Burts/Pequods

[loowaters]

Ed, that looks great!  You've inspired me to tinker.  I have a smallish dough ball leftover in the fridge from two days ago and I'll post results if can actually make a pie tonight.

Loo

[vcb]

Good idea!
I'm looking in the Sicilian style forum for some clues on dough mods.

Does anyone here have a favorite sicilian recipe listed there?

Ed, excellent looking pizzas and pictures.  A couple of thoughts:  I, too, had the over-crispness problem with pepperoni and now generally add it on after the pizza has cooked a while, like for the last 15  or 20 minutes or so.  If you can find it, suggest trying Canadian mild white cheddar instead of sharp cheddar along with mozzarella.  A friend of mine had some success with that.  And suggest trying a Sicilian dough recipe, if you hadn't already, but cut back on the yeast.  Because of all your many testings, I trust you have a lot of pizza eaters around you.
                                                      --BTB               

[loowaters]

Full disclosure:  I've never had Burt's or Pequod's.  Quite remarkable considering all the pizza I've eaten growing up in the Chicago area. 

I really thought that I had some better pics but next time I'll take better shots of the caramelized cheese crust from the back.  I thought I did but guess not. 

Here's the formulation based on some qualities and prep techniques of the Pizza Hut Pan recipe:

KA AP Flour   100%
Water (hot)    28
2% Milk (cold) 28
Corn Oil          5.5
Sugar            1.9
Salt              1.5
IDY                .9

TF= .1295     12" dough ball = 415g

All ingredients into bowl and mixed and kneaded with C dough hook in KA Mixer for 5 minutes.  Formed into ball and allowed to double in an oiled bowl for about two hours.  Patted out to just under the 12" size that I wanted on counter top w/out bench flour.  Oiled 12" pan with approximately 2 T of classic olive oil and laid dough into pan to rise to fill pan.  Let rise in oven with light on and hot water for humidity for about 2 hours.  Covered with plastic wrap and put in fridge for 18 hours.  Dough actually contracted a bit in fridge.  Removed from fridge three hours before cooking.  Laid 3/4 lb. of low-moisture part-skim mozz on top of dough trying not to press down.  Each slice of cheese around the outside is laid just against the pan walls to caramelize.  Topped with sauce (1 35 oz. can of Cento Italian Peeled tomatoes de-seeded, cores removed, hand crushed, then returned to remaining puree.  Salt, pepper, touch of sugar, dried basil, EVOO to season.) and some large disks of sausage on one half and pepperoni on the other.  Cooked at 475* for 22 minutes, middle rack, on a preheated dark perforated disk because I was using my lighter colored pan to not burn the cheese too badly.

Again, sorry I didn't get a better look at the caramelized crust.  I will say this...it came out really good!!!  The only thing I'll try next time is to up the TF to .14.  and get the sauce a bit farther out on the cheese to allow it to blend with the cheese and get some of the sugars from the tomatoes to caramelize a bit as well.

I don't know how it rates against Burt's/Pequod's, but it was pretty good and I'm usually really hard on myself especially with first attempts.

Loo

[mrmojo1]

WOW!!!  that looks wonderfully delicious!  you are truly a master Loo!!!  i too have never had Burts or Pequods and i lived in Chi for 22 years.....dang!  it is on the list when i get back there.  you have just moved it higher up on the list with your pizza!!!

[loowaters]

Thanks mojo, I'm kinda shootin' in the dark here.  BTB made a comment about similarities to the Pizza Hut Pan in this post http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7879.msg68224.html#msg68224 and that's what I was looking at to base this this effort on.  I did make it a bit thinner and decided to drop the dry milk in favor of actual 2% milk, thinking that's the more likely ingredient in a small operation than non-fat dry milk.  I put a touch more oil in it on accident as I couldn't stop the pour into the bowl.  Whoops!  I was shooting for 4.5%, more in line with the PH Pan bakers % in the thread on the American Style page.  What's kinda cool is that this type of pizza looks best the more sloppy it appears.  Really wet, soupy sauce?  No problem.  Dough a bit uneven?  So what. 

I mentioned in reply #20 above that I had a small dough to tinker with.  I did use that small dough in a black 10" pan and really burnt the cheese badly before the dough was cooked as well as I would've liked but it was an important step toward what I wanted to attempt.  I was just looking to see how the cheese caramelized and I did have that sauce out there on the edge as well creating an aroma that I hadn't experienced in years.  I'm not sure what pizza place as a kid that brought back memories of.  Maybe Fanella's in Ingleside.   The sugars from the tomato and the saltiness of the cheese was an awesome combination.  I did miss that on the pie above by not getting the sauce out as far.  Lesson learned.  I used the silver pan because of how charred the cheese became with the black anodized pan.

Loo

[loowaters]

Another effort tonight with the only change being that I upped the TF to the .14 that I mentioned I would attempt this time around.  Here's the money shot on the crust.  The shot showing the depth of the crust from the inside isn't the best quality but hopefully you can get an idea of what it's like.

Loo

[vcb]

Another effort tonight with the only change being that I upped the TF to the .14 that I mentioned I would attempt this time around.  Here's the money shot on the crust.

Loo

Nice job on that char, Loo!
Do you have any more pics to show the thickness of your crust?

Pequod's has a puffy raised crust (yes, very much like pizza hut pan), somewhere between .75" to 1 inch in depth, not counting the charred cheese that makes it's own lip on the outer edge.

[loowaters]

Added.

[vcb]

Thanks, Loo!

I'm curious which dough recipe you used.

[loowaters]

Ed, it's up at reply #22

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7879.msg88603.html#msg88603

[Lou Dog]

Kudos, Loo!  For you not ever having been to Burts or Pequods, that's a really impressive version--I think you nailed it.  Interesting, I've never attempted to use milk in my dough--what do you think it adds?

[loowaters]

The milk in this case will soften dough up especially in the quantity that I used it in this effort.

[vcb]

Full disclosure:  I've never had Burt's or Pequod's.  Quite remarkable considering all the pizza I've eaten growing up in the Chicago area. 

I really thought that I had some better pics but next time I'll take better shots of the caramelized cheese crust from the back.  I thought I did but guess not. 

Here's the formulation based on some qualities and prep techniques of the Pizza Hut Pan recipe:

KA AP Flour   100%
Water (hot)    28
2% Milk (cold) 28
Corn Oil          5.5
Sugar            1.9
Salt              1.5
IDY                .9

TF= .1295     12" dough ball = 415g

All ingredients into bowl and mixed and kneaded with C dough hook in KA Mixer for 5 minutes.  Formed into ball and allowed to double in an oiled bowl for about two hours.  Patted out to just under the 12" size that I wanted on counter top w/out bench flour.  Oiled 12" pan with approximately 2 T of classic olive oil and laid dough into pan to rise to fill pan.  Let rise in oven with light on and hot water for humidity for about 2 hours.  Covered with plastic wrap and put in fridge for 18 hours.  Dough actually contracted a bit in fridge.  Removed from fridge three hours before cooking.  Laid 3/4 lb. of low-moisture part-skim mozz on top of dough trying not to press down.  Each slice of cheese around the outside is laid just against the pan walls to caramelize.  Topped with sauce (1 35 oz. can of Cento Italian Peeled tomatoes de-seeded, cores removed, hand crushed, then returned to remaining puree.  Salt, pepper, touch of sugar, dried basil, EVOO to season.) and some large disks of sausage on one half and pepperoni on the other.  Cooked at 475* for 22 minutes, middle rack, on a preheated dark perforated disk because I was using my lighter colored pan to not burn the cheese too badly.

Again, sorry I didn't get a better look at the caramelized crust.  I will say this...it came out really good!!!  The only thing I'll try next time is to up the TF to .14.  and get the sauce a bit farther out on the cheese to allow it to blend with the cheese and get some of the sugars from the tomatoes to caramelize a bit as well.

I don't know how it rates against Burt's/Pequod's, but it was pretty good and I'm usually really hard on myself especially with first attempts.

Loo

Here's a dough test that I will be baking tomorrow night. I used Ceresota All Purpose flour, 2% milk, and hand mixed/kneaded the dough.
I increased the water and oil because the dough wasn't coming together into a ball. Hopefully it will help with the puffiness I'm trying to achieve with a Pequod-style pan pizza dough. After 2 hours of rising under warm lights, I'm giving it an overnight rise in the fridge.

Ed’s Quod Mod: 4-5-2010

For a 12”

Flour (100%):       300 g   10.55 oz    2.5 cup   
Water (41%):        122 g       4 oz    0.5 cup
ADY (0.8%):        2.39 g               0.63 tsp
Salt (1.0%):       2.99 g               0.54 tsp
Olive Oil (4.5%):  13.5 g    0.5  oz      1 tsp
Corn Oil (9%):       27 g      1  oz      2 tbsp
Sugar (1.3%):      3.89 g    0.14 oz       1 tsp
Milk  (20.5%):    61.31 g    2.16 oz    0.25 cup

Total (150.1%):   448.88 g     15.83 oz     1 lbs | TF = 0.14

I'll try to post pics soon.

[vcb]

Here's a dough test that I will be baking tomorrow night. I used Ceresota All Purpose flour, 2% milk, and hand mixed/kneaded the dough.
I increased the water and oil because the dough wasn't coming together into a ball. Hopefully it will help with the puffiness I'm trying to achieve with a Pequod-style pan pizza dough. After 2 hours of rising under warm lights, I'm giving it an overnight rise in the fridge.

Ed’s Quod Mod: 4-5-2010

For a 12”

Flour (100%):       300 g   10.55 oz    2.5 cup   
Water (41%):        122 g       4 oz    0.5 cup
ADY (0.8%):        2.39 g               0.63 tsp
Salt (1.0%):       2.99 g               0.54 tsp
Olive Oil (4.5%):  13.5 g    0.5  oz      1 tsp
Corn Oil (9%):       27 g      1  oz      2 tbsp
Sugar (1.3%):      3.89 g    0.14 oz       1 tsp
Milk  (20.5%):    61.31 g    2.16 oz    0.25 cup

Total (150.1%):   448.88 g     15.83 oz     1 lbs | TF = 0.14

I'll try to post pics soon.

pics are below (more photos on my blog):

[loowaters]

That looks absolutely fantastic!  Great work, Ed.  What kind and how much cheese?

Loo

[vcb]

That looks absolutely fantastic!  Great work, Ed.  What kind and how much cheese?

Loo

Stella (bakers and chefs) low moisture part skim mozzarella

I'm not sure exactly how much, but it was a 12" slanted pan (11 inches on the bottom, 12 on the top), so it was probably 1 to 1-1/2 lbs of cheese.
I patted the dough flat in a greased pan, not minding a little springback (the cheese fills in the gap!).
Cheese laid out all over the bottom and up the inner edge.

[BTB]

Great, great pictures, Ed.  Looks as good as any of the many Pequod's pizzas that I had over the years.  Their crust is substantially different from the Malnati's, Gino's East, Due's, and Pizano's, but still excellent in their own unique way.  It's been a long time since I had a Buddy's in Detroit, but since you mentioned it, that does seem like a similar style (i.e., more like Sicilian).  It's a great change of pace type of deep dish.  What a great job  -- as appears in the pictures at least -- on duplicating that crust/cheese carmelization.  Can you describe a little more how you put the cheese in the pan edges?  Before or after putting in the dough?  Not clear on how you did that.

Also, how are you finding the Ceresota AP to work with your pizzamaking?

This picture especially makes my mouth water just looking at it.  And I remember a piece like that occupying my plate on numerous occasions. 

                                                                                 --BTB

[vcb]

Great, great pictures, Ed.  Looks as good as any of the many Pequod's pizzas that I had over the years.  Their crust is substantially different from the Malnati's, Gino's East, Due's, and Pizano's, but still excellent in their own unique way.  It's been a long time since I had a Buddy's in Detroit, but since you mentioned it, that does seem like a similar style (i.e., more like Sicilian).  It's a great change of pace type of deep dish.  What a great job  -- as appears in the pictures at least -- on duplicating that crust/cheese carmelization.  Can you describe a little more how you put the cheese in the pan edges?  Before or after putting in the dough?  Not clear on how you did that.

Also, how are you finding the Ceresota AP to work with your pizzamaking?

This picture especially makes my mouth water just looking at it.  And I remember a piece like that occupying my plate on numerous occasions. 

                                                                                 --BTB

This is my first time using the Ceresota All-Purpose flour. It works pretty well! I'm not sure my dough is quite right yet, but it's close. The crust was soft inside like it should be, but I'd like it a little more pillowy. It might be that the dough wasn't up to room temp when I baked it.

I should have taken a picture of the 'delicate cheese procedure' (thank you Aqua Teen Hunger Force) , but basically it goes like this:

Pat out the dough all the way to the edges of a well greased pan - I used corn oil (do NOT bring the edge up like a lou malnati's).
You want it even all the way to the edge.
As I mentioned above, it's OK if the dough springs back a little or leaves an 1/8th - 1/16th inch gap between the outer edge of the dough and the inside of the pan because the cheese will fill the gap.
Spread sliced mozzarella cheese on top of the dough, slightly overlapping each slice to entirely cover the bottom, going all the way up the edge of the inside of the pan; the outer cheese slices should slightly curve up the edge of the inner wall of the pan.

Add italian sausage (if you're using it) in small quarter sized chunks. I broke up 2 links of raw hot italian sausage, but you can use mild.
Cover completely with sauce, all the way to the edge of the pan, so only the outer cheese slices supported by the inner wall are hanging slightly above.
If topping with pepperoni, press the pepperoni into the sauce (you don't have to bury it under, but make sure it's not just floating on top or it will burn).

I baked them at about 475 for about 35-40 minutes. You have to keep an eye on them so they get the desired outer char.

Pequod sauce is a bit on the sweet and spicy side, and it's very similar to the 'Pastorelli' canned pizza sauce that you might be able to find at your grocery store. That's what I used... with a few modifications:  dilute the sauce with your favorite sweet crushed tomatoes (I used the san marzano white label) , add a bit of sugar if necessary to sweeten up the sauce and soften the bite of the Pastorelli spices.

[joekerjr]

I realize this thread has been dormant a year but I had to take a stab at Pequod's style. I just moved to Austin, TX two months ago and have been craving it ever since.

I started with the recipes here and improvised a little, risky since I've never attempted a Chicago style at all before.

Some of the improve was because my scale is still in Milwaukee and some because I couldn't find 6 in 1 out here.

I used a sloped cast iron skillet that's fairly well seasoned and 9" in diameter at the top.

For the sauce I used a drained can of fire roasted crushed tomato and added; garlic paste, dried basil and dried oregano.

After hand mixing and kneading, I let it rest in a barely warm oven for two hours. I kneaded some more and divided it in half. One half was put in the fridge, the other into the corn oiled skillet. I let that rest another hour then built the pie.

The only disappointment I had was the cheese not caramelizing. I put it between the skillet and the dough. It browned and tasting fairly good but wasn't anywhere near Pequod's. My favorite part was how well the pepperoni turned out; just crispy on the edges, mmm. I pushed each one down after placing it on top of the sauce.

I'll try the other half of the dough tomorrow night after it's been in the fridge 24 hours then let sit on the counter for a few.

Suggestions, comments, criticisms? Welcome!

[Dibromin]

Loo, I have learned SO much from reading your posts!  I'm going to try making a pizza this week but I have a very amateurish question first...did you put RAW Italian sausage on the pizza??  I would have thought you would have cooked it first so you could drain some of the fat. 

I also wondered if you put any cheese in the bottom of the pan.

Thanks so much for any help you can give!