Author Topic: Bakers % Conversion  (Read 11374 times)

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Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Bakers % Conversion
« on: February 05, 2009, 10:12:37 PM »
I was wondering if there is a calculator to use to get the bakers % from a recipe.  I found the following recipe on the net for a clone for Rocky Rococo's Pizza.  It's actually more of a deep dish/sicilian style rather than Chicago but here the recipe:


"CHICAGO-STYLE DEEP DISH PIZZA DOUGH"   --AKA Rocky Rococo's

1 1/2 cups warm water (about 110 degrees F)
1 (1/4-ounce) packages active dry yeast
1 teaspoon sugar
3 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1/2 cup semolina flour
1/2 cup vegetable oil, plus 2 teaspoons to grease bowl
1 teaspoon salt

In a large bowl, combine the water, yeast, and sugar and stir to combine. Let sit until the mixture is foamy, about 5 minutes.

Add 1 1/2 cups of the flour, the semolina, 1/2 cup of the oil, and the salt, mixing by hand until it is all incorporated and the mixture is smooth. Continue adding the flour, 1/4 cup at a time, working the dough after each addition, until all the flour is incorporated but the dough is still slightly sticky.

Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface and knead until smooth but still slightly tacky, 3 to 5 minutes. Oil a large mixing bowl with the remaining 2 teaspoons oil.

Place the dough in the bowl and turn to oil all sides. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and set in a warm, draft-free place until nearly doubled in size, 1 to 1 1/2 hours.

Divide into 2 equal portions and use as directed.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 10:47:51 PM »
Tony,

There is no conversion tool on the forum that is capable of taking your recipe recited in volumes and converting it to a baker's percent format. The reason is that the flour can be measured out volumetrically in so many different ways. For example, I can think of at least a half dozen ways of measuring out 3 1/2 cups of flour volumetrically, and if I then weighed out the flour in each case I would get a different weight. Since the baker's percent format is based on weights, the baker's percents could vary quite considerably.

However, if we assume a particular method of measuring out the flour, it is possible to do some calculations and use one or more of the dough calculating tools to come up with a baker's percent format. I believe that it should then be possible to use the deep-dish dough calculating tool to determine the thickness factor for the particular recipe. That would then allow users to scale the recipe up or down to fit essentially any pan size, pan depth, and shape (straight-sided or sloping-sided). As an example, for purposes of the above exercise, I would assume that the 3 1/2 cups of flour is measured out using the Dip method as defined in Reply 21 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6576.msg56397/topicseen.html#msg56397. The flour I would use for this exercise is the Gold Medal all-purpose flour.

The recipe you posted is intended to make two 12" deep-dish pizzas. In your case, do you want to make one or two pizzas? Also, would you prefer a different size than 12"? It may also be possible to adapt the recipe for use in a rectangular/square pan. In such a case, the dimensions of the pan (width, length and depth) will be needed.

Once you respond, I will see what I can do.

Peter

Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 11:01:49 PM »
I actually have a 8" square, 8" round and a 9x11.  Any of these would do.  I actually would probaby prefer the 8" square alot of times as I'm trying out recipes.  Thanks Peter.

Tony
"You cannot live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." - John Wooden

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 09:36:44 AM »
Tony,

I believe I have worked out how to convert your dough recipe for two 12" round pizzas so that you can use it to make a square (8" x 8") pizza with the same crust characteristics as the 12" pizzas. In case you would like to go through the same sort of exercise yourself sometime in the future, this is how I did it:

First, I used member November's Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to convert 3 1/2 cups of Gold Medal all-purpose flour to a weight, using the "Dip" method of flour conversion. Next, I converted the remaining ingredients from volumes to weights using standard volume-to-weight conversion factors for such other ingredients. I then added the weights together to get a total weight, which in this case was 37.09 ounces, and calculated the baker's percents for the various ingredients (using a hand calculator). I then divided the total dough weight in half to get the amount of dough for one pizza which, in this case, is 18.54 ounces. Using the "Dough Weight" option of the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html with the dough weight for one pizza (18.54 ounces) and the calculated baker's percents, I got the following:

Gold Medal All-Purpose Flour (100%):
Water (70.6600%):
ADY (1.43617%):
Salt (1.13099%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (22.0873%):
Sugar (0.80785%):
Semolina (16.9199%):
Total (213.04221%):
246.75 g  |  8.7 oz | 0.54 lbs
174.35 g  |  6.15 oz | 0.38 lbs
3.54 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
2.79 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
54.5 g | 1.92 oz | 0.12 lbs | 4 tbsp | 0.25 cups
1.99 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
41.75 g | 1.47 oz | 0.09 lbs | 12 tsp | 4 tbsp
525.68 g | 18.54 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: For one 12" pizza; flour weight based on "Dip" method of flour measurement

To determine the thickness factor for the recipe to allow us to scale the recipe up or down in size and to use essentially any type of pan, I went to the deep-dish dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html. I selected the "Thickness Factor" option of that tool and entered the baker's percents from the above table. Also, since the above recipe is intended to be used to make a 12" pizza in a straight-sided pan with the dough pushed up the sides of the pan by 1 1/2", I also entered that data into the deep-dish dough calculating tool. Once all of that data was in the tool, I played around with the value of the thickness factor (in the thickness factor box) until I got the same outputs as in the above table. Knowing that most deep-dish doughs have a thickness factor in the range of 0.11-0.13, I simply used a value in the middle of that range and kept tweaking it until I got the right outputs. In this case, it was 0.11572. With that value, the deep-dish dough calculating tool produced the following:

Gold Medal All-Purpose Flour (100%):
Water (70.6600%):
ADY (1.43617%):
Salt (1.13099%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (22.0873%):
Sugar (0.80785%):
Semolina (16.9199%):
Total (213.04221%):
246.73 g  |  8.7 oz | 0.54 lbs
174.34 g  |  6.15 oz | 0.38 lbs
3.54 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
2.79 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
54.5 g | 1.92 oz | 0.12 lbs | 12 tsp | 4 tbsp
1.99 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
41.75 g | 1.47 oz | 0.09 lbs | 12 tsp | 4 tbsp
525.63 g | 18.54 oz | 1.16 lbs | TF = 0.11572

Once I established the above thickness factor for the recipe (0.11572), I then simply used that value in the deep-dish dough calculating tool together with your square 8" x 8" pan data (using the "Rectangular" pan option). As with the 12" round pizza example, I assumed that the dough would be pushed up the sides of your 8" x 8" pan by 1 1/2". With these changes, the deep-dish dough calculating tool produced the following:

Gold Medal All-Purpose Flour (100%):
Water (70.6600%):
ADY (1.43617%):
Salt (1.13099%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (22.0873%):
Sugar (0.80785%):
Semolina (16.9199%):
Total (213.04221%):
164.15 g  |  5.79 oz | 0.36 lbs
115.99 g  |  4.09 oz | 0.26 lbs
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
1.86 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
36.26 g | 1.28 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.98 tsp | 2.66 tbsp
1.33 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
27.77 g | 0.98 oz | 0.06 lbs | 7.98 tsp | 2.66 tbsp
349.72 g | 12.34 oz | 0.77 lbs | TF = 0.118613

As a final step, I decided to modify the above dough formulation to take into account minor dough losses during the preparation of the dough. In this case, since the dough is intended to be kneaded by hand, I used a bowl residue compensation value of 2.5% in the deep-dish dough calculating tool to compensate for such losses. If a stand mixer were used, I would use 1.5% instead. So, the final dough formulation for your 8" x 8" pan becomes:

Tony's 8" x 8" Deep-Dish Dough Formulation
Gold Medal All-Purpose Flour (100%):
Water (70.6600%):
ADY (1.43617%):
Salt (1.13099%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (22.0873%):
Sugar (0.80785%):
Semolina (16.9199%):
Total (213.04221%):
164.15 g  |  5.79 oz | 0.36 lbs
115.99 g  |  4.09 oz | 0.26 lbs
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
1.86 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
36.26 g | 1.28 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.98 tsp | 2.66 tbsp
1.33 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
27.77 g | 0.98 oz | 0.06 lbs | 7.98 tsp | 2.66 tbsp
349.72 g | 12.34 oz | 0.77 lbs | TF = 0.118613
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.11572; bowl residue compensation = 2.5%

As a final comment, you shouldn't be alarmed by what appears to be a very high hydration (70.77%) for the above dough formulation. If you add the weights of both the flour and the semolina, which is also hydrated, then the effective total hydration becomes 60.44%.

I don't know how well the above dough formulation will meet your needs, but I think you can see that it is all in the numbers. As you conduct your experiments, you should, of course, feel free to use the deep-dish dough calculating tool to change the numbers to achieve whatever objective you have in mind with respect to the dough formulations set forth above.

Good luck. Please keep as advised as to your progress.

Peter



« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 10:03:03 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 10:26:38 AM »
Great work Peter!  I just have a few questions for you.  Where did you convert the remaining ingredients from volumes to weights using standard volume-to-weight conversion factors?  Web site or..?  Also, it is actually a sicilian style pizza and not Chicago, therefore will the thickness factor change since it is not going up the sides 1 1/2"?  Is there a standard thickness for sicilian style?  Also, I assume there is not much difference it weight between the Gold Medal All-Purpose Flour and KABF, which I use for my pizzas?  And finally, my pan size is actually 8x8 so if the thickness is correct can I just go to the Lehman calculator to get the correct thickness and change the bowl residue compensation to 1.5% since I am using a stand mixer?  Thanks for all the hard work and postings Peter.  This should help everyone in their future endeavors of converting standard recipes to volumes and converting it to a baker's percent format.  I know it will help me.
Thanks again.

Tony
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 12:07:24 PM »
Tony,

Using the above dough formulations for a Sicilian style pizza changes things dramatically. However, to avoid confusion, I went back and corrected the last two dough formulations to reflect the use of an 8" x 8" pan even though you won't be using those formulations. It would have also helped to have known that you were planning to use King Arthur bread flour instead of the all-purpose flour called for by the recipe. As a result, I had to re-do all of the numbers and calculations from scratch.

Although I have not done much with Sicilian style pizzas (yet), I am sure that there is a range of thickness values that apply to that style also. For example, based on some research that I conducted some time ago, and discussed at Reply 22 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1073.msg19678.html#msg19678, a thickness factor range of about 0.12-0.13 seems to be typical for the Sicilian style, although there are outlier values that can fall outside of that range, such as the one used by Big Dave Ostrander. In your case, if it turns out that the dough recipe you originally posted adequately simulates the Rocky Rococo's Sicilian style from the standpoint of texture and taste, you may find it necessary to use a thickness factor outside of that 0.12-0.13 range if that is what is necessary to most closely simulate the Rocky Rococo pizza.

Based on the recalculations, including the shift to the KABF, the basic recipe converts to the following, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html:

King Arthur Bread Flour (100%):
Water (69.2213%):
ADY (1.40693%):
Salt (1.10796%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (21.6375%):
Sugar (0.7914%):
Semolina (16.5755%):
Total (210.74059%):
503.75 g  |  17.77 oz | 1.11 lbs
348.71 g  |  12.3 oz | 0.77 lbs
7.09 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.87 tsp | 0.62 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
109 g | 3.84 oz | 0.24 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups
3.99 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
83.5 g | 2.95 oz | 0.18 lbs | 8 tbsp | 0.5 cups
1061.61 g | 37.45 oz | 2.34 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Assumes "Dip" method of flour measurement

I used the above set of baker's percents to come up with a possible dough formulation for you to use in your Rocky Rococo journey using your 8" x 8" pan and the KABF. For purposes of using the expanded dough calculating tool, I assumed a thickness factor of 0.13. I also used a bowl residue compensation of 1.5% since you have indicated that you plan to use a stand mixer rather than hand kneading as called for in the original dough recipe you posted. Since you will be using KABF instead of all-purpose flour, you may find it necessary to use a little bit more water to compensate for the higher absorption value of the KABF.

Tony's 8" x 8" Sicilian Style Dough Formulation
Flour (100%):
Water (69.2213%):
ADY (1.40693%):
Salt (1.10796%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (21.6375%):
Sugar (0.7914%):
Semolina (16.5755%):
Total (210.74059%):
113.6 g  |  4.01 oz | 0.25 lbs
78.64 g  |  2.77 oz | 0.17 lbs
1.6 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
1.26 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.23 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
24.58 g | 0.87 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.41 tsp | 1.8 tbsp
0.9 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.23 tsp | 0.08 tbsp
18.83 g | 0.66 oz | 0.04 lbs | 5.41 tsp | 1.8 tbsp
239.41 g | 8.44 oz | 0.53 lbs | TF = 0.13195

Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.13; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

To answer your question about the volume-to-weight conversion data I use to convert the volumes of salt, sugar, yeast, etc., to weights, I use the conversion data that is embedded in the expanded dough calculating tool. A lot of that data comes from the labeling information for such ingredients and/or from information at the nutritiondata.com website.

As I was composing this reply, it occurred to me that some other member once asked about the Rocky Rococo pizza style. I did a forum search and found this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5057.msg42945.html#msg42945. Since nothing came of the thread, I proceeded to forget everything I learned in researching the Rocky Rococo style.

Peter




Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 12:29:24 PM »
Thanks again Peter.  Sorry for all the extra work, I will be more specific in following posts.  Rocky Rococo's is very similar to Big Cheese Thick crust if your familiar with that at all.  Another great pizza place that sold out not too long ago to Little Ceasars.  Sad day.  Anyway, I'll be trying out this recipe in the next few days and will post my progress with pics.  We'll see how it goes!
Tony
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Offline zalicious

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 02:06:06 PM »
Last spring , I made a Sicilian that my son's girlfriend said was as good as Rocky's :chef:. I was so flattered , my jaw just about hit the ground.( Needless to say, I love RR. ) I THINK this is the recipe that I used ( I have several Sicilian that I use, so not 100% sure :(. )

Flour- 100% ( sometimes BF, sometimes APF ) to this I take out 15%-20% for semolina = 85%-80% flour + 15%-20% semolina
Water- 58%
IDY- .67%
Salt- 2%
Oil- 5%
TF .14326

PS. If you come across their sauce recipe, please post it ;). ( Where is a begging smiley when you need one ? )
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 02:09:11 PM by zalicious »

Offline Pizzacrazy7

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 03:30:04 PM »
Zalicious,
       Heres is the sauce recipe that was included with the dough recipe.  I haven't tried yet so I don't actually know how close it is..?


2 tablespoons olive oil
1 tablespoon chopped fresh garlic
2 teaspoons chopped fresh basil
1 teaspoon chopped fresh oregano
1/4 teaspoon fennel seeds
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
1/4 teaspoon red pepper flakes
1 (28-ounce) can plum tomatoes, coarsely crushed
1 tablespoon dry red wine
1 teaspoon sugar
1 cup grated Parmesan

In a medium saucepan, heat the oil over medium-high heat. Add the garlic and cook, stirring, for 30 seconds.

Add the herbs, seeds, salt, and black and red peppers, and cook, stirring, for 30 seconds.

Add the tomatoes, wine and sugar, and bring to a boil. Lower the heat and simmer, stirring occasionally, until thickened, 20 to 30 minutes.

Remove from the heat and let cool completely before using.


"You cannot live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." - John Wooden

Offline zalicious

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 11:15:30 PM »
Wow, thank you so much! I will have to sub out dried herbs for the fresh, but will try this soon. I am very excited.
Please post about your Rocky's clone when you make it. Pics, too :).


Offline membrane

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Re: Bakers % Conversion
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 01:50:44 AM »
Wow, thank you so much! I will have to sub out dried herbs for the fresh, but will try this soon. I am very excited.
Please post about your Rocky's clone when you make it. Pics, too :).

Did anyone ever try making the Rocky Rococo clone?  It's one of my all time favorite pizza chains, but the nearest location is over 1000 miles away.  I'd love to make this at home and would like a good recipe.


 

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