Burts/Pequods

[AimlessRyan]

Stick with the Pink Floyd quotes, please, Bob.

[vcb]

As a Chicagoland expat who now lives in the South, I've never liked or agreed with the "biscuity" description.  Y'all have obviously never had a good biscuit.   

I realize it is used to distinguish it from "bready," but seriously, DD is absolutely nothing at all like a biscuit in texture.  Not a good biscuit, anyway.  Yes, DD has high fat and a short knead, but that doesn't make it the soul brother of the biscuit.

I don't know what to propose...  Sadly, I'm sure this misnomer is here to stay.  But at least I lashed out, Don Quixote style, to strike a blow for the South! 

I think of chicago deep dish dough as the sturdy mutant offspring of a threesome between pasta, pie crust and biscuit dough.
Somewhere in the middle of that carbohydrate-porn, the truth of deep dish dough resides. 

*update:
Okay, now the yeast is making me think that bread got in there for a foursome.

[Garvey]

Shortbread. 

If we are describing the texture, shortbread is a LOT closer than "biscuit." Without the gluten formation, DD is undoubtedly short in texture.

[rcbaughn]

A good southern biscuit has lots of flaky layers that are formed by many many layers of solid butter or shortening. Most deep dish formulas use liquid oil or melted butter which doesn't really provide that kind of division in layers, or at least not in the DD pies I've made.

That sound correct though? I don't really know of a bread that has a texture like DD dough, it's pretty unique from everything I've made or bought.

[vcb]

A good southern biscuit has lots of flaky layers that are formed by many many layers of solid butter or shortening. Most deep dish formulas use liquid oil or melted butter which doesn't really provide that kind of division in layers, or at least not in the DD pies I've made.

That sound correct though? I don't really know of a bread that has a texture like DD dough, it's pretty unique from everything I've made or bought.

There's more than one style of biscuit.
Deep dish is more like a drop biscuit, I'm thinkin'.

[Chicago Bob]

There's more than one style of biscuit.
Deep dish is more like a drop biscuit, I'm thinkin'.

+1
That is prolly where the "biscuit" comparison comes from. Cory's southern multi layer biscuit if few and far seen.  However, MOST southern fast food/restaurant "biscuits" are indeed made more in the style of Ed's "dropped biscuits". A dense high fat yet somehow "fluffy"(yes I know I said dense) texture. 

[Garvey]

There's more than one style of biscuit.

Good ones and bad ones?
Real ones and impostors?  

 

Yeah, that might be more like it.  Even so, a drop biscuit is way too soft.  I'm stickin' with shortbread, since "yeast raised savory biscotti that hasn't been cooked a second time" is too much...   

[Chicago Bob]

Good ones and bad ones?
Real ones and impostors?  

 

Yeah, that might be more like it.  Even so, a drop biscuit is way too soft.  I'm stickin' with shortbread, since "yeast raised savory biscotti that hasn't been cooked a second time" is too much...   

If you mean shortbread like the cookie that is too crumbly a texture, no?

[Garvey]

Well it is short, in the baking sense, and it is bread, more or less...  

But not like the crumbly Keebler krep, no.  But I'd say that DD dough is firmer than a Popeye's fast food biscuit but not as stiff as a Keebler cookie. 

[Chicago Bob]

Well it is short, in the baking sense, and it is bread, more or less...  

But not like the crumbly Keebler krep, no.  But I'd say that DD dough is firmer than a Popeye's fast food biscuit but not as stiff as a Keebler cookie. 

Yep, I think we've got it nailed now....

[PuRowdy]

When there is Thursday Night Football there is a need for some awesome pizza. 

This was by far the best pizza I have made yet.  Changed up my sauce to a version of one I read about here, it was such a huge improvement.  Big props to BTB for listing the ingredients to add to the tomatoes.  Started off with some italian crushed tomatoes I could get at my local grocery store, then added: oregano, garlic, white pepper, sea salt, ground ginger, honey, and brown sugar.  Didn't measure anything, just to taste. 

These were also the first pizza's I cooked in my new pizza pans, versus the spring form pans I had been using.  Also in the past I had been cooking the pizzas on the oven racks versus on my pizza stone.  Between the 2 of these things I was able to dramatically cut down my cook time.  What used to take close to 50 minutes I was able to get in about 28 at 470 degrees. 

My guests thoroughly enjoyed!  Here is a link to the pics.

http://imgur.com/a/2Q2Od

[BTB]

. . . big props to BTB for listing the ingredients to add to the tomatoes.  Started off with some italian crushed tomatoes I could get at my local grocery store, then added: oregano, garlic, white pepper, sea salt, ground ginger, honey, and brown sugar.  Didn't measure anything, just to taste.

Wonderful pictures.  They look just like the pizzas I ate many times when Burt owned Pequod's.  And I love the way you flavored the tomato sauce.  Throw away the measuring devices (lol) and add spices et al to taste and err on the side of adding less as opposed to adding more.  A too heavily added ingredient often "ruins" a day or two's hard work.  FWIW. 

Again, great job.                           --BTB                             

[pulykamell]

A good southern biscuit has lots of flaky layers that are formed by many many layers of solid butter or shortening. Most deep dish formulas use liquid oil or melted butter which doesn't really provide that kind of division in layers, or at least not in the DD pies I've made.

That sound correct though? I don't really know of a bread that has a texture like DD dough, it's pretty unique from everything I've made or bought.

I agree with this, which is weird when I saw the Cook's Illustrated (or was it America's Test Kitchen--same difference) doing their version of the Chicago deep dish, and the dough recipe resembled something more like puff pastry than anything I've ever seen in Chicago.

Ah, here it is. Look at 6:30 onward. It's not quite the same technique as puff pastry, but similar. That's quite unlike any deep dish I've ever seen. And the description is odd, too, in my opinion: "Bridget Lancaster saves you a trip to Chicago by showing how to make the real deal with its signature, seriously flaky crust." I would not describe deep dish as have a flaky crust. *shrug* Now, I'm not saying that doesn't make a damned good pizza crust. It may very well. It just doesn't sound like anything resembling a Chicago deep dish crust.

[pulykamell]

I'm not offended...I just do NOT believe Burt had much to do with "Chicago Style" pizza. But, then again I only lived in Chicago for most of my life and ate mostly thin crust or cracker crust pizza's. How anyone can possibly think that thick crust pizza defines "Chicago Pizza" is beyond me. Thick crust came along LONG after thin crust in Chicago. What defines "Chicago" pizza is the sausage (I lived in the 'back of the yards') and the thin crispy crust. When someone asks me what the difference between Chicago pizza and New York pizza is...I simply say, if you can fold it in half without it (crust) breaking than it ain't from Chicago!

Hey! I was born near 47th & Damen, grandpa lived on 43rd & Wood, Back of the Yards represent!

That said, when I think of pizza, like you, I think of thin crust first. That was what I grew up with. Our family moved a little west when I was 4, so it was Chesdan's, Falco's, Just-a-Pizza, and occasionally Palermo's. When I grew older, Vito and Nicks became (and still is) my standard bearer for a great Chicago pizza.

However, I do think Burt has made his mark on the Chicago pizza landscape, and his style of pies are a varient of Chicago deep dish. Like vbc, I sometimes call it "modern Chicago deep dish" or think of it as a cross between Detroit-style and Chicago-style pan pizzas. But I do think it's a subset of deep dish Chicago pizza that has more in common with the original styles of deep dish than the 70s stuffed variations (Gioradanos, Edwardo's, Nancy's) do.

Regardless, the world is better with more styles of pizza. I don't believe that any pizza is better than no pizza. There are terrible pizzas out there. But every style I've been able to find a version I love (well, not so sure about St. Louis provel pizza. Give me time.)

[vcb]

I started working on the 'Quod clone again and have my latest version of the recipe in a formatted PDF.

It is still a work in progress, but I'm pretty close.
For those just joining us who are not familiar with the Pequod's style, this is not a beginners level recipe; I recommend reading this entire thread before you proceed.

Enjoy: http://www.realdeepdish.com/TheQuod-2013-0309.pdf

I recommend leaving some good gaps between the dough and the inside of the pan so the cheese can get down in there and give you a good amount of char.

(p.s. - nice to see the new forum lets you attach 256k image files compared to the 128k they used to be)

[Chicago Bob]

Oh my....here we go....thanks Ed!! 

So far sooo good, looks niiice. 

[vcb]

Oh my....here we go....thanks Ed!! 

So far sooo good, looks niiice. 

Thanks. Bob.
I figured I'd get us back on track in this thread. The "Chicago Style Thin Crust" discussion that took place in here should probably get copied in its entirety and put in it's own thread.

Annnnnnnnyway...

Hormel had these packs of 'thick sliced' pepperoni, which I used in this last attempt. They pool up too much grease, so I'm switching back to standard thickness in my next pie.

If you have a Mariano's Fresh Market near you, they make excellent Italian sausage on site in their meat dept. The hot variety was loaded with Fennel seeds and Red Pepper Flakes.

I used a combination of shredded Queso Chihuahua, which I then covered with sliced low moisture mozzarella.
It was a bit too much cheese, so next time I'll cut back on the Chihuahua or leave it out.
In past attempts, I've used Wisconsin Brick, which I highly recommend.

One more thing: Try not to push all the air out of the dough when you spread it out in the pan. That's one reason I suggest giving it another half hour to rise in the pan.
 

[pete zappie]

Burt's is great, i love to take the outta towners here for a pizza experience of a lifetime. make sure you call well in advance and pre order AND get there on time because your pie will be waiting there for you ...or.... suffer the wrath of Burt  . so funny to watch him scream at potential new customers for thinking they can just walk in off the street and eat. we always pre game down the block at the bringer inn -no time for that at Burt's. Great pizza, great guy, however many leave crying to yelp  . not a place for people with thin skin