Author Topic: Tonight's Pie  (Read 83642 times)

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Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2009, 11:01:39 AM »
Thanks Peter & Glutenboy.

I am looking forward to see the effect of the oil in my setup experiment. I will report back with the results.

I can't duplicate the oven temperature that Glutenboy can achieve with his oven. My oven gets to 550. And the 2stone can get well past 600 degrees as well as 600 degrees but the heat is always approximately 200 degrees above the stone temperature. Glutenboy's, I assume, is a consistant 600 degrees on the stone and the air in the oven. With the 2stone at 600 degree stone temperature I achieve great leoparding not the golden color of Glutenboys.

I am using the same flour that Glutenboy is using, All Trumps, Unbleached, Non-bromated. It is the best High Gluten flour that I have found. Better than KASL, Honeyville, and Guisto. IMHO  :)

MWTC  :chef:

Glutenboy,

It would be great if you would experiment with the oil as I am to see if it changes your results.


Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2009, 12:49:01 PM »
MWTC --

I did in fact make the batch of dough before this last one without any oil on the doughs.  The problem was that this dough (and I suppose any dough I've made) was very sticky and difficult to remove cleanly from the Gladware containiers I use.  It resulted in some tearing, misshaping, rim deflating, and general dough-handling difficulties.  When I used the evoo, every ounce of this aggravation was avoided.  That kind of confounds the experiment because I'm obviously so much happier with the olive oil.  I think I would need a proofing box with some variety of nonstick surface in order to eliminate those problems and have a fair trial.  If anyone has any bright ideas about how to set up this Frankendough experiment, please chime in.

-- GB  :pizza:
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2009, 02:23:05 PM »
This is the Pan with Lid that I always use. It fits great into my refrigerator. In fact I use two of them stacked on top of each other.

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=453550&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fshopping%2Eyahoo%2Ecom%2Fs%3Abakeware%3A4168%2Dbrand%3Dnordic%2520ware%3B%5Fylt%3Daqtbaxffnia%5Fwmac5ub90n3%5Fnbsf%3Fy%3Dnnnn%26clink%3D%26view%3D%26ovstart%3D3%26b%3D76


Have you told us how long you allow the dough to warm up out of the refrigerator before the bake? If not, how long do you allow it to warm up?

Offline koloa101

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2009, 04:08:11 PM »
i found a dealer that can sell me a 50# of unbleached unbromated high gluten all trumps for 18.50. the catch, its a 2 hr drive back and forth. anyone know of a company that can ship?

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2009, 04:43:39 PM »
Contact General Mills and tell them what you want. They will give you a number of the local rep. in your area or state. Call him and he//she will give you a list of suppliers. Call them and ask if they have a cash and carry set up for the general public. This is what I did and there was only one company in the Detroit area that carried it. It is 1 1/4 hour from my work. I now have an account with them and I feel its worth the drive to get that quality of flour.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2009, 08:43:31 PM »
Kaloa,
You are west coast?
I would not drive 2 hrs for this flour www.pennmac.com has this and caputo 00 ( and a lot of other cool pizza stuff. my time for 2 hrs is at least $100? so the minor shipping charge is not an issue. Grab some Grande cheese and a few tomatoes and have Rose ship it to  you. Spend your time experimenting with the flour not driving around the country side.
Enjoy and have fun creating your special pie
John
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 08:45:05 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline koloa101

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2009, 11:44:58 PM »

yup, thats what i did. the closest dealer is 2 hrs away.

Contact General Mills and tell them what you want. They will give you a number of the local rep. in your area or state. Call him and he//she will give you a list of suppliers. Call them and ask if they have a cash and carry set up for the general public. This is what I did and there was only one company in the Detroit area that carried it. It is 1 1/4 hour from my work. I now have an account with them and I feel its worth the drive to get that quality of flour.


id much rather pay the shipping since i drive enough during the work week! i spoke to Rose earlier today. She is going to call me first thing in the morning if the warehouse carries the unbromated version all trumps. i hope thats the case.  :) grande cheese is definitely where its at. my friend, who owns a pizzeria, gave me some to try on my home made pizzas. at his shop, he uses pillsbury high gluten flour. i think his pizzas are really good. all im thinking now is that i have to try all trumps flour, with an italian starter, grande cheese, and a nice marinara...

my mr-148 arrived today as well.




Kaloa,
You are west coast?
I would not drive 2 hrs for this flour www.pennmac.com has this and caputo 00 ( and a lot of other cool pizza stuff. my time for 2 hrs is at least $100? so the minor shipping charge is not an issue. Grab some Grande cheese and a few tomatoes and have Rose ship it to  you. Spend your time experimenting with the flour not driving around the country side.
Enjoy and have fun creating your special pie
John

Offline koloa101

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2009, 11:55:56 AM »
good news, Rose said that All-Trumps unbromated unbleached high gluten flour should be available for order sometime next week!

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2009, 05:15:06 PM »
Did you see the price of that 50lb bag of flour.  :o  $39.95 plus shipping, which will be $20.00 or more. You could buy 2 bags and and not need any for a year or more. Just store it properly, Peter could tell you how. Plan a nice trip (dinner and a movie) with your sweetheart and you will win on every front.

Just a final thought.  ;D


Offline Jackitup

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2009, 12:17:09 AM »
Just to rub it in ;-)  I get 50# bags og Kyrol Hi Gluten flour from the Con Agra mill here in Hastings, MN for 15 bucks or so and it's 4 blocks from my house. I go pay in the office, they load it in my pickup at the dock, and I'm home 10-15 minutes later. Gotta love it. Thay also have a lot of other flours available but you have buy 50# at a time.
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline koloa101

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2009, 02:08:53 AM »

yea i know right! however if i want to play, i gotta pay.  :pizza: i didnt want to use a whole day driving to pick up flour. id rather much spend it on  rest and having fun with my 1 yr old daughter.  :) she sits in her high chair staring at me while i make a mess in the kitchen. it is pricey, but i figured this will be some pretty good pizza flour so i might as well go big and get the 50 pounder. about an hour away, there is a dealer that sells north dokata high gluten flour. it may be very similar and its half the price. maybe ill try that in a few months.

Did you see the price of that 50lb bag of flour.  :o  $39.95 plus shipping, which will be $20.00 or more. You could buy 2 bags and and not need any for a year or more. Just store it properly, Peter could tell you how. Plan a nice trip (dinner and a movie) with your sweetheart and you will win on every front.

Just a final thought.  ;D

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2009, 02:52:31 PM »
Have you told us how long you allow the dough to warm up out of the refrigerator before the bake? If not, how long do you allow it to warm up?

Glutenboy,

I guess you missed my last question, would you address that one. Plus I also would like to request that you tell us about your oven. What temperature are you baking at? Pete stated that he thought that you are at 600 degrees. Also how long are your bakes?

I performed the first bake at 550 degrees,with your oiling technique, and I saw just the starting of the color that you achieve. I could assume, if I could get to the 600 degree mark that I would see the same results as you achieve. I am continuing to experiment.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2009, 03:28:33 PM »
MWTC -

Sorry I failed to address your last question.  I had a cheap oven thermometer that went up to I think 550 and the numbers burned off leaving shiny metal.  I must assume therefore that I bake above 550.  My bakes run longer than you'd expect.  Probably around 7-9 minutes.  I go by perceived doneness rather than time.  Logic would dictate that a longer bake would lead to a dry, brittle crust, but that has not been my experience at all.  I get a nice foldable crust and rim thats crisp on the outside and tender on the inside.  Again I don't know if I hold the oil responsible for the coloration.  Even though the unoiled dough was giving me other aggravations, I was still achieving nice browning.  Let me know what your results are.  I'll keep my eyes open!  :o
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2009, 03:44:46 PM »
MWTC -
Sorry I failed to address your last question. 

Still didn't answer it.  ::)   :-D

Also, how about taking a photo of the underside of the pizza, so we can see the doneness that you are achieving.


So, you don't know the exact degree of your oven bake?



"Logic would dictate that a longer bake would lead to a dry, brittle crust, but that has not been my experience at all."

What I get is toughness at 550 degrees.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 04:06:35 PM by MWTC »

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2009, 03:58:30 PM »
whoops...  :-[  I probably let the dough rise out of the fridge from anywhere between 30-90 minutes depending how busy I am.  Usually I'm baking for friends and not timing things carefully.  I do know that there's a window beyond which the dough starts to look a bit overrisen, but usually a good smack and a careful stretch create a fine finished product.  Did I answer it this time? :D
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2009, 04:01:29 PM »
Thank-you.   ;D

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2009, 04:12:32 PM »
Oh, and next time I'll remember to include an upskirt...  >:D
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.


Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2009, 02:26:24 AM »
This was last nights pizza.

I cooked the pizza on the 2stone with the 600 degrees air temperature goal. I figured that if I could get the stone to 400 degrees the air temp would be around 600 degrees. Check out the picture....Its appears its going to take some trial and error to get this right. I took a little to long prepairing the pizza. Which wasn't that long, ten minutes. When it was ready, the stone was at 475 degrees. I figured, try anyway. Well, you can see that the leoparding is a little to dark. But the bottom was perfect. So I will need to experiment with turning down the flame at the time of the bake to get the desired color. The same color that you achieve, is appearing, so it will just take time to master the bake. Can you see the right color appearing? It is amazing what higher heat does to the quality of a pizza!!!

This pizza was the EVOO oiling. I could see a slight fried effect. This all needs more experimentation.


Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2009, 01:41:39 AM »
Here is the next experiment with the 2stone.

I baked this one at 475 degree stone temperature with a 10 minute warm up. When I place the pie into the oven I turned down the propane by 50%. It baked quite quickly. I think that the next experiment I should turn down the propane another 25%. Maybe slowing down the bake will allow the golden color to appear. It might not be possible with the 2stone.

Glutenboy, would you take a picture of the oven that you are using. It would be interesting to see the oven that is producing that excellent pie.

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2009, 05:12:13 PM »
MWTC -

Those pizzas look terrific.  Are you baking in a pan or on a stone?  You mentioned that the oil you used provided a frying effect.  If so, we're working differently.  By the time I take the dough from the container, the oil really is doing nothing more than preventing sticking.  By the time I flour and stretch it, It's not detectable on the surface in any way.  If it's giving you a sizzle, then you're doing your own thing completely... which by the way is great because your pies look delicious.  I'll try to snap a pic of the oven later today and post it.  It's an old oven.  I live in an apartment in Los Angeles, and the oven looks to be from a bygone era.  You'll see.

- GB

PS - I just looked at your post more carefully and saw that you're using a 2 stone.  I must assume then that there's no pan involved.  Please elaborate.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 05:14:22 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2009, 12:37:46 AM »
It sure is a work in progress.

As you can see from the photo that the reduction in oven temperature eliminated the leoparding. The browing that you are achieving is coming forth. But, with the color another element arrived. The lower temperature produced less tenderness, it was a little tougher than the last bake at 50% full propane. This one was about 25% propane. I think it might need a little oil and/or sugar to bring back the tenderness. Futher experimentation will reveal that.

Yes, these are baked on the stone alone. No pan or screen is being used.

This last pizza was just as you describe in your protocol.

The fried effect was on the first one that was slightly over cooked. What I did, which as you stated was completely different than what you are doing. I oiled the aged dough right out of the refrigerator and then allowed the 2 hour counter rise. Different elements to play with. I thought the oil was bringing forth the golden browning but now I realize it is your protocol and your oven/temperature. It sure would be nice to know the exact temperature of your oven bake.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 10:43:37 AM by MWTC »

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2009, 11:14:29 PM »
Glutenboy,

Would you do me a solid?

How about trying my dough in your oven.

I think it would be very interesting to see your results.

My Favorite Dough Recipe:

100% All Trumps
65% Water @ 68 degrees
1/2% IDY
2% Salt
2% Sugar
2% EVOO

Mix 2 min., 20 Min. Riposo,  5 Min. Knead

Ball it up, then into the Refrigerator.

48 Hour Minimum Cold Fermentation

Counter rise at least 1-1/2 hour. (I just made a pizza allowing it to rise in the baking pan for 4 hours and it was one of the best dough I have ever made.)

Thats it!!!

The above mentioned 4 hour counter rise pizza used a 14 day old dough from this recipe and it was Fantastic.

I would appreciate it if you would give this a try. I am extremely interested to see the results baked in your oven.

MWTC  :chef:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 10:47:30 AM by MWTC »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2009, 11:21:36 PM »
MWTC,

It might help Glutenboy to know the size of the pizza and how much dough is used to make that size pizza. Or, alternatively, a thickness factor.

Peter

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2009, 10:39:14 AM »
Peter,

I would rather Glutenboy just do it his way with My recipe and protocol.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2009, 10:47:03 AM »
MWTC,

That's fine but he may not know how much dough to make and how much dough to use to make a pizza. He could end up with a different skin thickness and a different result. But I will leave that up to you guys.

Peter


 

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