Author Topic: Tonight's Pie  (Read 56794 times)

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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #100 on: April 17, 2009, 07:19:55 PM »
If you used the same percentage of yeast I do, then I think your warming fears are unfounded.  I use warm water and get a good counter rise before refrigerating, and I am still good at 8 days.  :chef:

GB, well I did, so I hope I warmed it up enough not to slow it. Again I thought it rose ok based on low yeast. Here's to hoping!

Great hand kneading dough, It handles as well if not better than Lehmann's by hand. It took a few minutes and a fast rest longer, but really nice. I'm excited! I am also taking note of your "it got better with age, a little harder to handle, but flavor wise" to paraphrase. So I'm in no rush.
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #101 on: April 17, 2009, 07:31:29 PM »
Just give it a nice bit of time to warm on the counter before you stretch the skin.  It'll do some rising then as well and you'll be good.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #102 on: April 17, 2009, 07:42:08 PM »
Do you think I was right leaving water cold as I was hand kneading, thus warming myself? My fear was too warm would make the yeast react fast and not allow the 5-8 day rest.

J,

I agree with Glutenboy. I think you will be fine. I have used water temperatures of around 45-50 degrees F, which most would consider heretical and blasphemous, and it worked. It just pushes out the window of usability. It actually takes a lot to bring a good yeast down. When I made Glutenboy's dough, it took two days of cold fermentation before the spacing between the two poppy seeds increased. It increased by all of 1/16". That represented a dough expansion of around 20%. Even with calibrated eyeballs, you would not have known that the dough expanded in volume. And you would have been wrong to conclude that the dough was dead. After 3 days, the spacing between the two poppy seeds increased by 1/8". From that point, I knew I was safe and that the dough would be fine. The whole exercise does show you, however, that you can't always rely on your senses. I used the poppy seeds as my eyes.

Peter

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #103 on: April 17, 2009, 09:00:47 PM »
Peter is dead on. I did Glutenboy's recipe a few weeks back and after 4-5 days I almost tossed it thinking I did something wrong and killed it! I figured what the hell, might as well use it and see how it goes. Turned out great with lots of blisters and the texture was fantastic. This dough will fool you just going by looks.
Jon
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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #104 on: April 17, 2009, 10:48:43 PM »
Just give it a nice bit of time to warm on the counter before you stretch the skin.  It'll do some rising then as well and you'll be good.

Excellent, I can see that indeed, and thanks for the help man.

Peter and Jon, thanks for the pov's and experience of what I should, or shouldn't, see in the days ahead. I was not worried too much as it did move in the 2 hrs. My fear was Peter and GB saying "COLD WATER!? We said room temp for a reason, you freakin' killed it! Whatzamatta you, what are you stupid or somethin' ??" Ya know, cuz they always talk like that.
 ;)

« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 10:50:42 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #105 on: April 20, 2009, 04:00:22 PM »
J
If you can't find a source of All Trumps, you may be able to use just bread flour or possibly bread flour that has been supplemented with vital wheat gluten to yield a blend that has the same protein content (14.2%) as the All Trumps. You might also want to know that Glutenboy himself used bread flour, specifically, Harvest King bread flour, to make the pizza shown at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4565.msg38409.html#msg38409. The Harvest King flour has since been replaced at the retail level by General Mills by the Better for Bread flour. That flour is widely available in supermarkets.


As I'm venturing out into the world this evening, to the store, I did research on the above. I'm finding that KABF that I use seems to have 12.8% protein and the HKBF (Made by general mills) seems to come in at 12%. I therefore have to attribute the great look of the pie you link above to higher temps over higher gluten.

To update: After 3 days the KABF balls have gone from tiny (nothing touching the sides of container) to spread in Lehmann form. I am also seeing small side profile bubbles already, making me think degassing might be in order in a couple days. Now I wish I had not oiled them, as GB also says in link above, as they may have to be re-balled and formed... we'll see!   ;D

« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 04:04:58 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #106 on: April 20, 2009, 04:17:32 PM »
J,

I lightly oiled my dough ball but did not see any need to degas or re-ball it. I left the dough as is until I was ready to use it.

Peter

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #107 on: April 20, 2009, 04:22:00 PM »
Unless they're swelling dangerously, I vote to let 'em ride and see what happens!  >:D

PS - When I was doing the degassing, I was also using more yeast, so if it's just small bubbles on the side of the container, don't do anything.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 04:23:48 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #108 on: April 20, 2009, 04:53:34 PM »
Oh yes, I concur with you both. I planned on waiting a couple days and seeing. As you say (GB) they got better the longer they sat, though harder to handle, so I'm shooting to make at least one go a full 7 days. May eat one on day 5 to see the difference. My thought came from comparing to Peter and Jon's non moving dough after 3 days. Mine's moving, but it might just stay there, so I'm keeping an eye on it.
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2009, 08:02:44 PM »
6 day rise: Great results.

The dough ball was smaller than the usual I make, from the start, and though it spread out in container it did stop there. After 3 hrs out it rose a little. It was very loose and floppy to work with, no aerial throws for this one, but I could see it was light with nice bubbling. Stretching it to 12" was a challenge, but I got it there once on the peel. The flavor was excellent, really thin yet robust. Not tough at all. Good char, beautiful NY puff/crackle rim, and crispy with good stand out while light as air under cheese. An experience that leaves you actually saying this is worth the wait!

I'll make the other 2 over next 2 days, I'll post if there's any noticeable difference from today. I almost want to make another tonight, it's that good. (Plus I got up at 6am to make a rockin' slow sauce for the occasion, always makes it even better  ;D )

« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 08:07:29 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #110 on: April 23, 2009, 08:12:03 PM »
Kudos, Pal!  That made me hungry!  :chef:
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #111 on: April 23, 2009, 08:20:20 PM »
Kudos, Pal!  That made me hungry!  :chef:


Thanks man, you really have a great one here. Really different from Lehmann post 2 day + sugar dough. I'm not knocking it at all, it's great, but keeping sugar out and going 6 days with the low yeast.. yeah really nice.

I mean I'll never be able to do this...
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7761.0;attach=12640;image
I'm convinced you had angels come down to help make that or something, but with what I work with I'm getting closer and closer! Very anxious to taste day 7 and 8!

Salut'
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 08:22:31 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #112 on: May 08, 2009, 09:45:26 AM »


I started with cold water as opposed to room temp as I was hand kneading...

Well that was the first time...

I made a 3 ball batch before my wonderful trip!  ;D This time I used room temp, and I discovered this to be the link to the phenomenon seen in GB's first page. The dough sat unattended for 6.5 days, one made on day 6, two made on day 7. In both cases, even more on day 7, the pimples appeared! Hundreds of 'em! It was like being in the waiting room of a dermatology clinic on "Free Clearasil Day". I didn't get pics, but the crust was the best yet. So light, flavorful, and amazing.

So the factoid is: Room temp water = pimples / Cold water = clear skin.
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #113 on: May 08, 2009, 10:07:27 AM »
So the factoid is: Room temp water = pimples / Cold water = clear skin.



J,

I doubt that that factoid holds water, warm or cold. I have used ice cold water many times and gotten fermentation blisters. There may be many reasons behind getting such blisters, and even the experts don't fully understand the phenomenon (see, for example, Tom Lehmann's posts at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=42217#42217), but in my experience the most common cause of the blistering is long fermentation times. For more on this subject, see the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.0.html.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #114 on: May 08, 2009, 10:22:48 AM »
Yes, it seems some don't like the blisters and actually try to avoid them. I like them though, as the over fermentation seemed to make for a better flavor, almost sour dough like.

Either way Peter, as to it not holding water, on one side I can say the over fermenting was aided by the warmer water speeding up the process early on. On the other hand, as to your cold water blistering, it might have also taken place during a long counter top rest. (?) In any case over fermenting rocks if you ask me. 

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #115 on: May 08, 2009, 10:37:56 AM »
On the other hand, as to your cold water blistering, it might have also taken place during a long counter top rest. (?)

J,

It was cold fermentation over a course of several days. I used the cold water to extend the window of usability of the dough, not to get blisters. They just came with the territory.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #116 on: June 02, 2009, 05:05:42 PM »
^on that note...


I GOT BLISTERS ON MY FINGERS PIZZA!

And I had my vegetable today, mom would be proud.  ;)
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #117 on: June 09, 2009, 04:34:30 PM »
Is that another one with my dough?  :o
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #118 on: June 16, 2009, 05:14:52 PM »
Is that another one with my dough?  :o

I wanted to wait for this day to reply to this, as I knew this day was coming...

Yeah man, here's 16 more just like it!  ;D



"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2009, 09:44:01 AM »
Hey guys, I'm in trouble here maybe, please advise!! As you can see above I got 12 new glad containers, $4.50 for 4, to add to my original 4 green ziplocks. Maybe it's the smallness of them, but yesterday when I took them out for this picture many had popped open, and the rest were under extreme pressure. This was not the case in the 4 larger ziplocks, just the new rounds. I opened them all to release gas yesterday and this morning a few popped again, the rest again under pressure. The ones that had popped yesterday appear bigger, you can perhaps visibly tell which ones they are. I am concerned as I have 3 days to go here, and I don't know what to do!  :'( :'(

Any advice? Degassing at this stage? Keep putting tops back on and hope for the best? Very stressed here...

 
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1