Author Topic: Can a KA sourdough starter be used in combination with IDY for a great tasting p  (Read 4439 times)

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Online norma427

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Hi Norma,
I have a question if I may. What was your percentage of starter?  Like 1.5%?
Also, how do you compute your fermentation time when combining bakers yeast and starter?
Thank you,
Jeff

Whoops I meant to ask if you used about 10% Starter not 1.5%  ::)

Jeff,

You can see what formulation and mixing methods I used at Reply 39 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33515.msg332900#msg332900 I really had no idea when the KA sourdough starter and IDY dough ball would be ready.  At Reply 44 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33515.msg333022#msg333022 it can be see I posted that I put the dough in the oven with the light on to speed up the fermentation process.

I really don't recall what percentage of the KA starter I used right now.  If you want me to look tomorrow if I still have the old print out of that formulation I can look for it.

Norma
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Offline jvp123

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Its ok Norma.  You don't have to go back to your files.  I know you are busy.  I sort of backed into it 10% because I had seen your formula at at Reply 39 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33515.msg332900#msg332900.
I'll just try it at 10% with .18 IDY.  The pie looked nice for sure!   

As far as the fermentation time - I'll sort of wing it.  I have a decent understanding now of what the dough should look like when ready.  10% starter shows as 28 hours at 63F.  I'll try something like 24 hours at 63 since there is a little added IDY.

I'll definitely take off the chauflector and try the next bake at around 550-600F and just leave it low and leave it alone.

You had good results so I'm not giving up.   I'm determined to make this work.
Jeff

Online norma427

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Its ok Norma.  You don't have to go back to your files.  I know you are busy.  I sort of backed into it 10% because I had seen your formula at at Reply 39 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33515.msg332900#msg332900.
I'll just try it at 10% with .18 IDY.  The pie looked nice for sure!   

As far as the fermentation time - I'll sort of wing it.  I have a decent understanding now of what the dough should look like when ready.  10% starter shows as 28 hours at 63F.  I'll try something like 24 hours at 63 since there is a little added IDY.

I'll definitely take off the chauflector and try the next bake at around 550-600F and just leave it low and leave it alone.

You had good results so I'm not giving up.   I'm determined to make this work.

Jeff,

I found the print out from the Preferment Dough Calculation Tool and I did use 10% of the KA starter along with 0.18% IDY.  Good luck with your bake!

Norma
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Offline mitchjg

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Norma and All:

In reading through the Pizza Bible by Tony Gemignani, a section in the book caused me to think about this thread.

Tony has a recipe in the book for "Organic Dough" in the "Alternative Dough" section.  The flours in the recipe are, as you would expect, organic. 

More to the point, the dough is created with a combination of commercial yeast and starter.  The yeast is ADY, at
019% of total flour (including the flour in the starter).  The starter, which is at 100% hydration is at about 27% of the total flour (including the flour in the starter).

Once the dough is mixed, he indicates it should be refrigerated for 24 to 48 hours.

He indicates this dough can be used in any recipe that calls for his Master Dough.  The Master Dough is used for the NY Style Pizza in the book.  Therefore, Tony indicates that sourdough can be used in combination with commercial yeast to produce a NY Style dough.  And, going back to the title of the thread, I assume he would say it is great tasting!!!!

Best regards,
Mitch

Online norma427

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Norma and All:

In reading through the Pizza Bible by Tony Gemignani, a section in the book caused me to think about this thread.

Tony has a recipe in the book for "Organic Dough" in the "Alternative Dough" section.  The flours in the recipe are, as you would expect, organic. 

More to the point, the dough is created with a combination of commercial yeast and starter.  The yeast is ADY, at
019% of total flour (including the flour in the starter).  The starter, which is at 100% hydration is at about 27% of the total flour (including the flour in the starter).

Once the dough is mixed, he indicates it should be refrigerated for 24 to 48 hours.

He indicates this dough can be used in any recipe that calls for his Master Dough.  The Master Dough is used for the NY Style Pizza in the book.  Therefore, Tony indicates that sourdough can be used in combination with commercial yeast to produce a NY Style dough.  And, going back to the title of the thread, I assume he would say it is great tasting!!!!

Best regards,
Mitch

Mitch,

Thanks for telling us that after reading through the Pizza Bible from Tony Gemignani, a section cause you to think of this thread.

Interesting about what you posted.  Are you going to try the dough created with a combination of commercial yeast and starter?  If you are I would be interested in your results.  I had thought about using the Ischia starter in combination with a commercial yeast in different amounts, but never got around to playing around with that.

Norma
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Offline mitchjg

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Hi Norma:

I think there are 2 things in play here that I can identify.  First is the combination of commercial yeast and sourdough starter in the proportions that Tony describes.  Second is Tony's overall workflow and the rest of his recipe/proportions (hydration, salt, etc.).

On the first, his is not all that different than what I have done before.  I think he calls for more starter and less yeast.  I would have to try and look it up but I do not think I have gone as far as 27%.  I think I have gone as far as 20%.

So,I think the answer is "yes." 

But, first I want to see if I can "master" his Master Dough and feel successful at making his dough with just commercial yeast.  Once (and if) I find that I am confident and that I like it, then I am sure I will make a dough with his starter/yeast mix and check it out.  I have always felt that I was getting good results with a combination of the two.  I know I have liked the combination (in general, not every time) better than my commercial yeast only pies. 

But, I think my sourdough only pies may edge them both out.  For me, it is also scheduling (not that I am particularly busy).  By doing a cold ferment, and including commercial yeast,  I do have somewhat more freedom to make a pie when I feel like it as opposed to a more narrow window.  Not a big deal for me, but a consideration.  I imagine, since you are trying to run a business, that managing the scheduling is super important.

- Mitch
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 04:04:11 PM by mitchjg »

Online norma427

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Hi Norma:

I think there are 2 things in play here that I can identify.  First is the combination of commercial yeast and sourdough starter in the proportions that Tony describes.  Second is Tony's overall workflow and the rest of his recipe/proportions (hydration, salt, etc.).

On the first, his is not all that different than what I have done before.  I think he calls for more starter and less yeast.  I would have to try and look it up but I do not think I have gone as far as 27%.  I think I have gone as far as 20%.

So,I think the answer is "yes." 

But, first I want to see if I can "master" his Master Dough and feel successful at making his dough with just commercial yeast.  Once (and if) I find that I am confident and that I like it, then I am sure I will make a dough with his starter/yeast mix and check it out.  I have always felt that I was getting good results with a combination of the two.  I know I have liked the combination (in general, not every time) better than my commercial yeast only pies. 

But, I think my sourdough only pies may edge them both out.  For me, it is also scheduling (not that I am particularly busy).  By doing a cold ferment, and including commercial yeast,  I do have somewhat more freedom to make a pie when I feel like it as opposed to a more narrow window.  Not a big deal for me, but a consideration.  I imagine, since you are trying to run a business, that managing the scheduling is super important.

- Mitch

Mitch,

Thanks for telling us there are two things that come into play that you can identify.  I understand if first you want to see if you can master Tony's Master Dough and feel successful making his dough with just commercial yeast. 

I would think only sourdough pies would edge a combination out, but who knows.

The things to manage even for a small pizza business like I have are enough for me.  The problem at market, with trying to offer something that I might think is better, is most people are not that much into how crusts taste, whether it is from a sourdough, combination, 4 day cold ferment, or a one day cold ferment.  I had new customers on Tuesday.  The man and his family were from NYC, but moved here in the last 5 years.  He told me he has been searching all over around here for a really good slice of pizza for the last 5 years.  He said before he came to my stand he had not found a good NY style slice.  The man is a physician.  My dough for market is only fermented for one day.  I guess if he was satisfied how the slice tasted that is good enough for me, since he was used to good slices in NYC.  I told the man about the forum if he wants to learn to make his own pizzas.  He seemed interested.

I still want to do experiments with different things to satisfy my own curiosity.

Norma
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