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Offline JohnLondon

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Using a mixer for the first time
« on: January 31, 2009, 03:58:23 PM »
I have just purchased a food mixer.It is a Kenwood Prospero Compact. It has seven speeds and has a dough hook .
Having never used a food mixer before...and only made my first dough by hand a few weeks ago,could someone tell me how I should make the dough in it or post a link to a thread that describes the procedure perhaps??.
I have settled mainly on an American style pizza, although occasionally enjoy a NY pizza as well. Thank you


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2009, 06:33:57 PM »
JohnLondon,

If the mixer you have is the one shown at http://www.teddy-bears.uk.net/Cheap-Prospero+Compact+Kitchen+Machine-UK.html and with the operating manual at http://www.cookinstyle.co.uk/imagevariable/sku/pdf/KM265.pdf, it appears that you should be able to make pizza dough using that mixer. According to the manual, the maximum flour capacity of the mixer is 500 grams. That should allow you to make both a NY style and an American style dough. I estimate that the maximum dough capacity for your machine for making pizza dough is about 1400 grams.

There are basically two approaches that one can take in making pizza dough in a stand mixer, whether it is a basic one as used by home pizza makers or a much larger commercial one as used by professionals. Most professionals who use a planetary mixer, which is the type of mixer you have, start by putting the water in the mixer bowl. They then add the flour to the water in the mixer bowl together with the rest of the dry ingredients, such as salt, sugar, instant dry yeast (IDY), vital wheat gluten, etc. If fresh yeast is used, it can be added either to the water in the mixer bowl or just crumbled and added to the dry ingredients (the more common method). If active dry yeast (ADY) is used, it is rehydrated in a part of the formula water, at about 105 degrees F (about 41 degrees C), for about 10 minutes and then added to either the rest of the water or to the rest of the ingredients in the mixer bowl. If oil is used, it is typically added to either the water in the mixer bowl or to the dough after the initial mixing and before the final knead. The mixer speeds and duration of the initial knead and final knead are based on the dough formulation used (including the type of flour) and the amount and type of dough to be made.

The second method is to start by adding the formula water to the mixer bowl. The soluble ingredients like salt and sugar (or honey, if used) are then added to the water in the mixer bowl and stirred to dissolve. This insures that the salt and sugar are uniformly dispersed throughout the dough during mixing. If oil is used, it can be added either to the water in the mixer bowl (for more uniform dispersion) or to the dough after the initial mix. The treatment of yeast is as described above. That is, if fresh yeast is used, it can be crumbled either into the water or put on top of the rest of the ingredients; if IDY is used, it can be stirred uniformly into the flour; if ADY is used, it is rehydrated and added to either the rest of the formula water or to the rest of the ingredients in the mixer bowl.

My practice with my basic KichenAid stand mixer is to use both the flat beater attachment and the dough hook for most types of pizza doughs. I typically use the flat beater attachment to bring the dough ingredients together initially, which occurs as the dough clears the sides of the mixer bowl and aggregates around the flat beater. I use a low mixer speed (stir) for this purpose and I add the flour mix gradually to the mixer bowl to insure better hydration of the flour (I also usually sift the flour for improved hydration). This typically takes about a minute or two. The degree to which the aggregation of the dough occurs around the flat beater depends on the dough formulation and, more specifically, the hydration of the dough. A wet dough, for example, will collect around the flat beater more easily and more quickly than a dry dough and will leave less dry unmixed flour than a dry dough.

In looking at the operator's manual for your new stand mixer, I note that the beater attachment is of a different design than mine. My beater attachment looks like the one shown between the whisk and C-hook in the photo at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg33252.html#msg33252. However, I believe that you should be able to use your beater attachment as I do my flat beater attachment. After the dough collects around the flat beater, I switch to the C-hook, which is similar to the one your mixer has, and knead for a period of time based on the dough formulation used and the amount and type of dough to be made. I use a higher speed for this purpose (usually speed 2). A typical final knead is about 5-6 minutes for most dough types (e.g., NY and American) and dough batch sizes. Both when using the beater attachment and the C-hook, I frequently use a long handled flexible plastic spatula (or icing spreader) to help move ingredients into the path of the beater attachment and C-hook as the dough is being mixed and kneaded and to dislodge the dough if it attaches itself to the C-hook and just spins without being kneaded. The spatula I use is shown in the same photo referenced above (at the bottom) and is one of the most useful tools I have when making pizza dough in my stand mixer.

I might add that there are some people who just throw everything in the mixer bowl at one time and select one or more speeds to prepare the dough. That is certainly an option but it is not one that I personally use. My approach is like the second one discussed above and attempts to use principles that are science based. Maybe I wouldn't have to use that approach if my home stand mixer was as effective at making dough as a commercial mixer. But I know for a fact that it isn't.

When I write up my dough formulations, I usually give specific instructions on how to use a stand mixer, or any other method, to prepare the dough. So, to the extent that you try to make the doughs I have discussed, you should be able to use your stand mixer with my instructions, subject to the possible need to make adjustments to adapt the dough formulation to your particular brand and type of mixer.

Peter

 

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2009, 07:20:57 PM »
Thanks Peter, yes that is the mixer I have.Your help is apprecaited  :)

Offline IndyRob

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 07:39:37 PM »
I'm glad to see the Kenwood mixers are still out there (at least in the UK, as they appear to have retreated from the US market).  Some years ago my wife wanted a stand mixer (KitchenAid) for her birthday.  While shopping for it I noticed a comparable Kenwood model that had all the bells and whistles for about $100 less.  I think she might have been slightly disappointed that it wasn't a genuine KitchenAid, but later, I wound up being the house cook and really did like it.  But when we eventually remodeled our kitchen with a lot of black and stainless steel appliances, the white plastic Kenwood was destined to be replaced by a new black and stainless KitchenAid.  The Kenwood went into a cupboard.

But now it's and back sits alongside the KitchenAid.  It's actually more powerful and stable than the KitchenAid.  But what I really like about it is its plastic bowl (it looks like your Kenwood may have stainless, though).  After making a dough with the KitchenAid I need to make sure to wash the stainless bowl before any of the leftover dough starts to dry, or it will be hard to get off.  With the Kenwood, I let the dough remains dry completely and then it flakes off effortlessly.  Just a good rinse is needed to get the bowl clean.

But the stainless bowl is a better all around choice as its better for such things as whipping egg whites (plastics can't be cleaned well enough to eliminate residual fats that may destroy your odds of creating, say, a proper meringue).

But to the point of how to employ it to pizza dough, just play with it and develop your own style.  Mine is much more lackadaisical than Pete-zza (whose posts and attention to detail I do find fascinating).  I've done a lot of autolysing, poolishing, etc., but in the end have found myself eliminating a lot of the fussy details that didn't obviously prove themselves through experimentation.  Or, to put it more simply, I'm lazy and am looking for the most efficient methods.  I should also point out that my pizzas are almost always baked in commercial pans rather than on a stone, deck or other device.

But with all that, my basic method is as follows...

500 grams High Gluten Flour - In the bowl
350 grams Water - In the bowl (this is a far wetter dough than most you'll find here)
10 grams Olive Oil - In the bowl
7 grams Active Dry Yeast - In the bowl
12 grams Salt - Reserved until half way through the kneading

Unceremoniously dump the first four ingredients into the bowl, attach the dough hook, and turn the mixer on a low speed until the mixture is combined.  Then increase the speed to about 3/4 for 10 minutes (add the salt after the first 5 minutes).  The dough won't 'clean the bowl' - some will stick to the bottom throughout.  Remove dough and, on a floured surface, divide into three pieces.  Place each in a small ziplock bag and put in the refrigerator for at least 24 hours (or freeze and thaw later in the 'fridge for 48 hours before use).

When ready to cook, roll out the dough (resting the dough for 5 minutes every time it seems to want to fight back) to 16" (my pan size).  Place in oiled pan and let rise, covered, 1-2 hours.  Dress with sauce, cheese and toppings, and bake at 550 on the bottom rack (500 works too) until eminently edible (10-15 min).

« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 08:03:32 PM by IndyRob »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2009, 11:53:00 AM »
JohnLondon,

Out of curiosity, this morning I decided to take a look at the owner's manual for my KitchenAid stand mixer to see what instructions are given for kneading pizza dough in the mixer. There is only one recipe for making pizza dough in the owner's manual and it is with respect to using all-purpose flour. At the time I bought my mixer, over 30 years ago, it was not common to use higher gluten flours to make pizza dough. Moreover, the only yeast mentioned in my KitchenAid owner's manual is active dry yeast (ADY). That is because at the time the manual was written, instant dry yeast (IDY) either had not yet been invented (it was invented in the 1970s) or had not yet received wide acceptance.

In any event, the instructions given for the pizza dough are as follows:

Sprinkle yeast over warm water in warmed Bowl; let stand for 5 minutes. Add salt, olive oil and 2 1/2 cups flour. Attach Bowl and Dough Hook. Turn to Speed 2 and mix for 2 minutes. Add remaining flour, 1/2 cup at a time, until dough clings to Hook and cleans sides of Bowl. Knead on Speed 2 for 5 minutes.

I might add that for bread dough, as opposed to pizza dough, the owner's manual calls for placing all of the dry ingredients into the mixer bowl except for the last one or two cups of flour. Using the dough hook and speed 2, the ingredients are mixed for about 30 seconds or until the ingredients are combined. Continuing on speed 2, the liquid ingredients are then gradually added to the flour mixture for about 30 seconds to one minute. The dough is then mixed for one minute longer. Continuing at speed 2, the remaining flour is gently tapped around the sides of the bowl, 1/2 cup at a time, and mixed until the dough clings to the hook and cleans the sides of the bowl, about 5 minutes. When the dough clings to the hook, the dough is kneaded at speed 2 for 7-10 minutes or until the dough is smooth and elastic.

I have no idea as to why the instructions are not identically given for pizza dough as opposed to bread dough. You will also note that the beater attachment is not used.

I should also add that you shouldn't be afraid to stop the mixer from time to time and use human intervention. For certain types of doughs, especially those with low hydration levels (like a cracker style doughs), home stand mixers do not do a particularly effective job of combining the ingredients. Some of the flour might not be fully incorporated and sit at the bottom or sides of the bowl or oil might not easily incorporate into the dough, especially when added to the dough after some initial mixing/kneading rather than to the water initially. Dough can also easily attach itself to the dough hook and just spin with the dough hook and not get sufficient kneading. This means that you will either have to stop the mixer to reorient the dough or use a spatula (like the one I mentioned) to dislodge the dough from the hook. These kinds of problems and interventions are never acknowledged by the manufacturers of home stand mixers in their instructions.

Peter

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2009, 04:20:06 PM »
Well, I pretty much used this method to make my dough this morning.

might add that for bread dough, as opposed to pizza dough, the owner's manual calls for placing all of the dry ingredients into the mixer bowl except for the last one or two cups of flour. Using the dough hook and speed 2, the ingredients are mixed for about 30 seconds or until the ingredients are combined. Continuing on speed 2, the liquid ingredients are then gradually added to the flour mixture for about 30 seconds to one minute. The dough is then mixed for one minute longer. Continuing at speed 2, the remaining flour is gently tapped around the sides of the bowl, 1/2 cup at a time, and mixed until the dough clings to the hook and cleans the sides of the bowl, about 5 minutes. When the dough clings to the hook, the dough is kneaded at speed 2 for 7-10 minutes or until the dough is smooth and elastic.

Used a recipe that you gave me for a 8-9 hour dough, American style. When shaping I used a 50/50 blend of flour and semolina .Cooked on a stone for 9-10 minutes at 475 degrees . It was fantastic.I was actually quite proud of myself  ;D it tasted so good.The crust had that springy feel to it,just a bit crisp on the outside but light and airy inside.Topped with my sauce(with the star anise added, tasted even better today),pepperoni and onion. Can't wait to make my next one now .I just need to be more methodical in my approach so I have an idea how each little change affects the outcome.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2009, 05:01:19 PM »
JohnLondon,

You seem to have moved up the learning curve quite quickly. Congratulations. You should feel proud.

Which 8-9 hour dough recipe did I recommend to you? Was it an existing one or one that I tailored to your needs?

Peter

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2009, 07:02:12 PM »
Hi Peter, it was the recipe in reply #8 on this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7671.0.html

Offline JohnLondon

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2009, 07:08:46 PM »
Oh and I have only put into practice things I have learnt from you and this site.Hopefully the learning will continue and my pizza will only get better. Stick around Pete, because I may well have lots more questions for you  ;D

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2009, 07:17:33 PM »
Hi Peter, it was the recipe in reply #8 on this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7671.0.html


JohnLondon,

Here is the link directly to Reply 8: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7671.msg65896.html#msg65896. To see how to do that, see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html.

Did the dough make it out OK to 8-9 hours and how did the dough behave during the total fermentation time? I ask just in case there is a need to adjust the dough formulation based on your results.

Peter


Offline JohnLondon

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 03:45:43 AM »
Erm, I guess I still have a lot to learn  ::) .Im not sure exactly what you mean.
It doubled in size after approx 6 hours .I punched it down and left it for another 3.5 hours.It again doubled in size.Then I used it. It shaped very easily,once I had done that I covered it with cling film (seran wrap?)and left it for twnty minutes or so then topped and cooked

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2009, 09:29:55 AM »
It doubled in size after approx 6 hours .I punched it down and left it for another 3.5 hours.It again doubled in size.Then I used it. It shaped very easily,once I had done that I covered it with cling film (seran wrap?)and left it for twnty minutes or so then topped and cooked

JohnLondon,

That is what I meant. You perhaps could have shaved off some time by using the dough before the second double but by and large the dough formulation seemed to work well enough as it was.

Peter

Offline JConk007

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Re: Using a mixer for the first time
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2009, 01:53:29 PM »
Peter.
After reading your posts I have since been using  flat beater for my Kitchen artisan 500 5qt. It really does incorporate the ingredients nicely. Thanks for that tip! When spring arrives and I start with the WFO I wonder how much dough I can make in 1 shot at 65-68% hydration without blowing the poor thing up. I have been making 3-4 batches of say 3 1/2 cups..... but it appears I may be able to push it up quite a bit. I would like to get it down to 2 batches I need like 15 - 20 balls minimum 250G
By the way the DKM cracker 9 hr room rise followed by 10+hrs. in fridge with the KA Sir Lancelot came out fantastic!! I will put up some pics later tonight. Oh and another tip I got from you, was warm it a bit 100 degree oven worked out well too! rolled out beautiful. I was wondering when I finished the dough as it was very stiff. I am Still learning, so I am finishing by hand for a brief minute the different doughs I am trying to get a real feel for the recipe  and get a crust to  finished texture thing in my head. this stuff was tough.
Thanks again.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 01:55:16 PM by JConk007 »
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