Re: Blistering in a Pizza Crust (Split Topic)

[Pete-zza]

I can post a pic if ya want.

Bill,

Please do. Thanks. Please also give some history on the doughs that went into the pizzas, such as nature and duration of fermentation, etc.

Peter

[ThunderStik]

All info can be found here.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9736.msg84469.html#msg84469


You can also scan some of my other threads and see them. Sorry about the pic quality.

[Pete-zza]

A while back Norma sent me a link to a document, at http://www.farine-mc.com/2009_09_01_archive.html, that presents an explanation for the blistering of breads, under Musings on Fermentation. The relevant portion of the article is as follows:

Also regarding the crust, when fermentation is done during proofing, you get a reddish color and a lot of blisters (due to the formation of microscopic chimneys through which bubbles of gas escape during baking). Blisters are considered undesirable in France where consumers treat them as the mark of a poorly made bread. By contrast, American consumers generally find them quite attractive. A matter of taste?

Peter

[Tscarborough]

I like a nice even crusty brown.  "Leoparding", and burnt blisters are a defect to me, not a goal.

[Jet_deck]

I like a nice even crusty brown.  "Leoparding", and burnt blisters are a defect to me, not a goal.

What is your preferred cooking temp in your wfo?  What is your typical cook time?

[Matthew]

I like a nice even crusty brown.  "Leoparding", and burnt blisters are a defect to me, not a goal.

Really?  So you're saying that Neapolitan pizza is defective?

[Tscarborough]

I cook from 1000 degrees down, but prefer it to be around 700 on the dome with a 550 floor.

"Really?  So you're saying that Neapolitan pizza is defective?"

No, I am saying that a Neapolitan pizza that isn't burnt fits my tastes better than one that is.

[Tscarborough]

Look at it like this.  If I send your steak out charred, with a side of charred potatoes and some charred bread, would you consider that defective?

It is looks over taste, and my preference is for taste.  If you like it, I say go for it.

[MikeH]

Look at it like this.  If I send your steak out charred, with a side of charred potatoes and some charred bread, would you consider that defective?

char on steak and bread is great - don't think I've had black potatoes, will have to try it.

[Matthew]

"Really?  So you're saying that Neapolitan pizza is defective?"

No, I am saying that a Neapolitan pizza that isn't burnt fits my tastes better than one that is.

Fair enough; However, I wasn't questioning your preference rather the statement that leoparding is a result of a defect.  To me, there's a big difference between charred & burnt.  I don't like burnt pizza either; charred though is a different story.  Without charing it's just wood oven pizza & not Neapolitan.

Matt

[Tscarborough]

What causes it (I think) is too much spring from the extreme heat and wet dough, leading to thin spots that cook (burn) more rapidly than the rest of the crust, so unless you are specifically trying to give that look to your pizza, I would think that in any baking terms it is a defect in dough and/or technique.  Obviously, nothing can be considered a defect if you are trying to create that defect.  The question then becomes:

Do we emulate it because it is inherently good, or do we emulate it because that is how a Neapolitan is "supposed" to look?

That is where it comes down to personal taste.

[Bill/SFNM]

Do we emulate it because it is inherently good, or do we emulate it because that is how a Neapolitan is "supposed" to look?

The best pizzas I have ever made all had leoparding. Some of the worst pizzas I have ever made also had leoparding. My conclusion: it is by-product of a process that is good. But it is not the only factor and reliance on it could be defective judgement.

[Tscarborough]

Let me ask you this then:

Is it something that should be a goal to work towards, a by-process of making a pizza that does not need it, but can tolerate it, or an essential element of the pizza.

The best pizzas I have ever made did not have it, but I have had some excellent pizzas that I did not make that did.

[Bill/SFNM]

Let me ask you this then:

Is it something that should be a goal to work towards, a by-process of making a pizza that does not need it, but can tolerate it, or an essential element of the pizza.

The best pizzas I have ever made did not have it, but I have had some excellent pizzas that I did not make that did.

It is not a goal I work towards. All black spots on the surface of the crust are NOT produced by the same process.
This is a sweeping generality, but, in general, the texture of the crust comes from heat and hydration; the taste comes from ingredients and fermentation. The way the outside of the crust looks is a combination of all of these and is just an artifact.

When it comes to texture, for me the biggest defect is an undercooked or overcooked pizza - the higher the temp, the harder it is to hit that window just right. I do not use the appearance of the surface of the crust as a cue.

 

[Tscarborough]

In the WFO at high temps (<800), I use the cheese as the visual indicator of doneness, but in the kitchen oven and below 800 I use the crust.  Oddly enough, I DO like my cheese with some char, just not the crust. 

I make a high hydration dough, high enough that I have to keep it in the fridge until just before I press it out, but I do not use or like Caputo flour.  It just doesn't give me what I want, and is certainly not worth the 3x cost.  Then again, I am not really trying to emulate Neapolitan pizza, although I do make margherita ingredient pies.

[Bill/SFNM]

We are clearly making different pizzas - you probably would not enjoy the ones I make. Different strokes.

In your WFO, are you baking with a live fire? Is the crust exposed to radiant heat from coals or flames?

[Tscarborough]

Trust me, I would enjoy your pizzas.

Yes, I have a 2 log on a bed of coals fire going when I cook, mainly for light.  For a 2 minute pie at the beginning of the bake, I turn it at least 4 or 5 times, towards the end of the bake when the oven is down to 6-700 degrees I might turn it twice.

[chickenparm]

I seen a commercial tonight on TV for Cici's Pizza and their pizzas shown had the blistering bubbles everywhere on the dough rim.
These are conveyor belt oven pizzas,not cooked at high heat in wfo or something elite..

Wonder how they managed that?
 

That said,I have seen the same tiny blisters on Little Caesars pizza crusts as well.
So what gives?
 

[AimlessRyan]

I seen a commercial tonight on TV for Cici's Pizza and their pizzas shown had the blistering bubbles everywhere on the dough rim.
These are conveyor belt oven pizzas,not cooked at high heat in wfo or something elite..

Wonder how they managed that?
 

That said,I have seen the same tiny blisters on Little Caesars pizza crusts as well.
So what gives?
 

I’d say with the pizzas you mentioned, it may be the result of spraying the outside of the dough with a non-stick spray before baking (I mean blow-drying). I don’t know if they do that at either one of those places, and I’m not even sure what makes me say what I’ve said here. Just a feeling, I guess, perhaps based on something I once knew but forgot.

[widespreadpizza]

AR,  I agree about the blistering.  I also think it is caused by using oil on the outside of the dough while fermenting the dough.  -marc