Author Topic: New guy seeking advice  (Read 4875 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2009, 09:14:31 AM »
JohnLondon,

How old was the dough and did it want to rip as you tried to open it up? And did you re-knead or re-work the dough when time came to use it? And what was the crust color like? Was it light?

Peter


Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2009, 03:00:58 PM »
Peter, I would like to make a NY pizza, but rather than a 1 -1.5 hour rise, I would like to let it rise for between 8-10 hours (this time frame actually suits me better) at room temp.

What would be a good recipe for a 12" pizza?

Thanks

Online Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2009, 03:20:45 PM »
Peter, I would like to make a NY pizza, but rather than a 1 -1.5 hour rise, I would like to let it rise for between 8-10 hours (this time frame actually suits me better) at room temp.

What would be a good recipe for a 12" pizza?

Thanks

JohnLondon,

Can you give me an idea as to what your room temperature is, and also how many 12" pizzas you want to make? I assume that you will be using bread flour, instant dry yeast, and your new mixer. Is that correct?

When you have a chance, I'd be interested in having your response to the questions I posed in my last reply with respect to the dough you made that posed problems.

Peter

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2009, 12:07:24 AM »
Id say room temp is around mid 60s or so .The rest is correct.Pizza x 2
As for the dough I used before . It was approx 60 hours old ,it didnt rip. It was just like a piece of elastic.No re kneading or reworking as per your suggestion a couple of replies ago.The crust was pretty plae.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2009, 11:03:23 AM »
Peter, I would like to make a NY pizza, but rather than a 1 -1.5 hour rise, I would like to let it rise for between 8-10 hours (this time frame actually suits me better) at room temp.

What would be a good recipe for a 12" pizza?


JohnLondon,

As I have mentioned several times before on the forum, one of the toughest pizza doughs to make is one that is fermented at room temperature. That is because you need to have the correct amount of yeast in relation to the room temperature--which itself can vary during the course of the fermentation period--so that the dough is in the proper condition when you are ready to use it. If too little yeast is used in relation to the fermentation temperature, then you run the risk that the dough will not rise enough and you end up with a dense crust. The pizza may still taste fine but the crust will be sub-par. If too much yeast is used in relation to the fermentation temperature, then the dough may rise too fast and require punching down for another rise. As between the two cases, I would rather use too much yeast than too little and, if necessary, use a second rise and an intermediate punchdown. Punching down and reshaping the dough should also strengthen the gluten structure and allow for better retention of the gases of fermentation, as well as redistributing the yeast to other parts of the dough for purposes of the second rise.

There is also the matter of making sure that there is enough sugar in the dough, whether natural or added, to ensure decent crust coloration. As you will see at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7522.msg64710/topicseen.html#msg64710, I recently made a room temperature (actually "garage" temperature) fermented dough over a 6-hour period that, while the finished pizza tasted fine (and even better when reheated, as noted in Reply 6), the crust lacked the degree of coloration that I would have liked (the crumb was also a bit tight). Consequently, I think that it is a good idea to add some form of sugar to the dough for a room temperature fermentation that is to transpire over a period of 8-10 hours such as you have requested (for my purposes, I used 9 hours). I suggest using honey since it includes simple sugars that yeast can readily use and because honey makes a nice contribution to final crust coloration.

With the above as background, and based on the room temperature you mentioned (mid-60s degrees F), I suggest that you try the following NY style dough formulation for two 12" pizzas, as prepared using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html:

Bread Flour (100%):
Water (61.5%):
IDY (0.23%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Honey (1.5%):
Total (165.98%):
Single Ball:
337.24 g  |  11.9 oz | 0.74 lbs
207.41 g  |  7.32 oz | 0.46 lbs
0.78 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.26 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
5.9 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.06 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
3.37 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
5.06 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.72 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
559.76 g | 19.74 oz | 1.23 lbs | TF = 0.08729
279.88 g | 9.87 oz | 0.62 lbs
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.086; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

In your case, with your room temperature in the mid-60s degrees F, I suggest that you use a water temperature of around 100-105 degrees F (about 38-41 degrees C). You might want to note the finished dough temperature in case there is a need to adjust the water temperature in future dough making efforts using your new stand mixer. I would be looking for a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F (about 24-27 degrees C), although it may be a bit lower depending on your mixer and how fast you make the dough.

In your case, you have the option of doing the dough division up front or later if you decide to let all of the dough to rise in bulk. I can't tell you which is better since I have not tried the above dough formulation. So, you may want to carefully observe the behaviour of the dough during the course of its fermentation. Using the poppy seed trick might help you in that regard should you decide to use it.

Good luck. Please let us know how things turn out.

Peter


Offline JohnLondon

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Re: New guy seeking advice
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2009, 12:11:07 PM »
Thanks Peter, will let you know how I get on