Author Topic: New guy seeking advice  (Read 5388 times)

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Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2009, 03:51:46 PM »
I did try the stone in the oven for size.Unfortunately the shelves have a lip at the rear, probably 1/2 inch high.If I have the stone flat on the shelf it touches the door when shut.Is that OK? Is it OK to place the rear of the stone on top of the lip,so its at a slight angle,woiuldnt be enough to displace the topping I think.
Get an unglazed tile the thickness of the lip height (1/2") and place it on the wire rack at the front of the oven, that way your stone will be supported front and back and you can push it away from the oven door.


PNW


Offline JConk007

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2009, 04:12:06 PM »
Perfect PNW Build up not out ;)
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Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2009, 06:34:09 PM »
Sounds like a plan .Will do that.

Offline JConk007

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2009, 07:50:58 PM »
While your at it get few tiles for top rack too! I like the 2 stone method indoors
JOhn
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Offline Deacon Volker

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2009, 11:44:14 PM »
John, don't know if it will work in your particular brand of oven but one trick I learned from my cake baking wife was one could turn the rack "upside down" to get that darn lip out of the way of her bigger pans.  That's the routine I've adapted for my stone as well, in fact we just started leaving that rack inverted.

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2009, 04:00:40 AM »
Never thought of that , Deacon.Will give it a go.

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2009, 07:06:29 PM »
With a dough that has been cold fermented for a couple of days, do you need to do anything to it prior to cooking? Do you just let it sit and get to room temp,then shape it? Do you have to knead it again?

Offline Essen1

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2009, 07:38:29 PM »
John,

I can only agree with Peter & JConk. You did a great job.  :chef:

Your pizza is a work of art compared to my first one (see pic). It was a disaster   ;D

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2009, 07:46:03 PM »
With a dough that has been cold fermented for a couple of days, do you need to do anything to it prior to cooking? Do you just let it sit and get to room temp,then shape it? Do you have to knead it again?
Don't re-knead !  Room temp is good, you can usually work with it a bit colder.

PNW


Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2009, 04:50:33 AM »
I made the dough formula given in reply #10 of this thread.Made it Thursday morning, has been in the refridgerator since.Had a look at it this morning, and as you can see its really bubbly??or holey??Is it no good now?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2009, 06:19:26 AM »
JohnLondon,

There are two recipes in Reply 10. One will produce a dough that will ferment a lot faster than the other and be prone to more bubbling than the other. Which is the one you used?  Bubbling is a normal phenomenon but excessive bubbling can be a sign of rapid fermentation (usually because of using a lot of yeast and/or a warm fermentation environment) or overfermentation (the dough being held too long).

Peter

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2009, 06:43:23 AM »
Flour (100%):170.39 g  |  6.01 oz | 0.38 lbs
Water (60%):102.23 g  |  3.61 oz | 0.23 lbs
IDY (0.40%):0.68 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.23 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):2.98 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.53 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Olive Oil (1%):1.7 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Total (163.15%):277.99 g | 9.81 oz | 0.61 lbs | TF = 0.0867   


This is the one I used Peter. I should mention it, because I dont know if it matters, but I havent touched the dough at all.Havent punched it down or anything.
Can this dough be used?

PS, as soon as the dough was made it was placed in its container, on the bottom shelf at the back of the fridge.The lid of the container was left open a little bit.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:44:56 AM by JohnLondon »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2009, 07:18:30 AM »
JohnLondon,

If you followed the instructions correctly, I think your dough should be OK. You shouldn't re-knead, re-ball or punch down the dough. You want to remove it gently from its container when you are ready to use it. If the lid of your container was open too much, you might have gotten a slight drying of the exposed surface of the dough. That might impede handling and shaping the dough a bit but I don't see it as a real problem.

Peter

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2009, 07:22:22 AM »
OK, thanks Peter, will try it anyway. Made the 9 hour dough recipe I used last week as well...just as a back up  ;D

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2009, 09:08:09 AM »
Used the dough last night.Was difficult to shape,ended up using a rolling pin.Avoided pinching the edges as much as possible.Tasted OK but was very crispy.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2009, 09:14:31 AM »
JohnLondon,

How old was the dough and did it want to rip as you tried to open it up? And did you re-knead or re-work the dough when time came to use it? And what was the crust color like? Was it light?

Peter

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2009, 03:00:58 PM »
Peter, I would like to make a NY pizza, but rather than a 1 -1.5 hour rise, I would like to let it rise for between 8-10 hours (this time frame actually suits me better) at room temp.

What would be a good recipe for a 12" pizza?

Thanks


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2009, 03:20:45 PM »
Peter, I would like to make a NY pizza, but rather than a 1 -1.5 hour rise, I would like to let it rise for between 8-10 hours (this time frame actually suits me better) at room temp.

What would be a good recipe for a 12" pizza?

Thanks

JohnLondon,

Can you give me an idea as to what your room temperature is, and also how many 12" pizzas you want to make? I assume that you will be using bread flour, instant dry yeast, and your new mixer. Is that correct?

When you have a chance, I'd be interested in having your response to the questions I posed in my last reply with respect to the dough you made that posed problems.

Peter

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2009, 12:07:24 AM »
Id say room temp is around mid 60s or so .The rest is correct.Pizza x 2
As for the dough I used before . It was approx 60 hours old ,it didnt rip. It was just like a piece of elastic.No re kneading or reworking as per your suggestion a couple of replies ago.The crust was pretty plae.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2009, 11:03:23 AM »
Peter, I would like to make a NY pizza, but rather than a 1 -1.5 hour rise, I would like to let it rise for between 8-10 hours (this time frame actually suits me better) at room temp.

What would be a good recipe for a 12" pizza?

JohnLondon,

As I have mentioned several times before on the forum, one of the toughest pizza doughs to make is one that is fermented at room temperature. That is because you need to have the correct amount of yeast in relation to the room temperature--which itself can vary during the course of the fermentation period--so that the dough is in the proper condition when you are ready to use it. If too little yeast is used in relation to the fermentation temperature, then you run the risk that the dough will not rise enough and you end up with a dense crust. The pizza may still taste fine but the crust will be sub-par. If too much yeast is used in relation to the fermentation temperature, then the dough may rise too fast and require punching down for another rise. As between the two cases, I would rather use too much yeast than too little and, if necessary, use a second rise and an intermediate punchdown. Punching down and reshaping the dough should also strengthen the gluten structure and allow for better retention of the gases of fermentation, as well as redistributing the yeast to other parts of the dough for purposes of the second rise.

There is also the matter of making sure that there is enough sugar in the dough, whether natural or added, to ensure decent crust coloration. As you will see at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7522.msg64710/topicseen.html#msg64710, I recently made a room temperature (actually "garage" temperature) fermented dough over a 6-hour period that, while the finished pizza tasted fine (and even better when reheated, as noted in Reply 6), the crust lacked the degree of coloration that I would have liked (the crumb was also a bit tight). Consequently, I think that it is a good idea to add some form of sugar to the dough for a room temperature fermentation that is to transpire over a period of 8-10 hours such as you have requested (for my purposes, I used 9 hours). I suggest using honey since it includes simple sugars that yeast can readily use and because honey makes a nice contribution to final crust coloration.

With the above as background, and based on the room temperature you mentioned (mid-60s degrees F), I suggest that you try the following NY style dough formulation for two 12" pizzas, as prepared using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html:

Bread Flour (100%):
Water (61.5%):
IDY (0.23%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Honey (1.5%):
Total (165.98%):
Single Ball:
337.24 g  |  11.9 oz | 0.74 lbs
207.41 g  |  7.32 oz | 0.46 lbs
0.78 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.26 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
5.9 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.06 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
3.37 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
5.06 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.72 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
559.76 g | 19.74 oz | 1.23 lbs | TF = 0.08729
279.88 g | 9.87 oz | 0.62 lbs
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.086; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

In your case, with your room temperature in the mid-60s degrees F, I suggest that you use a water temperature of around 100-105 degrees F (about 38-41 degrees C). You might want to note the finished dough temperature in case there is a need to adjust the water temperature in future dough making efforts using your new stand mixer. I would be looking for a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F (about 24-27 degrees C), although it may be a bit lower depending on your mixer and how fast you make the dough.

In your case, you have the option of doing the dough division up front or later if you decide to let all of the dough to rise in bulk. I can't tell you which is better since I have not tried the above dough formulation. So, you may want to carefully observe the behaviour of the dough during the course of its fermentation. Using the poppy seed trick might help you in that regard should you decide to use it.

Good luck. Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter


Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2009, 12:11:07 PM »
Thanks Peter, will let you know how I get on


 

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