Author Topic: Tonight's Pie  (Read 81251 times)

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Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2009, 10:55:58 AM »
What I am looking for is for him to match this pizza with My dough. He will know how much dough to make and how much to use on this pizza. I want to see the effect of his oven on my dough as compared to this pizza.


Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2009, 01:02:08 AM »
Sorry,  MWTC.  I've been preoccupied.  I will get on that yummy project and post a pic of my oven ASAP.  As for the temp of my oven, I am, unfortunately, ill-equipped to get you a reading.  More soon.

PS -  Did you say 14 DAYS?!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 01:03:56 AM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2009, 12:22:33 PM »
Yes, 14 days. And it was still fantastic. At the 16 day point I saw the first spotting. I don't need the dough to last that long but is sure is nice.

Try the recipe and tell me what you experience.


Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2009, 01:48:42 PM »
This is a fantastic thread that I will be referring to often!

Glutenboy, your pizzas have me drooling.  Guess I should opted to actually eat lunch instead of reading!
Would you please be so kind as to post the info for your Detroit area source for the All Trumps?  I too am not too far and just have to give your recipe a go.
Thanks!
Hog

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2009, 02:24:29 PM »
The Detroit source for All Trumps is:

Miceli & OldField
12250 Delta Drive
Taylor, MI
734-946-4500
9am-3pm Cash and Carry

I think they sell it in 25 and 50 lb bags. Ask for the Green if you want the Un-Bleached, Non-bromated.

I don't think Glutenboy knows where this is since he lives in L.A.

MWTC  :chef:

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2009, 08:24:11 PM »
Oh, sorry about that MW.  Guess I was reading too fast on lunch break..
Just picked up an infra red thermometer from Harbor Freight in Clinton Township for $39 in the event you are looking for one, and having fun taking temps on everything in the house.  I just tried to take the cat's temp and found the best kitty toy yet - she goes bonkers chasing the laser!
Found out my new stone hits 630-640 on the oven floor too, which is even better news.
Thanks for the info!
Hog

Offline JConk007

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2009, 08:52:18 PM »
Glad you like the Harbor freight IR thermo http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7900.0.html I found em by me too some sy be leary Glad yous is working well 640 is great what kind of stone?
Thanks
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2009, 09:21:10 PM »
Not sure of brand as it is not new but never used, but sounds like the one Pete-zza has described as rectangular with feet on the bottom.  Hope to try some version of this on it soon.

Offline Jaysus

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2009, 01:17:41 PM »
I love this thread!


Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2009, 11:14:38 PM »
Check out last nights BLT Pizza.

The first photo was the Cheese and Bacon baked and the second photo was with the Mayonnaise, Lettuce and Tomato added.

This was the 2% Dough at 11 days old.

Offline BigMike

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2009, 08:31:03 AM »
Glutenboy,
Can you tell us about how your oven is configured.  I read about the broiler on the bottom (sounds similar to mine).  Do you put your quarry tiles on the floor of the oven?  Lowest rack?  Do you put additional tiles on a rack above the pizza to get more heat from the top?  How long do you heat the oven before getting the first pies in?  Do you set it to the highest temp or broil?  Do you ever need to finish in the broiler?  Thanks in advance.

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2009, 12:53:45 PM »
Big Mike --

Tiles on the lowest rack, oven set on broil, preheat for at least about an hour, no tiles above, and no finishing under the broiler; it just bakes well on the bottom rack.  I find, however, that every oven I use is different and requires a bit of trial and error to find the sweet spot.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 12:55:32 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2009, 10:06:27 AM »
Glutenboy, I just wanted to say that's an amazing looking work of art. Beautiful crust, THAT'S a pizza!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2009, 11:45:56 PM »
Thanks, NY Pizzastriver.  Sorry I've neglected this thread and your requests lately, but life gets in my way.  I made these 2 pies with a 9-day-old dough made with the formulation on page 1.  The pics aren't as pretty, but the pizza was great.  Best crust I've gotten to date.  Sour and crisp yet pliant.  MWTC:  I promise to give your formulation a shot in the very near future and to take a pic of my oven as soon as I clean it!
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2009, 01:30:43 AM »
Nice pie, I will give your formulation a try also as I did with MWTC's soon. Right now the 'kitchen is closed' for remodel at my house. I will surely need some kind of rehab treatment for pizza withdrawl if this thing takes too long???
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2009, 11:43:24 PM »
Thanks, NY Pizzastriver.  Sorry I've neglected this thread and your requests lately, but life gets in my way.  I made these 2 pies with a 9-day-old dough made with the formulation on page 1.  The pics aren't as pretty, but the pizza was great.  Best crust I've gotten to date.  Sour and crisp yet pliant.  MWTC:  I promise to give your formulation a shot in the very near future and to take a pic of my oven as soon as I clean it!

Not pretty? Your pizza's are incredible looking, just fabulous. No problem with the life thing, lol. 9 days, wow.
 :o
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2009, 11:59:00 PM »
Right now the 'kitchen is closed' for remodel at my house. I will surely need some kind of rehab treatment for pizza withdrawl if this thing takes too long???
Jon

Jon,
You do know that's a wide open door for me to recommend various sedatives. (joke)  ;D 
Instead I'll just say 'hang in there brother, you'll make it!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Offline Jackitup

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2009, 12:37:48 AM »
Jon,
You do know that's a wide open door for me to recommend various sedatives. (joke)  ;D 
Instead I'll just say 'hang in there brother, you'll make it!


That's allright, I have them allready, ambien is a wonder pill for sleeping. And if I need  something stronger I'm pretty good friends with the doc's I work with here in the PICU  ;)
Jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline JConk007

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2009, 08:33:42 AM »
Jon,
Trinity could recommend some micro wave alternatives ???
Just kidding 3 yrs ago I did my Kitchen to the studs  and more. Just add 50% to budget and 100% to time and you'll be fine
I would say your Thanksgiving will be a memorable one this year  :-D
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2009, 07:48:44 PM »
Well, I still have the grill in the back yard. Maybe toss a couple steaks on........
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2009, 11:28:44 AM »
Thanks for the kind words.

1) Vlap - All Trumps is a high-gluten flour put out by General Mills.  It's a bit hard to get, though if you poke around here, I'm sure you'll find sources.  I got mine from a GM rep I met.  It's the unbleached, unbromated variety.  (You can't get the bromated here in CA unless you bring it in from another state.)

2) The formulation I used for eight 300 (plus a gram or 2) gram dough balls is as follows:

All Trumps Flour -      1520 g - 100%
Water (room temp) -   928 g -  61.05632%
IDY -                        4.3 g -  .282895%   (measured as 1 teaspoon)
Sea Salt -                   38 g -   2.5%

Protocol-wise, I started with about half the flour and all the IDY in the Kitchen-Aid pro-500.  I added all the water and mixed with the spiral dough hook (and a little manual coaxing) until thoroughly combined.  Rest a couple of minutes.  Then I added about half the remaining flour and kept mixing (inspired by Varasano).   At this point it turns from batter to really wet dough and the hook...


GB,
Your crust is one of the great looking ones (love the pimples!) that doesn't get into the obscure foreign realm  of bacteria breeding and cultures. Though I know this would give me the NY pizza I strive for, the whole "I have been cooking with the same culture for 15 years" scares me. How does it keep growing? Do you feed it spinach so it stays nice and strong? All a mystery to me. So, let's get back to your dough!

Ever hand knead??? If so, lets say I were to half this formula for 4 balls. What would you recommend in time and protocol using the "quarter fold" method?
i.e.: Would you hand knead all 4 balls at once, then divide? Separate then knead individually, or just not try it without a mixer?
Thanks,
J

« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 11:30:31 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2009, 01:37:03 PM »
Wow, it's hard to recommend or not recommend things without having tried them.  Let's see what limited insight I can offer.  First, I think the mixer makes a difference, especially when you add the flour incrementally as I do.  I can't imagine hand-kneading a gloppy dough with a third of the flour missing, and even if I did, I don't think it would have the same impact on gluten development.  That's not to say that hand kneading couldn't give a fine result; the process would just be completely different.  As far as kneading after dividing, I'm not a fan.  Something I used to do when I was just getting started.  My two cents is do the kneading in bulk.  Then a bulk rise.  Then divide, shape, oil (if that's what you do) and refrigerate.  Once the dough balls are formed, the deed is done and it's time to let them relax and ferment so that when you take them out for the final counter rise (I give it at least 45 minutes at room temperature), the dough will stretch easily and evenly.  This advice is born of having made lots of mistakes and discoveries over the years.  It's not necessarily the only right answer, but it works for me.  Hope that was some help.  Any more questions feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 11:51:12 AM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2009, 03:44:54 PM »
GB, thanks man. Good thought. I think when I try your dough (soon) I'll probably do the ''batter'' with a whisk method with the first 1/3- 1/2 of the flour for a few minutes to "glutenize", so to speak. Then add 80% of the rest and do the heavy spoon until your arm falls off, that's been my method so far. (lol). Then hand knead the bulk ball, with a rest period as you and Varasano speaks of, until it feels right. I keep the remaining few grams of flour aside as when you hand knead, as I'm sure you know, it goes through a "keeps getting too sticky" period for the first 3-5 minutes, so the rest is to flour hands and board, it gets in there. I agree hand kneading all at once is the way. Best to get the whole mass from lumpy knotty mess to smooth tackiness all together. I give a few fold to each to shape each ball, but just 20 seconds or so.

Yours is definitely my next jump, when I get ready I might ask a couple Q's if unclear on protocol on re-read, so thanks much for offering the help.

So, did you cut your cleaning lock!? I'm really getting a sense of how the dough dries out by the time it browns when baking 5-6 mins at these low 550 temps. Well, dries out compared to what happens at higher temps anyway. I think going to 7-800 degrees is the next plan...also soon!

Then comes sourdough cultures, maybe. SD girl, and others, are telling me how much better it is. Aside from my questions about it above, I see threads about creating a "bacteria breeding facility''...
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8179.msg70425.html#msg70425
and say yeah suuuure, sign me up!!
 :-\
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 03:49:41 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2009, 09:30:08 AM »
I have 2 questions in reading this further. First let me retract the oven question, I found that info on page 1, sorry.  ::)

Peter had advised me to add sugar to the Lehmann recipe if it was going to rest in the fridge for over 2 days to basically feed the yeast. How can this dough make it 4-8 days without any sugar?

Also, I can't find all trumps, or any other flour aside from King A's unbleached bread, anywhere in 3 towns. So is it worth trying this with sifted King A's?

Thanks,
J.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 09:35:53 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2009, 09:55:05 AM »
J,

What you say about the Lehmann dough formulation is correct. However, there are ways of altering the chemistry and physics of dough making to produce a dough that can cold ferment for several days--even for weeks and without using any sugar in the dough. I developed my own ways of doing this, but others have developed their own ways that differ from mine. You will see examples of this by checking out the links in Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8152.msg70097.html#msg70097. In one instance, there was sugar used (by MWTC).

If you can't find a source of All Trumps, you may be able to use just bread flour or possibly bread flour that has been supplemented with vital wheat gluten to yield a blend that has the same protein content (14.2%) as the All Trumps. You might also want to know that Glutenboy himself used bread flour, specifically, Harvest King bread flour, to make the pizza shown at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4565.msg38409.html#msg38409. The Harvest King flour has since been replaced at the retail level by General Mills by the Better for Bread flour. That flour is widely available in supermarkets.

Peter