Author Topic: Tonight's Pie  (Read 81180 times)

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Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2010, 09:30:06 PM »
Yeah, the crust drew a lot of comments re taste and texture.  The long fermentation definitely lends a depth of flavor.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.


Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #151 on: January 11, 2010, 01:25:24 AM »
Here's one more shot of the white pie bubbling in the oven.  Mmmmmm!!!  :chef:
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #152 on: January 11, 2010, 03:31:42 AM »
Here's some pics from tonight.  This time the oven's mine and the dough is at 7 days.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #153 on: January 11, 2010, 03:33:55 AM »
And some more...
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 04:02:19 AM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

brayshaw

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #154 on: January 11, 2010, 08:15:56 AM »
Glutenboy, those look incredible buddy!!! wow!

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #155 on: January 11, 2010, 12:44:43 PM »
Thanks.  I just discovered the macro setting on my camera!  ;D
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline scottm

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #156 on: January 21, 2010, 02:34:54 PM »
I've been lurking on this site for just shy of a month and have made a few pizzas with pretty good success. I must admit, some of the pizzas in this thread are the best i've ever seen and i can only imagine how yummy they must be!

Scott

Offline Pizza!!

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #157 on: January 25, 2010, 08:32:52 PM »
Thanks.  I just discovered the macro setting on my camera!  ;D

Macro FTW!

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #158 on: January 31, 2010, 05:08:44 PM »
I've been lurking on this site for just shy of a month and have made a few pizzas with pretty good success. I must admit, some of the pizzas in this thread are the best i've ever seen and i can only imagine how yummy they must be!

Well welcome, and right you are. Even at 3-4 days it's superior to most home oven formulas.

GB, as I said here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10021.msg87604.html#msg87604 I made that as is for 15, about 350g balls in the end, and it did stretch to 15 fine...once 00 was no longer used.  :P Back to basics, King Arthur's unbleached.

I also decided that I would use a bunch of toppings on a great crust with great cheese and sauce. (read around, you'll get it) So after 4 days I did a "Meat Lovers & Garlic" special. Proper cooked sauce, heavier garlic for a change. Fresh loaf mozzarella, Boar's Head Genoa salami, Boar's Head ham, pepperoni, ground sweet Italian sausage cooked in aforementioned sauce, fresh garlic, fresh basil. Great pie, nice to be back.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 05:14:16 PM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1


Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #159 on: January 31, 2010, 11:15:37 PM »
Fantastic!  The corincione looks lighter than air.
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #160 on: February 06, 2010, 12:58:34 AM »
Glutenboy, if you don't mind me asking, at what temperature/time/place in the oven did you cook these pies. They look wonderful.

Think it's achievable with an electric oven? Or with AP flour instead of bread?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 05:08:10 PM by hotsawce »

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #161 on: February 06, 2010, 07:32:49 PM »
Hotsawce -

I have a gas oven with the broiler underneath so I can just crank it up to broil and basically the oven just stays on and keeps heating.  The tiles go on the rack in the lowest position and in my oven, this setup works beautifully.  Every oven is different, so as far as rack position, you'll have to find the sweet spot.  If you have an older electric oven controlled completely by dials, you're in luck.  Set the cooking dial to BAKE and the temperature dial to BROIL.  I have used this to great effect at friends houses and gotten some beautiful char.  If you have a newer digital electric oven, you'll have a tougher time tricking it into giving you that dangerous temperature we need.  I hear they have a calibration feature which will allow you to coax out a few extra degrees, but I've never tried.  There are also many pyromaniacs on the board who have filed the lock off of their oven door so that they can cook on the CLEAN cycle.  Never tried that either, but I'm certainly not above doing it if the pizza in my head told me to.  I've never gotten a temperature reading.  I bought one of those dial oven thermometers once, but the numbers burned off so I assume it was pretty hot.  Two words of advice.  First, preheat the stone or tiles for at least an hour.  Second, don't assume the bottom rack is the sweet spot.  I've used home electric ovens where the lowest rack burned the bottom of the pizza black by the time the top cooked.  In that oven, second position from lowest was ideal.  Trial and error is what it's all about.  Now go burn your house down.   ;D

- GB

ps - I'd go with bread flour myself, because higher protein content seems to improve coloration, but what the hell.  Make a batch with each and compare.  My greatest discoveries have usually been accidents.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 07:36:26 PM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #162 on: February 06, 2010, 08:53:21 PM »
Unfortunately, my oven died right as I was trying the "under the broiler" method. Didn't even get the pizza onto the stone  :'(

On the bright side, I'll be getting a new oven very shortly, and it'll likely be electric, so I'll be messing with the ideal spot to cook the pie. I just hope they come out half as good looking as the first pie in the thread!

   After I make a few NY style pizzas, I'll probably want to figure out the "under the broiler" method again.

Thanks for the information...can't wait to try it all!

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #163 on: February 07, 2010, 01:10:52 AM »
One more question; do you ever punch down the dough or do anything once you've put it in a container, sealed it, and stuck it in the fridge?

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #164 on: February 07, 2010, 11:51:25 AM »
...do you ever punch down the dough or do anything once you've put it in a container, sealed it, and stuck it in the fridge?

I'll field this one GB, nope. This doesn't rise much, even with the 2 hr room temp rest before balling. Very low yeast and all. You just do the bulk rise in oiled covered bowl, divide, a couple hand kneads to each. Then ball, oil everything, and put to sleep.

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #165 on: February 07, 2010, 02:47:17 PM »
Thanks, NYPS.   ;D
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #166 on: February 07, 2010, 10:27:21 PM »
Okay, guys. I think I'm going to make the dough tomorrow so it'll be ready by the time my oven is fixed.

I don't have a kitchen scale or measuring spoons, so I'm going to be ball-parking this.

I'm looking to make 2 dough balls, so for the sake of ease I think I'll be using

3 cups flour (about 360 grams)
1 cup water (236 grams)
Salt: ?
IDY: .18 to .19%

I "think" that puts me between 61 to 65% hydration, and I think I'll be getting about 300 gram dough balls...maybe a little more so I might take off a little chunk of dough and then split the remainder in half.

1. First and foremost, impressions of this? Think it'll be okay?

2. Secondly, how should I measure out the proper amount of yeast, and can anyone give me an estimated yeast amount for that percentage (grams, ounces, teaspoons)? I imagine this will be the hardest part to get right. Also, a recommended amount of salt would be helpful.

3. Finally, how do you all store your yeast, especially after a package is open. I bought a thing of Redstar quick rise IDY and I'm pretty sure the pouches are about 7 grams. I had 2 unopen ones sitting on the counter for about a day, but then I put them in the fridge. Is this okay? Also, how should I store after I open a package?

  - Also, I should be bulk fermenting the dough, correct? How would you mix this if you're hand kneading/mixing? Should I do frequent autolyse and resting periods? Any pictures of what the dough should like around the 8 day mark would be great, too.

Any help would be appreciated...I'm looking to get those awesome blisters and flavor!

PS. What mozz did you use on those pies, gluten boy?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 10:42:30 PM by hotsawce »


Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #167 on: February 07, 2010, 11:10:14 PM »
Hotsawce -

3 cups of flour sounds a bit high for starters to me if you're at 1 cup water.  I'd start with 2.5 cups and add more if needed.  The dough shouldn't be too too manageable.  A bit sticky is good.  Second, with that much flour, if you're using IDY, I'd stay around 1/4 tsp.  ADY maybe 1/3 to half tsp.  The cheese is Belgioso cryopack fresh Mozz. log from Costco.  Also a bit of grated reggiano and pecorino romano.  Keep me posted, my friend.

- GB
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #168 on: February 07, 2010, 11:28:38 PM »
You sure about the 2.5 cups? I just did the math, and using AP flour at about 120 grams a cup puts the hydration at 79% to 1 cup of water (about 236 grams).

As for the IDY, that's about .5 to .6 grams, right?

Offline Glutenboy

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #169 on: February 08, 2010, 01:25:58 AM »
Just speaking from personal experience.  Volume measurements are iffy at best, and even with a scale you can't be a slave to the numbers if the dough doesn't feel right.  Experience tells me there's no way that 2.5 cups of flour to 1 cup water has given me a 79%-hydration dough, but it could be due to the way I measure flour in a cup.  You can always add more flour if what you get is too wet.  If you start off with more and it's too dry, you will then need to add more water which will simply mean more dough.  I don't know how much pizza you've made, but the first few are going to be a learning experience no matter how much study prep you do.  Percentages vary with ingredients (like type of flour etc.), and there's no substitute for knowing what you want when you see and feel it.  I have a scale as well as calibrated cups and spoons, and still I wind up tweaking the hydration most of the time to get what I want.  Don't get me wrong; accurate measurements are vital.  You just can't always trust the numbers to the point of ignoring what's going on in the mixing bowl.  The two greatest sources of knowledge for me have been 1) This forum, and 2) My mistakes.  Don't worry too much.  It's always edible.  As far as the yeast goes, there's a volume/weight conversion table here: http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm.  Flour's cheap.  If you have a particular doubt, resolve it with a side-by-side test.  Anyway, enough out of me.  You'll do great!   :chef:
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 02:17:44 AM by Glutenboy »
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #170 on: February 08, 2010, 01:04:43 PM »
hotsawce,

I don't want to rain on your parade but I don't think you should be using 65% hydration. If you want to make two roughly 300 gram dough balls, I would use Glutenboy's baker's percents in the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. The option you would use is the Dough Weight option. I would also buy or borrow a set of standard measuring spoons. Trying to guess at quantities of yeast and salt with ordinary teaspoons is problematic at best. If you guess wrong, your experiment can end up as a failure or your dough may not make it out to eight days. You want to avoid or minimize as much as possible the things that can go wrong.

Can you tell us what kind and brand of flour you are using? If it is in the pull-down menu at the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/, you should be able to convert the weight quantity for the flour from the expanded dough calculating tool into a volume measurement based on how you measure out flour (e.g., "Textbook" method, "Medium", etc.). If you need help with either tool, let me know.

With respect to yeast storage, I store all of my yeasts in the freezer, whether the packet is opened or not. If you know that you are going to use the yeast in a short period of time, for example, within a few days, it can be stored in the refrigerator compartment of your refrigerator.

On the matter of hand kneading, you might want to follow Glutenboy's regimen. However, in your case, you should use whatever you have on hand as a substitute for a stand mixer, such as a bowl, a sturdy mixing spoon, a whisk, spatula, a bench knife, etc. Glutenboy describes his mixing regimen at Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.msg66669.html#msg66669.

Peter


Offline hotsawce

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #171 on: February 08, 2010, 08:18:02 PM »
I am using King Aruthur AP Unbleached.

Using that calculator and Glutenboy's percents, this is what I came up with.

Flour (100%):    366.59 g  |  12.93 oz | 0.81 lbs
Water (61%):    223.62 g  |  7.89 oz | 0.49 lbs
IDY (.17%):    0.62 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
Salt (2.5%):    9.16 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.91 tsp | 0.64 tbsp
Total (163.67%):   600 g | 21.16 oz | 1.32 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs

For measurement, I used the "textbook method," where you stir the flour to loosen it and then lift it into the measuring cup by the spoonful and level it off.

According to the calculator, flour came out to 2 and 3/4 cups with 2 tbsp. and 3 tsp.
Water came out to 3/4 cups with 3 tbsp and .37 tsp.
Salt came out to 1.91 tsp

Is all good?

For the yeast, should I just dump it in a ziploc bag and keep it in the freezer like that? Also, does it need to come to room temperature before I use it?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 08:47:46 PM by hotsawce »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #172 on: February 08, 2010, 09:11:06 PM »
hotsawce,

You did well :chef:. I am proud of you. The only thing I would change is to use a bowl residue compensation of 3% to compensate for the fact that you will be using hand kneading and tools to which some of the dough is bound to stick. Using 3% bowl residue compensation gives us the following:

Flour (100%):
Water (61%):
IDY (0.17%):
Salt (2.5%):
Total (163.67%):
Single Ball:
377.59 g  |  13.32 oz | 0.83 lbs
230.33 g  |  8.12 oz | 0.51 lbs
0.64 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.21 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
9.44 g | 0.33 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.69 tsp | 0.56 tbsp
618 g | 21.8 oz | 1.36 lbs | TF = N/A
309 g | 10.9 oz | 0.68 lbs
Note: Bowl residue compensation = 3%

Using the Textbook method of flour measurement, the weight of flour in the above dough formulation, 377.59 grams, translates to 3 cups + a bit less than one teaspoon. The weight of water in the above formulation, 230.33 grams, translates to 3/4 cup + 3 T. + a bit less than 2 t. The flour and water volume measurement values may not be 100% accurate and a guarantee of success, because volume measurements are not precise even under the best of circumstances, but I think you will be closer than just guessing.

You will also get somewhat different results using the King Arthur all-purpose flour than using the high-gluten and bread flours that Glutenboy has used. That might require some adjustment in future iterations. For example, to track Glutenboy's dough formulation more closely, you might lower the hydration to about 59%. You might also switch to a bread flour in a future iteration, or to a high-gluten flour if you can find a source of that flour. The bread flour and high-gluten flour will have a longer fermentation tolerance. With the all-purpose flour, you may not make it out to eight days, even with the small amount of yeast. So you will want to monitor the development of your dough during its fermentation.

I forgot to mention before but I would do the division after the bulk fermentation of a few hours, just as Glutenboy describes in Reply 5 that I previously referenced. Of course, if he altered his methodology maybe he can update you on that.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Peter

« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 09:44:43 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #173 on: February 08, 2010, 09:21:07 PM »
For the yeast, should I just dump it in a ziploc bag and keep it in the freezer like that? Also, does it need to come to room temperature before I use it?

hotsawce,

When I use packets of unused yeast, I just freeze them unopened. If I open a packet and don't use all of the yeast, I just tightly fold the top of the packet over and hold the packet closed with a rubber band wrapped around the packet. Or I just tape the packets shut. I use packets of both IDY and ADY so keeping the yeast in their packets avoids confusion and possible mistakes. When I use a large one-pound bag of yeast, I fold the bag shut and keep it in a sealed plastic container in my freezer.

Opinions differ on whether one should let the yeast warm up before using. I don't think that it makes a difference from what I can tell. I usually just take the yeast out of the freezer as I am getting ready to make the dough and measure out the amount of yeast I am planning to use. It will warm up quickly and be ready when you are.

Peter

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: Tonight's Pie
« Reply #174 on: February 09, 2010, 09:51:55 AM »
When crust looks that good, you almost don't care how it tastes.


 

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