Author Topic: Camaldoli: R.I.P.  (Read 2893 times)

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« on: January 28, 2009, 08:23:08 AM »
As a result of a tragic error made by the cleaning lady, my prized Camaldoli starter was dumped down the drain, enduring untold horrors in that microbial hell known as my septic tank. I can just hear the screams as my dear, pampered babies are being viciously devoured alive by gangs of filthy, evil bugs while I stand by helpless to save them (no, I'm not that fanatical, but the thought did cross my mind  >:D)

I could easily order and go through the whole activation again - not a big deal. But I have to admit that the Camaldoli, once my favorite, has been used less and less frequently in favor of the Ischia, which I am getting better at drawing out its best flavor. Maybe I'll hold off for a while.

Bill/SFNM




Offline jeff v

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 09:41:50 AM »
Oh the humanity!

Bill, do starters develop any diffeent or more complex flavors the longer you keep them or is there a finite amount of Camaldoliness? Basically would a new one even taste like what you had before?

Thanks,

Jeff
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 01:06:03 PM »

Bill, do starters develop any diffeent or more complex flavors the longer you keep them or is there a finite amount of Camaldoliness? Basically would a new one even taste like what you had before?


I think it is possible to tweak the maximum amount of desirable flavor out of any starter by playing with the following conditions:

- storage temp
- activation frequency
- flour type
- starter amount
- fermentation temps(s)
- fermentation time
- proofing temp(s)
- proofing time
- baking temp
- baking time

In terms of final flavor, I think these factors contribute to a number of considerations:

- acidity (I don't like much)
- flavors from other fermentation byproducts
- caramelization of sugars in the crust
- flavor of cooked flour

I have also come to the definite conclusion that there is a sweet spot in well all of the factors come together approaching the maximum enjoyment. I would have predicted that there is a point of diminishing returns, but have been forced to the conclusion that very small changes within the sweet spot can make big differences in the final flavor.

Bill/SFNM


Offline JConk007

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 01:31:17 PM »
Bill,
Sorry for your loss!
I feel your pain! I am just getting to the point of pizza making where I thought I would try to get some starter going Soo....
I ordered a few thing from Frankie G. for the WFO over the holidays and he included some of His San Fransisco based Starter. Got  it going nicely on hour 40 +- I was sleeping and woken up by a huge crash
downstairs?? Never put 2 and 2 together but when I went to get the bubbling beauty the next day there was but a few scraps of dried liquid on the floor  :'( The Chocolate lab strikes again >:D
Frankie is a cool guy! and says he will get me some more for round 2 which I will place under lock and key!
John
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline tdeane

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 04:55:36 PM »
As a result of a tragic error made by the cleaning lady, my prized Camaldoli starter was dumped down the drain, enduring untold horrors in that microbial hell known as my septic tank. I can just hear the screams as my dear, pampered babies are being viciously devoured alive by gangs of filthy, evil bugs while I stand by helpless to save them (no, I'm not that fanatical, but the thought did cross my mind  >:D)

I could easily order and go through the whole activation again - not a big deal. But I have to admit that the Camaldoli, once my favorite, has been used less and less frequently in favor of the Ischia, which I am getting better at drawing out its best flavor. Maybe I'll hold off for a while.

Bill/SFNM



That's a bummer, but i have to say that i am off the Camaldoli starter now. I have one I started my self which is superior to the Ischia and Camaldoli, imo. It is extremely active and has a beautiful, mild flavor. I was amazed, I didn't use my starter for over a month and it just sat in the cooler. I took it out, stirred it up, gave it a wash and a feeding. It was completely active within hours! I was very surprised. The Camaldoli would have taken days to get that active after sitting that long. I would be happy to send you some, if I can find the time to dry some.

Offline Pizza Rustica

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2009, 09:20:50 PM »
Tdeane,

Curious to know how you created your unique starter? If you don't mind discussing could you describe the starter its ingredients and your process. I am considering creating some unique starters of my own. I currently use the Ischia and enjoy it.
Russ

Offline s00da

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 01:32:34 PM »
I have just successfully activated my Ischia starter and tested with bread recipe in Ed's manual. It called for 235 ml of the starter, that's around 22% of total dough weight.

My first impression with the taste is that the sourness was just perfect. That means when using 5% or less for my pizza, I think I will have just a hint of sourness if any which is perfectly fine for my taste. My initial target for using the starters was the flavor actually and not the sourness. Makes sense? I'm making pizza after all  ;D

My disappointment is actually in the flavor department. I don't think I want such flavor in my pizza. I'm not saying it's bad but I think it's not suitable. Is the Ischia too advanced for my taste buds? Should I switch to Camaldoli?

s00da

Offline tdeane

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 03:22:54 PM »
Tdeane,

Curious to know how you created your unique starter? If you don't mind discussing could you describe the starter its ingredients and your process. I am considering creating some unique starters of my own. I currently use the Ischia and enjoy it.
I just put out a bowl of flour and water. I had activity after a couple of days so i started feeding it. It was fully active in less than a week.

Offline PizzaPolice

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 10:21:18 AM »
Bill:

I have some dried, ground up and hanging out in the freezer.  Say the word.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Camaldoli: R.I.P.
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 11:35:27 AM »
Thanks to all the generous offers to replace my lost Camaldoli. People on this board are the best!

For the time being I'm sticking with the Ischia (and my Austrian, French, & Russian for breads). The pies made from Ischia just keep getting better and better.

Bill/SFNM