Adjusting recipes -fermentation time.

[Pete-zza]

JohnLondon,

I'm glad to hear that things worked out well after all. Would you mind telling me how the dough progressed from start to finish including times? That might help me get a better feel for how much yeast to use for a winter version to get the dough to fit the window of usability you requested.

Peter

[JohnLondon]

OK, I will try.
Started off pretty sticky, but I perservered with the kneading for approx 10 minutes, it was still slightly sticky to the touch.
I placed it in a lightly oiled bowl ,covered with clingfilm (seran? wrap), it did seem to spread out a bit, but not a lot.After 6 hours I put it into a warmed oven.This seemed to wake it up...I think I messed up, fI managed to miss the bit where you said to use 105 degree water, and for some reason got it in my head that it needed to be cooler.After 1.5 hours  or so I punched the dough and left it to sit for another 1.5 hours .It did rise again, but not doubled.
When I removed it from the bowl ,it did stick a bit, but not too much.I didnt knead it.I just gently pushed it out to shape..kind of  , I still got to learn how to do that bit properly.

[Pete-zza]

JohnLondon,

Water temperature is important to this dough this time of year but it is also possible that more yeast is needed. If you repeat the experiment, it would be helpful to know whether using the warmer water solves the problem by itself.

If you plan to make this type of pizza again, you may want to consider buying a pizza screen. I believe the term used in the UK for such a screen is "whire mesh". That is what Pizza Express uses to make its 14" Romana pizzas. You might find that you get better bottom crust coloration with the whire mesh than with the pan you are now using. Before considering a whire mesh, however, you might try baking the pizza longer on your pan at the lower oven rack position to see if that produces the desired results. I would love to see some photos sometime if that is possible.

Peter

[JohnLondon]

Yes, I intend to buy a screen. And hopefully, I can follow the instructions you provided more closely  .I will be making it again next week for sure.And I will take photos.

[Pete-zza]

JohnLondon,

While you are at it, you might look into getting a good digital thermometer if you don't already have one.

Peter

[JohnLondon]

Do you mean for the room? or for the liquid?

[Pete-zza]

Do you mean for the room? or for the liquid?

Good question. I was thinking of a digital thermometer mainly for measuring the temperature of liquids and the dough itself (principally the finished dough temperature). If you don't already have a thermometer for measuring room temperature, you will perhaps want to get one of those too. I use the room temperature reading to calculate the water temperature to use to achieve a desired finished dough temperature and also to have a record in case I need to make adjustments to future dough batches.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

I have just finished the pizza. I must say it tasted fantastic. I used a sauce that I made myself  I was a bit wary of the amount of sauce/cheese recommended...and I didnt have quite the amount of cheese stated but it was great.The underside could still have done with  a bit more cooking.I cooked it on the bottom shelf for 5 minutes,then moved it up to the middle for the remainder of the time,if I'd have left it any longer the top would have burnt.I can honestly say its the best home made pizza I have ever had .Thanks Peter for all the advice and help.

JohnLondon,

You might find Replies 52 and 53 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg66312.html#msg66312 of interest.

Peter

[JohnLondon]

Thanks Peter, do you mind me asking a silly question. On a lot of pics, including those in the thread referred to above, the crust looks almost identical to shop bought pizza. Miine looks pretty nice, but it doesnt have that look.Is that because you sprinkle something on it??

[Pete-zza]

Thanks Peter, do you mind me asking a silly question. On a lot of pics, including those in the thread referred to above, the crust looks almost identical to shop bought pizza. Miine looks pretty nice, but it doesnt have that look.Is that because you sprinkle something on it??

JohnLondon,

That is not a silly question. But, no, I did not sprinkle fairy dust or anything else on the pizza. Getting the appearance of an authentic PJ pizza is achieved by having the right amounts of dough (around 21-22 oz. for a 14" pizza), sauce, cheese and, in this case, pepperoni slices. That will give you size and weight. I once counted the number of pepperoni slices on a purchased PJ pepperoni pizza and it was 44 slices. That number can vary from pizza to pizza at PJ's, especially during rush periods when the workers are scrambling, but I stuck with 44 slices for the most part. When 44 pepperoni slices are put on a 14" skin (base), they just about touch each other across the entire pizza, although they will shrink a bit during baking and shift a little. I also found that sprinkling part of the cheese (diced) randomly over the rim, as PJ does in its shops, also gave a more authentic appearance. Slicing the pizza in a pizza box, and putting a pepperoncini pepper and garlic cup (mine is just a photo prop), adds a bit more authenticity to the appearance of the pizza. I'm sure that with a little practice, you will get your pizza to look authentic also. If you do, I'd like to see some photos.

Peter

[JohnLondon]

Made another American style pizza last night.I used Mozzarella bought from the supermarket already grated.Probably used 125g or there abouts of cheese.Sauce?Im not sure how much I used,but about the same as I used last time I made it.All I could taste was cheese.Whilst not horrible, it was nowhere near as nice as last time.
Last time I used a block of cheese that I grated myself(similar quantity),it tasted really nice.

[Pete-zza]

JohnLondon,

In the U.S., most shredded bagged supermarket mozzarella cheeses contain anticaking agents to prevent clumping, and possibly other additives and preservatives. For example, see http://www.kraftfoods.com/kf/Products/ProductInfoDisplay.aspx?SiteId=1&Product=2100063044. Interestingly, when the magazine Cook's Illustrated did a comparison test some time ago, the shredded mozzarella cheeses tested well on the pizzas compared with the block cheeses: http://www.cooksillustrated.com/tastetests/overview.asp?docid=9803.

If you used about 125 grams of shredded mozzarella cheese on your most recent pizza, that is almost 4.5 ounces. That would be considered very low in the U.S. for a chain 14" pizza or even a 14" pizza from an independent. See, for example, http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=21664#21664 and http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=4843#4843.

Peter

[JohnLondon]

Yes, I saw the anti caking bit on the packaging.Is that the difference between the two forms? Because I used the same brand of cheese both times, just like I say one was already grated and the other wasnt.
The grated one tasted more like cheddar cheese than mozarella.And whereas I used similar amounts on both, the latest one tasted a lot worse.

[Pete-zza]

Yes, I saw the anti caking bit on the packaging.Is that the difference between the two forms?

JohnLondon,

The manufacturing processes will obviously be different but I don't know if the shredded version starts with the same cheese as sold in block form.

Peter

[JohnLondon]

Just bought myself a mixer. How do I go about mixing the dough and kneading it in the machine? Is there a particular order in which to add the ingredients? I have seen posts where the poster kneads for x amount of time on one speed then changes the speed for another few minutes.

[Pete-zza]

JohnLondon,

Because of the general nature of your questions, you may want to start a new topic under "General Pizza Making". If you decide to do so, you might indicate the brand and model of your new mixer. If there is a particular pizza style you have in mind, you may want to indicate that also.

Peter