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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2009, 11:24:44 AM »
Ah yes. I see in your link with the Harvest flour he "degassed" after 2 days, then back in fridge for 2 more.

Quote
Gladware containers with no oil, and into the fridge.  They expanded in the fridge before the cold had a chance to slow them down.  2 days later I degassed the dough, pulled the doughballs tight, oiled them EXTREMELY LIGHTLY with evoo as well as their containers, and put them back in the cooler for 2 more days.  Started using them at 4 days old.

Seemingly the All Trumps didn't need this, as he said in this thread. So, would you say using King Arthur's would require degassing? OR would you say even with degassing it would be pretty much like my Lehmann's pies as I'm using the same flour again? I'm happy to degas if need be.

Oh, btw, ...how exactly does one degas dough?  :D
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2009, 11:51:40 AM »
J,

It is hard to say just from reading Glutenboy's posts how the King Arthur bread flour will compare with the Harvest King (Better for Bread) flour or the All Trumps high-gluten flour. Three different flours used to make doughs at three different times under different operating conditions can yield different results. However, being the punctilious sort who monitors and measures everything, if I were using the King Arthur bread flour with Glutenboy's dough formulation I would use the poppy seed trick as described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html to monitor the progress (expansion) of the dough. If it rose too much too soon, then I would evaluate whether to degas the dough and return it to the refrigerator.

Degassing can mean slightly different things to different people. For some, it might mean slamming the dough against a hard surface to expel the gases; for others, it might mean gently pressing the dough with the fingers to allow the gases to escape, possibly followed with some stretch and folding. If done far enough in advance of using such that the dough has a chance to recover, it might not matter all that much which method is used. However, I personally would use the gentler approach if the time before using is short.

Peter

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2009, 12:15:20 PM »
I am a kinder, gentler degasser.  I pull the dough ball sides down toward the bottom, expelling the air as I go until it is tight again, even passing it through the ring made by my thumb and finger to reshape it.  Then I seal the seam at the bottom by pinching.  Works well with the HK dough, bad idea with the AT.  Tip: If you plan to degas, don't oil the dough balls before refrigerating.  The oil keeps the dough from adhering to itself when you make the seam at the bottom.  Only oil it after the ball is shaped for its final refrigerator rest.   Another tip: I don't do any kneading at this stage.  I try to preserve the skin that has formed on the dough's outer surface by simply pulling it down evenly.  Yes, some of that outside becomes inside at the bottom, but no inside becomes outside -- if you follow me!!!  ::)  Finally, how will the KA flour respond compared to the other two?  I have no idea!  These discoveries are usually the product of bad decisions on my part.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 12:45:52 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #78 on: April 16, 2009, 07:21:02 PM »
After having admired Glutenboy's pizzas for so long, I decided to give Glutenboy's dough formulation a try. For my purposes, I scaled the recipe down to a single dough ball size, or around 302 grams for a 14" pizza. Since I don't have any All Trumps or other high-gluten flour on hand, I used King Arthur bread flour (KABF) supplemented with Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (VWG) to increase the protein content of the KABF from 12.7% to 14.2%, which is the protein content of the All Trumps high-gluten flour. I used November's Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ to calculate the amount of VWG I would need to create the final blend with a protein content of 14.2%. Since Glutenboy did not indicate what water temperature he used, I used water that came out of the refrigerator and warmed up at room temperature to around 56 degrees F as I was rounding up all of the ingredients to make the dough.

For purposes of coming up with a dough formulation to use, I relied on the ingredients and quantities given by Glutenboy in Reply 5 in this thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.msg66669.html#msg66669. Then, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I came up with the following dough formulation:

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Water (61.0526%):
IDY (0.19817%):
Salt (2.5%):
Total (163.75077%):
192.95 g  |  6.81 oz | 0.43 lbs
117.8 g  |  4.16 oz | 0.26 lbs
0.38 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.13 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
4.82 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.86 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
315.96 g | 11.14 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = N/A

* The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 187.58 g./6.62 oz. KABF and 5.37 g./0.19 oz. Hodgson Mill VWG (1.79 t.)
Note: For a single 14" pizza; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

I prepared the dough in accordance with Glutenboy's instructions. However, since my KitchenAid stand mixer has a C-hook, I had to intervene in the process from time to time, using my hands and a thin blade spatula, to help the dough mixing/kneading process along. The finished dough weight was 315 grams, which I trimmed back to 302 grams in accordance with Glutenboy's instructions, and the finished dough temperature was 72.5 degrees F. In preparation for placing the dough into my refrigerator and to monitor the expansion of the dough during the fermentation process, I placed two poppy seeds 1" apart at the center of the dough ball, in accordance with the method described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html. The dough ball was placed in a Pyrex glass bowl with a lid. The dough remained in the refrigerator for 8 days. After 2 days, according to the poppy seed spacing, the dough increased by 20%; after 3 days, 42.4%; after 5 days, 95.3%; after 6 days, 126%; after 7 days, 260%; and after 8 days, 297%. I mention these data points because they tell us why Glutenboy's dough can have such a long usable dough life. Simply stated, it is the small amount of yeast (0.19817%) that is used to make the dough, the low water temperature (at least in my case), and the small dough size (302 grams, or 10.65 oz.). It takes almost no time at all for such a small dough ball to cool down once placed into the refrigerator. In my case, after 8 days of cold fermentation, when I decided to use the dough, I found the dough to still have some elasticity as I opened up the dough ball to its final desired size of 14". As a result, I am certain that the dough ball could have lasted at least a few more days in the refrigerator.

I decided to use the dough to make a clam/bacon pizza. I had wanted to use fresh clams but was not able to locate a supply locally without having to drive into Dallas. So, I used a 10-oz. can of whole baby clams. I used the clam juices along with some white wine, extra virgin olive oil, and butter as the base of my sauce. I reduced the liquids until I had a thin sauce and added several diced cloves of garlic, the clams, freshly ground black pepper and a small amount of dried oregano. For the cheese, I used a blend of low-moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese, NY sharp white cheddar cheese, and Parmigiano-Reggiano Parmesan cheese. The mozzarella and cheddar cheeses were comminuted/diced in my Cuisinart food processor along with the Parmesan cheese and some more dried oregano. The final major topping, the bacon, was partially cooked and cut into good-sized pieces.

The pizza was baked on a pizza stone that had been preheated for an hour. In order to get a stone temperature of around 600 degrees F, which is the temperature that Glutenboy mentioned in this thread, I removed the lowest oven rack position from the oven and placed the stone on three pieces of bricks on the oven floor, which had the effect of bringing the stone closer to the bottom electric heating element. With this arrangement, the stone reached a temperature of close to 600 degrees F. The pizza was baked on the stone for about 6 minutes, following which I removed the pizza from the stone to the topmost oven rack position (without the broiler on) for about a minute more in order to get increased top crust browning.

The photos below show the finished pizza. Both the crust and the pizza itself were first rate. The crust was chewy and crispy but with a fairly soft center outside of the rim area. The crust had good color and taste.

Glutenboy's dough formulation has significant merit. However, as the dough expansion data indicates, the dough is unlikely to be usable after only a few days because of insufficient fermentation. One would have to use more yeast and warmer water to speed up the process.

Peter

EDIT (3/12/13): Corrected the Calculator link
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 07:12:06 PM by Pete-zza »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #79 on: April 16, 2009, 07:26:05 PM »
A couple more photos...

Peter

Offline JConk007

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #80 on: April 16, 2009, 09:31:50 PM »
That Pizza looks great Peter!
I am close to Conn. but never had a clam pizza (new haven), and I love clams. The sauce sound fantastic too!
really nice. Hope to try that one someday myself.
JOhn
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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #81 on: April 16, 2009, 11:48:57 PM »
Peter, this is a nice pie. I was thrown by the appearance until I read about the white wine clam sauce. Very inventive, and I love shrimp on pie, so why not clams.

I can't believe you don't have a decent fish market there, then again I can't get the right flour here, so...

Well done mate.

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2009, 11:03:39 AM »
I can't believe you don't have a decent fish market there

J,

At my local supermarket, which is a high-end store, I was told that I could order clams but they would be frozen and I would have to buy a several pound package. I would have to buy the entire package since they are not allowed to split packages. At around $8 a pound, that is more than I would want to use. There are no fish markets as such near me. In general, if I want really good seafood, I have to drive into Dallas.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #83 on: April 17, 2009, 12:21:21 PM »
Peter, that's too bad. I think of growing up on the Great South Bay where we'd go clamming on a friends dad's clam boat. You would get 200 little necks in an hour. The things we take for granted as a youth eh?

Strange looking boats, flat with a phone booth type stand up cabin. I can't locate many pics of them, perhaps boats of yesteryear, but I found this one covered for Christmas. Oddly it was taken on ... The Great South Bay! Ah the memories.
http://www.tsocktsarina.com/blog/images/2007/12/xmasclam.jpg -pic



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Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #84 on: April 17, 2009, 12:50:05 PM »
Peter -

Those pies look terrific!  I'm glad you like my formulation.  I do wonder what effect the flour substitution had on the apparent hydration (as opposed to the actual percentage) because if you'll look at my Harvest King recipe, I used around 65 percent to get the same dough-handling properties that I get with around 60 for the All Trumps.  (I still don't get that by the way!)  I will tell you that the water I use is from the tap and warm.  I haven't measured the temp, but I'm saying above room temp though not 100 degrees like you would use to activate ADY.  Then I do get a pretty good counter rise before balling and refrigerating.  Sounds a bit different than your procedure, but your way seems to have worked out quite well and may even extend refrigerator life to allow for more flavor development.  Even with my warmer H2O, I've made it to nine days.  I wonder how far you could have gone!  :chef:

- GB
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #85 on: April 17, 2009, 12:58:31 PM »
J,

I know you expressed interest in Glutenboy's dough recipe. Having attempted it, I see no reason why you can't practice the recipe using hand kneading. I used a combination of King Arthur bread flour (KABF) and vital wheat gluten (VWG) to get the same protein content as high-gluten flour but you should be able to use the KABF by itself, much as Glutenboy previously used the Harvest King (now Better for Bread) bread flour instead of high-gluten flour. One of the reasons I decided to try the Glutenboy recipe was to see if I could replicate his results in my particular oven, knowing full well that the same recipe will often turn out differently in the hands of different people. I concluded that achieving a stone temperature of around 600 degrees F is an important component of achieving good results with the recipe if the objective is to replicate Glutenboy's results. In fact, it occurred to me that one might be able to achieve a very good "elite" NY style pizza by using the same recipe as Glutenboy uses, or one similar to it using only flour, water, yeast and salt, combined with a suitably high stone temperature. The 302-gram dough ball weight I used (and Glutenboy apparently uses) translates to a thickness factor of 0.0692003 for a 14" pizza. That value falls within the NY "elite" range. A good test would be an 18" pizza based on that, or perhaps a slightly larger, thickness value.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #86 on: April 17, 2009, 01:28:06 PM »
Peter, you said a 302 gram ball for a 14", your formula below was for a single 14" pie. It was heavier but you said you trimmed it back to 302. So would you take that formula and multiply the ingredients by .857, as 12 divided by 14 is .857? (eg 192 grams of flour becomes 164 grams) Or would you make it as is and just weigh out 258 gram balls for a 12" as 302g x.857 is 258g ?

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):192.95 g 
Water (61.0526%):117.8 g
IDY (0.19817%):0.38 g
Salt (2.5%):4.82 g

   

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Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #87 on: April 17, 2009, 01:39:31 PM »
Oh, by the way, I was at a friends house and whipped up some dough by feel with a measuring cup and spoons because they wanted to make pizza in a few days and asked me to leave them a couple of dough balls.  With no mixer and only AP flour, I decided to try to develop the gluten as much as I could.  I only had a packet of rapid-rise yeast so I dissolved a spare (scant half tsp for 2 dough balls) in some warm water and let it sit for 10 min or so, then added the flour incrementally, stirring vigorously with a wooden spoon until I saw the web of gluten forming.  I added the salt before I was done adding flour.  I just kept adding flour, switching from stirring to kneading as the dough formed, until it felt like I thought it should.  Then I gave it a counter rise (the small amount of yeast kept things in check nicely), balled it, oiled it, bagged it in 2 ziplocks and refrigerated.  I don't know the final outcome, but the dough certainly felt right (smooth and extensible), so I'm anxious to follow up with my friend and hear about the final product.  I guess my point here is that I did it without a mixer and I think I was able to achieve a comparable result.  With the ingredients on hand, I don't know what the end result could have been, but it's an interesting experiment in just how forgiving the oil-free dough can be.

PS - I just noticed that PizzaStriver had posted again.  Sorry if I'm being oblivious to your guys' conversation.  I have little to contribute on the scaling/thickness factor front.  I'd just ask you, Peter!   ;D
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 01:44:06 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #88 on: April 17, 2009, 01:47:03 PM »
I'm glad you like my formulation.  I do wonder what effect the flour substitution had on the apparent hydration (as opposed to the actual percentage) because if you'll look at my Harvest King recipe, I used around 65 percent to get the same dough-handling properties that I get with around 60 for the All Trumps.  (I still don't get that by the way!)  I will tell you that the water I use is from the tap and warm.  I haven't measured the temp, but I'm saying above room temp though not 100 degrees like you would use to activate ADY.  Then I do get a pretty good counter rise before balling and refrigerating.  Sounds a bit different than your procedure, but your way seems to have worked out quite well and may even extend refrigerator life to allow for more flavor development.  Even with my warmer H2O, I've made it to nine days.  I wonder how far you could have gone!  :chef:

- GB

GB,

Sometimes I will try another member's dough recipe based on a beautiful photo made with a quality camera only to be disappointed by the results. But, that was not the case when I tried your recipe. The finished crust was very nicely balanced in terms of color, texture, chewiness, crispiness and softness and--because of the long fermentation time--flavor and aroma. I had a couple of reheated leftover slices for lunch today, along with a glass (well, maybe two) of the same wine (sauvignon blanc) I used to make the sauce for the clam/bacon pizza, and the crust maintained the same characteristics as the original. That is an important factor for me since I almost never eat an entire pizza at one sitting and I would prefer that the reheated slices be as good as the original slices. Part of the explanation is that the hydration of the dough is not excessive. As a result, the crust does not become soft, wet and floppy upon reheating, as I have found to be quite common when making pizzas from doughs with very high hydration (e.g., 70% or more).

The issue of hydration of different flours can be quite tricky. There are many factors (flour age, storage conditions, protein quality, humidity, etc.) that govern the hydration of flours but the method of preparing the dough can also be a factor. For example, I recently made a dough in which the instructions called for throwing everything into the mixer bowl of a stand mixer and mixing at a given speed. When I did that, the mixer tried to walk off of the counter. I knew that the hydration wasn't the reason because I had used the same hydration many times before. My practice is to add the flour gradually to the mixer bowl, which rarely taxes my stand mixer.

Using vital wheat gluten, semolina and other such ingredients along with a basic flour can also affect the hydration. Sometimes when using these ingredients, I find it necessary to adjust the hydration of the dough because those ingredients have somewhat different absorption characteristics than ordinary white flour. A simple way to deal with this is to just increase the hydration of the dough formulation up front by about 1%. That will usually be sufficient.

As I noted, I scaled your recipe down to a single dough ball. That small amount of dough will ferment differently than a large bulk amount of dough that is to be divided and scaled at some point into several dough balls. Water temperature will also affect the extent and rate of fermentation. If the water used is cold, for example, right out of the refrigerator, and the amount of yeast is also on the low side, it should be possible to get a window of usability that is quite long. The finished dough temperature may be lower than what is usually recommended but the dough will still work but not really be ready to use for a few or several days because of insufficient fermentation. I think I could have gotten at least a few more days out of the dough I made, maybe even a total of two weeks. It all comes down to using small amounts of yeast and achieving low dough temperatures during fermentation. Once someone masters these simple principles, you are in control, not the dough.

Peter

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #89 on: April 17, 2009, 02:11:27 PM »
Peter, you said a 302 gram ball for a 14", your formula below was for a single 14" pie. It was heavier but you said you trimmed it back to 302. So would you take that formula and multiply the ingredients by .857, as 12 divided by 14 is .857? (eg 192 grams of flour becomes 164 grams) Or would you make it as is and just weigh out 258 gram balls for a 12" as 302g x.857 is 258g ?

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):192.95 g  
Water (61.0526%):117.8 g
IDY (0.19817%):0.38 g
Salt (2.5%):4.82 g

J,

When I use one of the dough calculating tools, I almost always use a bowl residue compensation. I don't believe that Glutenboy uses such a compensation. But, since he indicated that a typical finished dough ball weight is around 300-302 grams, I simply trimmed the dough weight I got to 302 grams. If you are interested in making a 12" pizza rather than a 14" pizza, the easiest way to determine the quantities of ingredients necessary for the 12" size is to use the thickness factor (0.0692) in the expanded dough calculating tool along with a 12" size and the baker's percents as previously used (your approach cannot be used because the relationships aren't linear). For example, doing this with the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html yields the following:

KABF/VWG Blend (100%):
Water (61.0526%):
IDY (0.19817%):
Salt (2.5%):
Total (163.75077%):
138.88 g  |  4.9 oz | 0.31 lbs
84.79 g  |  2.99 oz | 0.19 lbs
0.28 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.09 tsp | 0.03 tbsp
3.47 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
227.42 g | 8.02 oz | 0.5 lbs | TF = 0.07093
Note: For a single 12" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.0692; bowl residue compensation = 2.5%

You will note that I used a bowl residue compensation of 2.5% in the above table. That is a value that I typically use for a hand kneaded dough because the dough losses using hand kneading tend to be higher than when using a machine. Also, if using VWG with the KABF, you will have to calculate the amount of VWG you will need to achieve the desired overall protein content (14%) of the flour/VWG blend. I use November's Mixed Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ to do these kinds of calculations. Of course, you can use the KABF all by itself, as previously noted.

Peter

EDIT (3/4/13): Replaced Calculator link with the current link.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 07:34:44 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #90 on: April 17, 2009, 02:33:10 PM »
OK! Thanks for the reconfig. Peter. As this takes days to  rest I'll do a 3 ball batch now, so the above x3.
It's interesting this does need sugar to sit days and days like Lehmann's does, I assume it's the low yeast that makes that the case. .27 teaspoon for 3 balls is low indeed. I also whisk the batter and sift the flour, so all I can do is hope the two increase the gluten of KABF enough to make it good!

« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 02:36:00 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #91 on: April 17, 2009, 02:50:35 PM »
J,

All I had to do to get the quantities of ingredients for three dough balls was to change one entry in the expanded dough calculating tool:

Flour (100%):
Water (61.0526%):
IDY (0.19817%):
Salt (2.5%):
Total (163.75077%):
Single Ball:
416.65 g  |  14.7 oz | 0.92 lbs
254.38 g  |  8.97 oz | 0.56 lbs
0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
10.42 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
682.27 g | 24.07 oz | 1.5 lbs | TF = 0.07093
227.42 g | 8.02 oz | 0.5 lbs

Peter


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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #92 on: April 17, 2009, 02:54:43 PM »
It's interesting this does need sugar to sit days and days like Lehmann's does, I assume it's the low yeast that makes that the case.

J,

That is correct, along with using low dough temperatures. There is less yeast to consume the natural sugars extracted from the flour during fermentation, leaving more residual sugar for crust coloration at the time of baking. The Lehmann recipe is intended for commercial use where operators aren't interested in waiting a week or more to use the dough.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #93 on: April 17, 2009, 02:57:36 PM »
I mixed the salt and cold cold spring water, then sifted my 416 gs of flour. Instead of sifting yeast this time I sprinkled it in the flour to ensure no loss in the sifter. I Whisked 1/2 the flour/yeast combo heavily, completely smooth, then added 1/2 the remaining flour and whisked more. This was a tough 2-3 minute whisk as it's between batter and balling, but I want to get as much gluten up as I can, smooth and webbing at this point. My whisk isn't very happy, but I ignore its pleas for mercy. Now I'm letting it sit, call it an auto-rest or a 'catching of ones breath'. It's covered and resting but I'm not waiting 20 minutes, just enough to rest it and me. I'll let you know how hand kneading went soon...

And yes, I see your x3 matches mine, I got something right!
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline MWTC

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2009, 03:35:53 PM »
Glutenboy,

I guess you forgot to give my formulation a try.   :'(

MWTC  :chef:

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2009, 05:08:47 PM »
MWTC -

I have not forsaken you.  The fact is that except for that impromptu dough I made at my friends house, I have not cooked a pizza since the last pics I posted.  I will do it.  I swear by Grepthar's Hammer.  ???

- GB
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2009, 05:54:15 PM »
Peter, and GB, this dough hand kneads beautifully. I recommended it for all hand kneaders. I didn't leave any on the side for additional use, as I forgot to, I dumped it all in and got lucky. The spoon stage was short and sticky, so right to the board for the work. Sticky as it was all I had to do was flour my hands and the board once. It never needed more flour, stayed very nice and pulled, folded and pressed great. After 10 mins it still had that slight lumpy thing happening though, so I did the magic trick. I covered it, and 5 minutes later smooth as silk. I have no idea why this happens, but leave a lumpy dough alone for 5 minutes and it's like a baby's you know what. Then 2-3 more minutes of kneading and done.

I started with cold water as opposed to room temp as I was hand kneading, and more importantly I whisked the water/salt and batter a lot. Seems this would warm it up, and it did. I ask your thoughts on the rise by site, please see b4 and after pics below, but it was actually more that I expected based on the low yeast. After the 2 hr rise it handled like a dream, smooth and easy to work. I ended up with three 215 gram balls... now well oiled, contained and sleeping in the fridge.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 06:19:19 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #97 on: April 17, 2009, 06:43:59 PM »
After 10 mins it still had that slight lumpy thing happening though, so I did the magic trick. I covered it, and 5 minutes later smooth as silk. I have no idea why this happens, but leave a lumpy dough alone for 5 minutes and it's like a baby's you know what.

J,

During autolyse and similar rest periods, there are proteolytic enzymes in the dough that attack the gluten structure and softens it. You can read more about the phenomenon, and others as well, at Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2632.msg22856.html#msg22856.

Peter

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #98 on: April 17, 2009, 07:05:04 PM »
Wow
"autolyse" means self-destruction," and that's actually good. Great read, I learned a lot there.

Do you think I was right leaving water cold as I was hand kneading, thus warming myself? My fear was too warm would make the yeast react fast and not allow the 5-8 day rest.
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Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2009, 07:14:51 PM »
If you used the same percentage of yeast I do, then I think your warming fears are unfounded.  I use warm water and get a good counter rise before refrigerating, and I am still good at 8 days.  :chef:
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.