Author Topic: Friday Night New York Style... [PICS] (Read 4573 times)

snowdy · « **on:** January 21, 2005, 03:20:35 AM »

Hi guys,

Tomorrow night i'm giving a new york style pizza a try. These will be the first pizzas i've made since joining this forum, i'm no pro so any advice you can throw my way is appreciated.... ill be posting tons of pics and questions.

I've been reading a ton and am trying to step it up... i had another post about my pizza dough always tasting too much like all purpose flour, i finally got some high gluten stuff so this should be cool.

I made 2 NY Style dough balls that are sitting in my fridge right now and will be baking them both tomorrow night.

NY STYLE PIZZA #1:
I started with the New York Style crust recipe from the Pizza Making home page:
3½ cups (16 ounces) high-gluten flour
9 ounces warm water
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 teaspoon instant yeast
¾ teaspoon salt

NY STYLE PIZZA #2
I'm using the one Pete-zza posted here:
http://forum.pizzamaking.com/index.php?topic=576.0

The Tom Lehmann New York Style
2½ cups (16 ounces) high-gluten flour
1 cup warm water
1 1/2 teaspoon instant yeast
¾ teaspoon salt
3/4 tsp olive oil

The dough on this seemed nice and soft and easy to work with.

-------
I'll post all the results and pictures here on this thread so if you're interested in following along feel free to join in

I got a huge bag of some high-gluten flour at the local restaraunt supply place here in Costa Mesa, CA called La Romanella High Gluten Flour. I've never seen it posted here but we'll see how it works.

This will be the first pizza ive made using a stone, ive had a deep dish pan we got awhile back that i've used for my first 20 or so (pre pizza making forum) pizzas. This should be interesting.

I've read what some of you say about better ingredients so this time i got some higher quality stuff.
- Whole Milk mozzarella cheese (some wisconsin dairy brand i had the deli guy cut off a block so i can shred)
- Margherita Brand Pepperoni (they were in sticks, had the deli guy double cut them with his machine)
- Fresh Mozzarella (to mix in some chunks with the whole milk stuff)
- Sugo di Pomidoro Brand San Marzano Sauce (sauce ingredients: san marzono tomatoes, fresh onions, tomato puree, imported italian olive oil, sugar, garlic, salt, parsley flakes, pepper) never heard of this brand but looks and tastes awesome.
- Fresh chopped garlic & basil

Here's a pic of the pepperoni i bought and had sliced:
(http://www.shopsofos.com/cartpict/margherita.jpg)

Can't wait to see how everything turns out.

I'll be posting more this weekend.

stay tuned....

Snowdy

canadave · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2005, 05:19:18 AM »

I'll be very interested to see and hear how it goes, snowdy

Post plenty of pics!

Pete-zza · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:20:20 AM »

Snowdy,

I notice that in using the Lehmann recipe you indicate 16 oz. of flour, which is more than called for in the recipe. The other ingredients appear to be the same as the posted recipe. Which amount of flour did you use?

FYI, when I convert weights to volume for the recipes I post, I use a tablespoon and scoop the weighed flour into measuring cups used to weigh dry ingredients. I level off the top of the measuring cup with a straight edge (like the flat edge of a knife). Since you almost never get exact measurements doing this you have to estimate a little. That's one of the biggest reasons I recommend that serious pizza makers invest in a scale, and preferably a digital scale because of its much greater accuracy (spring loaded scales are OK in a pinch or if you can't afford a digital scale but they produce inconsistent results).

Good luck with your pizzas. With the amount of dough you have produced (if you used 16 oz. of flour) will you use a screen along with the stone or is the stone big enough to handle large size pizzas?

BTW, the Margherita pepperoni is a nice and spicy product. It tends to have a slightly smaller cross section (smaller diameter) than other pepperoni products so you may want to watch the bake temperature so that the slices don't overcook.

Peter

snowdy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2005, 01:38:49 PM »

Hey Peter

I used 2 1/2 cups of flour on the Lehmann recipe. I only have the pizza stone.. do you think i should cut a little dough away from the ball before making the pizza?

Also, the pizzamaking.com ny style recipe that called for 3 1/2 cups seemed pretty big to me but didnt say how big of a pizza its supposed to make. I might cut some dough away from that too... or maybe just stretch it out to pizza stone diameter and have a thicker crust.

Let me know what you think.

snowdy · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2005, 01:39:55 PM »

correction, i didnt use 16 oz... i used 2 1/2 cups... i accidentally typed 16oz on there

The Tom Lehmann New York Style
2½ cups (11.80 ounces) high-gluten flour
1 cup warm water
1 1/2 teaspoon instant yeast
¾ teaspoon salt
3/4 tsp olive oil

should be good to go

dinks · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2005, 02:44:36 PM »

SNOWDY:
Good Afternoon. I would like to mention to you that HI-GLUTEN flour (14% Protein) weighs 5.5 oz per cup or 13.75 oz in your recipe.
Snoody, I hope you do not mind my asking you this

. Why do you use warm water in your pizza mixing technique if we are using instant yeast???. You should be considering using water that measures approx. 65 degrees. Simply because there is such a matter of friction being induced when mixing. that means heat. It is a well settled fact that optimum fermentation is at 78 to 82 degrees. If you would like have that temp. after mixing try colder water rather than warm water. I am sure you know that if the dough concoction reaches 90 degrees at completion of mixing you can throw out this dough due to the up-heavel of the enzymes that cotrol the acidity in the chemical make-up of the flour. I hope this helps in our quest to arrive at the best pizza-making knowledge that we all are striving for. Have a nice my friend.
~DINKS..

snowdy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2005, 02:53:26 PM »

about the warm water... i was just following directions.

Also, at the supermarkets here i couldnt find any "instant yeast" only the fleishmann's (spelling) rapid rise. On the package it said you could make instant yeast recipes by mixing it with dry ingredients and heating the liquid to 120-130 degrees so that's what i did. Also you can use the same package to do the other method of letting it dissolve first in hot water . This may not be the best yeast to use (not sure) but its all i can get here

I'll let you know how the dough comes out on each pizza.

dinks · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2005, 03:00:28 PM »

SNOWDY:
Thank-you for the quick reply. That is the same yeast that I use. You simply mix it in the flour... add water & mix. I understand you wanting to just followi directions. No recipe is written in stone. I feel if I am to be a friend & be helpful to others I must caution you NOT TO USE 130/140Degree water. You dough concoction will reach the 90 degree temp that will destroy the dough. Snoody, I wish you well.
~DINKS.

snowdy · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2005, 03:07:47 PM »

Dinks, thanks for the advice

On the first batch, the pizzamaking.com recipe, it said to let it mix on the hook for 15 minutes. When it was done the dough actually felt pretty cold. I hope thats normal. I put a thermometer in it and it sayd 65 degrees.

the lehmann recip i let mix for about 8 minutes or so.

Looking at the dough now in the fridge they have risen pretty good and look nice and smooth so hopefully the hot water didnt do too much damage.

Hopefully these turn out good, if not i have good info for next time

keep the advice coming! pics to follow!

dinks · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2005, 04:14:05 PM »

RANDY;
Thank-you for your concern. I neglected to mention to Snooty in my previous post when he said he uses 130/140 degree water is this, Yeast is killed at 138/140 degrees. Soooo, If the concoction fails to ferment it is simply because the yeast was murdered. Remember my friend, In mixing... friction occurs. We must realize that & allow for it. Randy have a nice day my friend.
~DINKS.

snowdy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2005, 06:18:24 PM »

3:20 PM PST ::: THE DOUGH IS OUT OF THE FRIDGE...

Okay, im kind of concerned about dough #1 (the NYC style from pizzamaking.com homepage)

I took it out of the fridge and it was nice and puffy and looked smooth but when i punched it down it felt hard as a rock. I actually needed to use some muscle to get it into a ball.

dough #2 on the other hand was super soft, very easy to punch down and when i punched it down i could feel and hear bubbles popping.

Im not sure what happened with #1... i followed the directions exactly.. maybe just a thicker crust recipe?

I'll keep the posts coming and pics will be posted at the end

Randy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:33:19 PM »

As you probadly know by now cold dough can be very stiff. When it warms in a couple hours it should be fine.

Randy

snowdy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2005, 12:21:47 AM »

Okay guys, here it goes. Sorry if this page takes long to load but it's all off my server so hopefully nobody will mind waiting a min or two

It's 9:05PM PST and i feel like my stomach is going to blow out... it was a good night. I'll start with pics from the beginning. You can see the list of my ingredients at the top.

Here were my ingredients:
(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/ingredients.jpg)

Here's the 2 pizzas side by side after coming out of the fridge. They had totally different appearances. The PizzaMaking.com dough was firm and stiff while the lehmann recipe was super soft and had tons of bubbles popping in the dough.
(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/fridge.jpg)

Here are the 2 dough balls side by side. Of course the pizzamaking.com is bigger since it used a lot more flour:
(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/balls.jpg)

THE TOM LEHMANN NYC STYLE PIZZA:
My initial impressions was that the lehmann dough would make a better pizza due to the softness and burpness (is that a word) of the dough. First i rolled out the Lehmann dough. It was hard to roll out, i got it out as far as i could before it started breaking apart in the middle. Mind you this is the first dough ive ever rolled out like this... i have been putting it in a pan and smashing it to the sides. But i finally got it out to about 12 or so inches and topped it:

(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/lehmann-top-small.jpg)

Click the link Below to see the above pic of the rolled out and topped Lehmann dough in 800X600 resolution:
http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/lehmann-top-big.jpg

Here is the Lehmann pizza out of the oven. The edge and all the way through the middle came out a little too thick for my taste. I might have been able to roll it out more and get it thinner but i couldnt stop it from tearing... the dough tasted great though!
(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/lehmann-done-small.jpg)

Click the link below to see the above pic of the Lehmann pizza coming out of the oven in 800X600 resolution:
http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/lehmann-done-big.jpg

PIZZAMAKING.COM's NYC STYLE PIZZA:
What i thought would make too big of a crust turned out to the be opposite. Actually this dough was easier to work with. I think it might be because it sat out another hour more than the Lehmann dough. It was a lot more pliable and easy to stretch out without tearing.

(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/pm_dough.jpg)

Since the first pizza turned out so thick and this recipe had an even bigger ball, i broke off a chunk to test out a calzone with (see later in this post). I was still able to roll out this dough to about 14" - 15" with no probs.

(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/pm-top-small.jpg)

Click the link below to see the above pic of the the rolled out and topped PizzaMaking.com NYC dough in 800X600 resolution:
http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/pm-top-big.jpg

Here is the PizzaMaking.com NYC pizza out of the oven, it came out a lot thinner and overral a better looking pie in my opinion:
(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/pm-done-small.jpg)

Click the link below to see the above pic of the PizzaMaking.com NYC pizza coming out of the oven in 800X600 resolution:
http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/pm-done-big.jpg

With the extra dough i cut off the dough ball, i rolled it out and made a calzone, ahhh it was tasty:
(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/calzone.jpg)

THE FINAL VERDICT:
I have to give the better recipe to the pizzamaking.com nyc style. However this might have a lot to do with the way i did the lehmann, afterall it was my first pizza using a stone and stretching it out this way etc. If i worked at it longer and maybe let it cool some more i probably could have gotten it to come out thin and bigger like the PizzaMaking.com crust. All the toppings were great. This brand of sauce was a bit bland and i wont use Thyme again on my pizza as it is a bit overpowering in my taste, but the pepperoni, cheese and flour were awesome. Finally i got some high gluten flour and experienced a homemade crust that didnt taste like flour.

Until Next Time!!!
(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/pm-final.jpg)

(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/slices.jpg)

(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/close.jpg)

Snowdy

Randy · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2005, 05:44:02 AM »

You are off to a great start.

Randy

Steve · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2005, 09:05:26 AM »

Excellent post!

canadave · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2005, 09:18:34 AM »

Looks great....and I think I just noticed a detail that can make your pizza even better!

I see you're using extra virgin olive oil. Rookie mistake

Extra virgin isn't really best for pizza--it's too strong a taste, and should be used only for things like salads and such. Use a regular or mild olive oil, or even some of that new zero trans fat Crisco, and I think you'll find the taste much improved

It's a valuable lesson I learned here from the wise veterans of this forum.

Cheers,
Dave

DKM · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2005, 09:40:34 AM »

Dude that is great. My life is just too busy

I need to make about 5 types this weekend just to catch up.

DKM

snowdy · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2005, 03:14:49 PM »

Quote from: canadave on January 22, 2005, 09:18:34 AM

Use a regular or mild olive oil, or even some of that new zero trans fat Crisco, and I think you'll find the taste much improved It's a valuable lesson I learned here from the wise veterans of this forum.

Awesome advice

I'll try that out next weekend! Are there any particular brands of regular or mild olive oil that are recommended? Or will any do the trick?

Thanks!

Steve · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2005, 03:27:55 PM »

My personal favorite is Carapelli mild (or light).

snowdy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2005, 03:55:38 PM »

Here is a side by side... my favorite NYC pizza was Lombardi's (we tried John's on Bleeker street and Grimaldi's too)

(http://www.dataheadz.com/pizzamaking/lombardis1.jpg)

Now all i need is a coal oven!

Maybe i'll install one in the kitchen hah!!!