakerYeastNA/eng/PDFs/LBU%20PDF%20FILES/2_9INST.PDF. As you will see, the article touches on several of the points earlier discussed in this thread.

Another good source of information on yeast is the Yeast Treatise at theartisan.net at http://www.theartisan.net/yeast_treatise_frameset.htm.

Peter

[s00da]

Peter,

I truly enjoyed scanning through portions of the material you provided. The second one looks like a good reference to go back to.

I understand now that my initial assumption was wrong as I raised a question regarding mass to volume ratio difference between IDY and ADY while having in mind the brand I am using while there are many others out there that could potentially be very different.

I believe now that comparing different yeast types should only be according to desired performance while having in mind that the current provided measurements/conversions from any source are just a good reference for a starting point.

Saad

[Pete-zza]

Saad,

As a final footnote to this subject, you will note that the Lallemand article discusses the effect of age on the performance of dry yeast. The IDY that I purchase, usually in a one-pound bag, can last me years so long as I keep it dry in my freezer (notwithstanding the contrary storage recommendations of yeast producers). To counteract the effects of aging on yeast performance, I usually add a bit more (a small pinch or two depending on the amount) of the yeast when I am preparing the dough. As previously noted, the distinction between the two forms of dry yeast were embedded in the dough calculating tools more out of technical purity than anything else, given all the many variables that can affect dry yeast and its measurement and performance. If I were making commercial quantities of dough, then I would pay closer attention to the mass/volume differences of the two forms of dry yeast. At the one dough ball level, those differences are unlikely to matter all that much.

Peter

[s00da]

Peter,

Actually I have noticed many people saying that the IDY/ADY they have has been with them for more than one year in the fridge and they haven't noticed any change but they all comment on it that "it still works". While I'm sure it would still work, many might not notice a slight difference in performance specially if they're not accurate on measurements and observing performance abnormalities. When I read such recommendation from manufacturers, it's easy to recognize it's just them wanting to boost sales or assuring consistent performance for commercial scale.

Saad

[Pete-zza]

When I read such recommendation from manufacturers, it's easy to recognize it's just them wanting to boost sales

Saad,

If you go to a typical yeast producer website, such as Fleischmann's (http://www.breadworld.com/RecipeSearch.aspx?cat=Pizzas+and+Calzones&query=), you will find four pages of recipes under the Pizza and Calzones category. The smallest amount of yeast called for in the collection of recipes is one teaspoon. Most recipes call for two teaspoons or a full envelope. There are a few that call for using two envelopes. Apart from the fact that Fleischmann's sells yeast for a living, they also know from the complaints they receive that the most common one is that the dough doesn't rise enough, or fast enough. So, to guarantee success, Fleishmann's will recommend using a lot of yeast and overly warm water--neither of which a professional will do except for those pizza makers who find themselves in a jam and have to make pizza doughs on an emergency basis because their cooler went down overnight or some other failure befell them. You will never see yeast producers give the same advice on the use of yeast to home bakers as they give to professionals. It is far more profitable to have home bakers buy and use yeast in high quantities.

Peter

[s00da]

Peter,

It seems the the word "instant" was a mistake that's giving producers lots of angry support calls I guess it sets high expectations.

Again about the 1 year producer recommendation, I guess they could have simple said "Increase recommended amount for yeast that's kept for more than a year to compensate for age-related weakening performance"...sounds more like Viagra instructions 

Speaking of yeasts, I was checking Lesaffre website and it turns out that they have a Pizza-specific version of their IDY. The original IDY is http://www.lesaffre.com/en/yeast-bread-making/international-brands/saf-instant.html where as the pizza-specific is http://www.lesaffre.com/en/yeast-bread-making/international-brands/saf-pizza.html

Nothing much is mentioned about the difference except for "This yeast makes it possible to avoid any shrinkage of the dough (“ovalling”)." which I couldn't really understand.

Has anyone used this pizza IDY yeast before?

I hope these are the yeasts you guys been using otherwise I guess I'm all by my own

Saad

[Pete-zza]

Saad,

I use the SAF Red IDY. I have not seen the SAF strain for pizza, nor am I aware of any member having reported using same. The "ovalling" may be referring to the tendency of a rolled-out dough to have an oval shape, possibly as a result of using a commercial roller/sheeter machine to sheet the dough. Maybe the pizza yeast includes an additive of some sort to reduce ovalling. Or possibly there are more dead yeast cells/glutathione.

Peter

[s00da]

Pete,

A follow-up on my initial problem that we resolved by decreasing hydration %, I wasn't accepting the fact that GM bread can have a hydration difference of about +4% from Pillsbury bread. To me, the difference is too huge to be considered specific to brand difference.

I traced back my process and to my surprise, it didn't occur to me that the problem was that Pillsbury was in the fridge while GM was on simply on the shelf. I suspected that the fridge being a litte humid might induce water into the flour. I took the flour outside for a day to let it dry up. The next day I made my dough and yes! It achieved 66% hydration like a charm and it didn't tear during stretching.

Yes it's a noob's mistake I admit but I think I had to share this outcome as others might face similar issues.

Again Pete, your initial observation was right. Definitely hydration was high, it just took me awhile to figure out the source.

Saad

[Mamacam]

Try using general mills full strength. The tears happen because there is not enough gluten in the flour.
Pillsbury also has a 4x flour that has more gluten.

[Pete-zza]

Try using general mills full strength. The tears happen because there is not enough gluten in the flour.
Pillsbury also has a 4x flour that has more gluten.

I am not certain whether Saad has access to the GM Full Strength flour (http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/FullStrength%20Enr%20Mal%20Bl%20Bro53381.doc) or the Pillsbury XXXX Patent flour (also marketed by GM). But, insofar as gluten formation is concerned, it may be a problem with weak flours such as cake and pastry flour but I have not experienced any problems with tearing in doughs made from all-purpose flour and above. In Saad's case, he may also be trying to avoid bromated flours.

Peter

[s00da]

You are correct about both Pete. I have no access to the full range of GM or Pillsbury products and I also try to stay away from bromated flours. The strongest flours we have around are the bread flours by Gold Medal and Pillsbury. We have a local flour brand but they don't have bread flour as breads here are all in the Pita style, flat and thin. That's doesn't need a strong flour, does it ?