Author Topic: Tonight's Pie  (Read 67439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline runeli

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12
  • Location: Thailand
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #240 on: December 05, 2013, 09:20:06 PM »
it looks great. Why do you use IDY in stead of ADY for long fermentation ?

Are there any benefit using IDY?


Offline dwighttsharpe

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #241 on: December 06, 2013, 08:09:31 AM »
it looks great. Why do you use IDY in stead of ADY for long fermentation ?

Are there any benefit using IDY?

Once you make the adjustment in quantity(and maybe for the activation of the ADY), there is really no difference worth worrying over.

People tend to use what they have, or are used to working with. Most bread and pizza dough recipes here are starting to call for IDY, so that is what many here will start using when they start out, and continue doing so.
Dwight

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22300
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #242 on: December 06, 2013, 10:11:13 AM »
it looks great. Why do you use IDY in stead of ADY for long fermentation ?

Are there any benefit using IDY?
runeli,

To add to what Dwight said, one of the principal advantages of using IDY is that it can be mixed in with the flour (that is, it does not need prehydration). However, in your case, where you previously indicated that you are kneading the dough by hand (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28925.msg290918.html#msg290918), Tom Lehmann recommends that IDY be prehydrated in water at a temperature of around 95 degrees F for about 10 minutes. See, for example, Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21449.msg216597/topicseen.html#msg216597.

Peter

Offline DustinA

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: St. Louis
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #243 on: December 11, 2013, 06:20:12 PM »
This 8 day rise is killing me. It's taunting me every time I open up the fridge.

It's right up there with Chinese water torture I tell you.

Offline Glutenboy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Pizza & Sex -- Good? Great! Bad? Still okay.
    • My Pizza Gallery
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #244 on: December 14, 2013, 01:22:34 AM »
8 days isn't a commandment, you know.  It's pretty great anytime after about 4.  If you made a few doughs, stop the madness and tide yourself over!!!   :drool:
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline DustinA

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: St. Louis
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #245 on: December 16, 2013, 09:10:11 AM »
I'm actually glad I waited.  I ended up giving it a 9th day for complaining about 8.  :)

This was some incredible dough to work with.  It stretched out nice and easily, with some nice little air pockets forming before it even hit the oven.  Sauced with my favorite November sauce, topped whole milk Mozzarella cheese, pepperoni and a bit of parmesan. 

This is where I screwed up.  I decided to try a new baking trick I saw on here where you put the pizza stone on the top most position in your oven and then turn on the broiler when you put the pizza in.  I didn't let the stone heat up long enough and the top of the pie baked faster than the bottom and I got a really nasty gum line.  :(  This is completely user error and doesn't reflect on the recipe at all.    The outer crust was incredible and had a wonderful eggshell texture on the outside while remaining tender on the inside.  One my new favorites.

Offline DustinA

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: St. Louis
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #246 on: December 16, 2013, 09:11:21 AM »
I got the nice blistering that the others were noting as well.  Yum!

Offline Mullered

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 16
  • Location: UK
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #247 on: December 30, 2013, 08:16:07 AM »
Thanks for the kind words.

1) Vlap - All Trumps is a high-gluten flour put out by General Mills.  It's a bit hard to get, though if you poke around here, I'm sure you'll find sources.  I got mine from a GM rep I met.  It's the unbleached, unbromated variety.  (You can't get the bromated here in CA unless you bring it in from another state.)

2) The formulation I used for eight 300 (plus a gram or 2) gram dough balls is as follows:

All Trumps Flour -      1520 g - 100%
Water (room temp) -   928 g -  61.05632%
IDY -                        4.3 g -  .282895%   (measured as 1 teaspoon)
Sea Salt -                   38 g -   2.5%

Protocol-wise, I started with about half the flour and all the IDY in the Kitchen-Aid pro-500.  I added all the water and mixed with the spiral dough hook (and a little manual coaxing) until thoroughly combined.  Rest a couple of minutes.  Then I added about half the remaining flour and kept mixing (inspired by Varasano).   At this point it turns from batter to really wet dough and the hook has a chance to really develop the gluten.  A couple of minutes of this on settings 1 (and 2 for a bit) and I could see the webbing forming.  Added the salt and mixed a bit more.  Rested a couple of more minutes and added the remaining flour as I mixed for the final time.  Just a couple of minutes does it.  The dough was smooth and extensible.  A bulk room-temperature rise for a couple of hours.  The rise was good but not out of control.  Then I scaled and pulled the dough balls tight, oiled the containers and the doughs (I use the Gladware round containers) and put them in the fridge for a nice long nap.  No degassing like I used to with the Harvest King.  All trumps doesn't seem to forgive and recover from re-balling.  I was more generous with the olive oil (evoo) than usual because the All-Trumps dough has given me sticking issues.  This time, that was resolved.  I made the first batch of pizzas after a 4-and-a-half day rest and used up the last dough on day 8. (I made twelve doughs in all.)

Observations:  The dough handled beautifully.  Twelve hand-stretched pies and not one tear.  I even accidentally caught a stretched skin on the handle of the peel.  It just dimpled and rebounded.  I noticed that after day 6 I had to be more careful as the dough was getting a bit more delicate, but never did I hit the breaking point.  The trade off was worth it.  The older it got, the better the flavor, crumb and texture.  Best dough I've ever made.

The cheese was a mix of Belgioso fresh mozzarella (cryo log) and just a bit of Boar's head whole milk (just for kicks).  I also used some grated grana padano and pecorino romano before the Mozz went on.  The tomatoes were (I'm ashamed to admit the brand, but they were absolutely delicious) S&W crushed tomatoes in the giant can from Costco.  I strained them a bit to thicken them up, added some salt, fresh garlic and a bit of crushed red pepper, used an immersion blender to smooth the texture (just a bit) and they went on the pie like that.  Topped it all off with a pre-bake drizzle of Santini EVOO.  Fresh basil on the way out of the oven.

Don't scoff at the S&W's (I would have) till you've tried them.  They were sweet and mild.  Okay, I'm spent...  :P

-- GB

Just knocked up 4 dough balls for Friday.  The main difference in my formulation is that I used Alinson Very Strong Bread Flour (14%) and scaled the balls down to 10.5" using the Lehmann cough calculator as they need to fit in a Ferrari G3

Looking forward to seeing how they turn out!  :chef:

Offline Glutenboy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Pizza & Sex -- Good? Great! Bad? Still okay.
    • My Pizza Gallery
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #248 on: December 30, 2013, 05:42:16 PM »
Just tried something new with the GB.  I used Harvest King (B for B) with 1.5% EVOO at a whopping (for me) 69.2% hydration.  I started at 67%, and the dough was handling so well that I decided to bump the H2O.  I did it twice, 1 percent (approximately) at a time.  It still handled almost too easily.  I did a hand stretch and fold, and it was very extensible.  I'll include a screen grab of the formula.  Anxious to see how this one comes out.  I think I'm soon headed for the 70% plateau.  I have to attribute the easily handling (my hands were almost clean)  to the bit of oil in the dough.  By the way, I don't promise 315-g dough balls.  I weigh the dough after the counter rise, divide by 4, scale, ball, and put in fridge.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 05:47:04 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Glutenboy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Pizza & Sex -- Good? Great! Bad? Still okay.
    • My Pizza Gallery
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #249 on: December 31, 2013, 06:37:47 PM »
Just updating.  Made another batch and raised water to 532g to make it an even 70 percent hydration.  Looking good so far...

Edit:  Just did the counter rise, scaled, balled, and fridged.  I can't believe Harvest King took 70 percent so well.  I started with about 2/3 to 3/4 of the flour and all the water.  I mixed until I had a thick batter with lots of gluten development.  I added the IDY.  I mixed more.  I added the salt.  Mixed more.  Added the remaining flour.  Mixed until dough was fully incorporated.  Then added oil.  Mixed on speeds 2-3 until it was smooth and the bowl was cleaned.  Did a hand stretch and fold.  Very extensible.  Counter rise covered in mixing bowl.  Then balled, oiled, and in the cooler for a few days.  I have a feeling this will be very good.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 07:21:57 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.


Offline Glutenboy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Pizza & Sex -- Good? Great! Bad? Still okay.
    • My Pizza Gallery
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #250 on: January 03, 2014, 06:56:37 PM »
First pie with 3-day old dough from 69 percent hydration batch.  Sausage and mushroom pie with uncooked Great Value concentrated crushed tomatoes, a combo of Galbani, cryopack fresh mozz and Boar's Head LM whole-milk mozz, freshly grated Pecorino and Grana Padano, and a drizzle (big drizzle) of evoo.  It was tasty.  The crust was thin, and supported the toppings nicely.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Glutenboy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Pizza & Sex -- Good? Great! Bad? Still okay.
    • My Pizza Gallery
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #251 on: January 04, 2014, 04:28:40 PM »
This is what 70 percent looks like at 4 days old.  Same ingredients minus the Boar's Head mozzarella.  Delicious.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Coon88

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 43
  • Location: Pennsytucky
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #252 on: January 04, 2014, 09:54:03 PM »
Looks great...good job

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22452
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #253 on: January 05, 2014, 08:10:13 AM »
Looks great...good job

 ^^^  Great looking crumb Glutenboy!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Daft Pizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13
  • Location: Tennessee
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #254 on: April 06, 2014, 12:13:33 AM »
I would like to try this recipe.

What would the recipe be for 4 12" dough balls?

Offline rparker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 53
  • Location: North Carolina
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #255 on: November 05, 2014, 12:37:22 AM »
runeli,

To add to what Dwight said, one of the principal advantages of using IDY is that it can be mixed in with the flour (that is, it does not need prehydration). However, in your case, where you previously indicated that you are kneading the dough by hand (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28925.msg290918.html#msg290918), Tom Lehmann recommends that IDY be prehydrated in water at a temperature of around 95 degrees F for about 10 minutes. See, for example, Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21449.msg216597/topicseen.html#msg216597.

Peter
I'm getting ready to try this tomorrow. Can you or someone verify that pre-hydrating or proofing in a small amount of the water per TL's dough formula is the standard procedure needed for the GB formula as well? At one point In this thread I probably read something out of context and had been planning to just ad the ADY dry to the flour.

Thanks in advance.
R~


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22300
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #256 on: November 05, 2014, 09:21:55 AM »
R,

The recommendation that Tom Lehmann dispenses for the prehydration of IDY for hand kneaded doughs is general in nature. I had mentioned the prehydration of the IDY to member runeli because he was planning on hand kneading the dough, whereas Glutenboy uses a stand mixer.

As for the use of ADY in dry form in the dough, I would not recommend doing that. Assuming that the amount of ADY would be equivalent to the amount of IDY that Glutenboy used, I think you would find that the dough would be likely to underferment and may result in poor overall performance. The classic way of preparing ADY for use is to prehydrate it in a small amount of warm water (about five times the weight of the ADY), at around 105 degrees F, for about 10 minutes. Theoretically, you could jettison that advice and use ADY dry but you would have to increase the amount of ADY--perhaps dramatically--so that it ferments properly and is ready to use when you want to use it. You can see some of the challenges using dry ADY in a pizza dough and managing that dough at Reply 48 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg64308.html#msg64308.

Glutenboy may have his own response to your post given that he is the master of his own dough and perhaps knows it better than anyone else. So, I would be guided by whatever advice he gives you.

Peter

Offline rparker

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 53
  • Location: North Carolina
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #257 on: November 05, 2014, 03:17:27 PM »
Thanks, Peter!

Gotchya. all makes sense. I did not know until I read this thread that this was a functional difference between IDY and ADY. We'll call it a very bad Youtube video I found a month or two ago on proofing. Recalling just why I even looked at that video to begin with reminded me of something I did. Very long story short, I discovered that I have some good IDY in the freezer that I thought it was ADY. Soooo, the batch of glutenboy sitting on my counter under wrap for 102 more minutes is .35% IDY. :) 

I'll still use up my ADY for some emergency dough experiments I plan on doing. Nice to know the difference now, so thank you (and Glutenboy) very much on at least a dozen counts for all of this.

:)

EDIT: Increased yeast percentage due to needing the dough in 3 days and not being fully confident in it's "freshness", as I'm pretty sure it's been opened from vacuum pack original state for at least 6 months. Still not officially expired from the date on the back. It did ave some activity when testing it per that aforementioned video, but nothing like the new jar of ADY I tried at the same time.

I also did a 20 autolyze as another member mentioned in this thread. I did smell the yeast working, btw.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 03:27:29 PM by rparker »