Author Topic: NJ Boardwalk Pizza  (Read 253660 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1925 on: August 26, 2015, 10:44:57 AM »
Norma,

I'm glad that the dough recipe worked out well for you. The pizzas look very tasty, and it looks like you are able to easily twirl and toss the skins.

It also sounds like Manco and Manco have gone downhill.

Peter


Offline hodgey1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1926 on: August 26, 2015, 10:47:06 AM »
Norma,

Those pies look awesome! Way better than what I experienced last week at Manco & Manco's on the Ocean City boardwalk while we were on vacation. I watched them build their pies and what I saw was heavy with cheese down first, then they applied the sauce via a hose and spiraled it around the pie. My thoughts that day were that the pizza was a poor excuse for a pie :(. It has been a few years since I had theirs last, but remembered it being way better then, than that day. The dough was bone dry near cracker like, lacked sauce and we were served a pizza that came to our table in under 2 minutes and was a premade/luke warm pie :(. My wife took one bite, looked at me and said ours is way better and only had one slice. She may have been saving room for Kohr's bro's though? ;D

Your pizza looks like what my memory tells me a boardwalk pies should look like! I had Mack's a couple of years ago and remember it being very good. Next year when we go on vacation, I plan on going to Wildwood for Mack's. I wonder if the split between Mack & Manco has caused the change in quality, but I only get to the boardwalk once every year or two so my recollections can be argued. Keep up the great work!

Chris

Offline hodgey1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1927 on: August 26, 2015, 11:34:13 AM »
Also, can you post a link to the recipe?

Chris

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1928 on: August 26, 2015, 03:24:55 PM »
Norma,

I'm glad that the dough recipe worked out well for you. The pizzas look very tasty, and it looks like you are able to easily twirl and toss the skins.

It also sounds like Manco and Manco have gone downhill.

Peter

Peter,

The Mack's experimental attempt did taste very good.  The Cracker Barrel Sharp-White Cheddar had a little bit more tang than my cheddar has, but it reminded me a lot of Mack's cheddar.  The skin was easy to toss and twirl after a little pressing was done on the dough ball.  I don't know how you can figure out exactly what to try for a dough when you never even ate their pizzas, but you did a fine job in the dough formulation!  :chef:

If I find time I am going to make a 5 dough ball batch with the regular flour I now use.

I don't know why Manco & Manco would go downhill.  The photo below is a photo taken from their facebook page on July, 27th of this year.  It sure looks like Manco & Manco doesn't put a second layer of cheese on their pies.  Back in 2012 my daughter brought me some Manco & Manco slices home.  They did look like they had the second layer of cheese on at Reply 1167 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg197738#msg197738  I think I was at Manco and Manco since then, but can't find that post now.  I posted at Reply 1688 (in the last paragraph) http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg250298#msg250298  Steve (Ev) told me that the cheese had no tang and the crust was really bland. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1929 on: August 26, 2015, 03:38:39 PM »
Norma,

Those pies look awesome! Way better than what I experienced last week at Manco & Manco's on the Ocean City boardwalk while we were on vacation. I watched them build their pies and what I saw was heavy with cheese down first, then they applied the sauce via a hose and spiraled it around the pie. My thoughts that day were that the pizza was a poor excuse for a pie :(. It has been a few years since I had theirs last, but remembered it being way better then, than that day. The dough was bone dry near cracker like, lacked sauce and we were served a pizza that came to our table in under 2 minutes and was a premade/luke warm pie :(. My wife took one bite, looked at me and said ours is way better and only had one slice. She may have been saving room for Kohr's bro's though? ;D

Your pizza looks like what my memory tells me a boardwalk pies should look like! I had Mack's a couple of years ago and remember it being very good. Next year when we go on vacation, I plan on going to Wildwood for Mack's. I wonder if the split between Mack & Manco has caused the change in quality, but I only get to the boardwalk once every year or two so my recollections can be argued. Keep up the great work!

Chris

Chris,

Thank you about the experimental Mack's pizza!  Thanks for telling about your experiences at Manco & Manco last week and confirming they don't put a second layer of cheese on anymore.  Your pie you had at Manco & Manco doesn't sound good at all. 

I used to think Mack's was really good, but with time I don't think they are as good as they once were.  I don't know why Manco & Manco would change their quality, when cheddar isn't a expensive cheese for pizzas.  At least I know what I pay for the blocks of cheddar I get and it isn't as expensive as mozzarella. 

Also, can you post a link to the recipe?

Chris

Peter's formulation for the dough is at Reply 307 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg99472#msg99472

The Cracker Barrel Vermont White-Sharp cheddar worked well.  I posted about that and the sauce used at Reply 1917 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg393635#msg393635 and Reply http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg393676#msg393676  The Walmart products did need some extra water added.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1930 on: August 26, 2015, 03:48:03 PM »
Chris,

I forgot to mention in my last post, but if you ever get to the Trenton area you might want to try Joey's Pizza.  I posted about Joey's pizza at Reply 13 and the next few posts.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25251.msg254875#msg254875  I thought Joey's pizzas were very good, and reminded me of a old time Mack's pizza.  That is unless theirs went downhill since I have been there.  Joey's also uses cheddar. 

Norma

Offline hodgey1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1931 on: August 26, 2015, 04:39:52 PM »
Norma,

Thanks for all the information and all that you contribute here! I will have to try Joeys next year on my way down to the shore, thanks for the tip.

Chris :D

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1932 on: August 26, 2015, 05:03:44 PM »
Norma,

I see where you used the Walmart brand crushed and paste for the sauce and the ingredients you used, can you share the recipe/quantities ? Also did you think the sauce hit the mark for a Boardwalk  pie?

Chris

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1933 on: August 26, 2015, 06:20:14 PM »
Norma,

I see where you used the Walmart brand crushed and paste for the sauce and the ingredients you used, can you share the recipe/quantities ? Also did you think the sauce hit the mark for a Boardwalk  pie?

Chris

Chris,

I did use the Walmart Great Value brands of crushed tomatoes and paste for the sauce.  I didn't measure the amount of extra ingredients, because I usually wing it when I make the sauce for market using the same ingredients.  If you saw the photo of November's MAE olive oil with other ingredients, I would say I used about a little less than a tablespoon in with the crushed tomatoes and paste.  For the oregano, Italian seasonings I would guess about a teaspoon of both.  I would also guess about 4 garlic cloves were used in the MAE method, but I only used a part of that oil infusion was used for the experimental Mack's sauce.  For the Kosher salt it might have been about ˝ teaspoon.  For the sugar I added more after I tasted it, because it didn't taste as sweet as my normal sauce.  I would guess I added about 1/8 cup of food service Parmesan. About a pinch of red pepper flakes in the MAE method and in the final sauce.  I can tell you if different amounts are used it still tastes about the same after sitting for about a day in the refrigerator.  You can smell the garlic when the sauce is smelled, but it can't be tasted in the baked sauce.  To be truthful I have tried what someone told me in making a Mack's sauce with the ingredients they are supposed to add to the Gangi sauce.  In the end the sauce isn't really important in taste in combination with the flavors of the cheese and crust.  The thickness of the sauce should be that it can be poured with something with a spout.  I always add more oregano before I used my sauce and the experimental sauce I used.  I would have thought the extra oregano would be too much but it can't be tasted in the final baked pizza.  I know that might sound odd, but somehow that is what I taste and others that have tasted my sauce and pizzas think the same.

Norma


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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1934 on: August 26, 2015, 08:51:06 PM »
Norma,

Great information and detail, I think this will be my weekend pizza challenge. Thanks again for taking the time to give your insight!

Chris

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1935 on: August 27, 2015, 09:08:00 AM »
Norma,

Great information and detail, I think this will be my weekend pizza challenge. Thanks again for taking the time to give your insight!

Chris

Chris,

If you have any other questions just let me know.

If you or anyone might be interested, look at November's Pizza sauce at Reply 7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.msg32136#msg32136 It can be seen that there are a lot of ingredients to be used with using the MAE water extraction method of the herbs and spices for a pizza sauce.  If Tom Lehmann's post is read at Reply 165 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.msg237549#msg237549 he says that oil of any kind in the sauce helps to entrap the flavors released during baking of the pizza.  More is posted by Tom if you keep reading that post and the whole thread.  If you look at Peter's post at Reply 5 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.msg31883#msg31883 you can read that Pizza Shark often recommended that oregano in particular be put into hot or boiling water to release the compounds that contribute to flavor of pizza sauce.  I also had asked Tom Lehmann about using Parmesan cheese in pizza sauce in a PM and this is basically what he replied to me at Reply 2 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=33282.msg329821#msg329821 I use Red Cow Parmesan cheese but don't think the brand of Parmesan matter a lot.  When I first started making pizzas a local pizzeria owner told me how he makes his sauce.  He didn't use the MAE method but did sauté some of the ingredients in oil, which is basically the same as using the MAE method  He also used Parmesan cheese in his pizza sauce recipe.  You can decide what you like in different pizza sauces if you want to play around a little.  I like many kinds of pizza sauces on different styles of pizzas and still play around with trying to make different ones. 

If you want me to measure the ingredients that are added to the Walmart products I could do that on Monday. 

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1936 on: August 27, 2015, 11:23:01 AM »
Norma,

Were you pleased with the taste of the Walmart/MAE sauce? If not, do you have another recommendation for the Mack's clone sauce?

The MAE technique of flavor extraction is some very interesting information, "thanks for the link". I have for a very long time, been doing almost nothing to my crushed tomatoes, a little salt, sugar and dried herbs. As part of my weekend Mack's pizza clone challenge, I'm going to give the MAE a try and refrigerate my sauce overnight.

Chris

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1937 on: August 27, 2015, 12:12:40 PM »
Norma,

Were you pleased with the taste of the Walmart/MAE sauce? If not, do you have another recommendation for the Mack's clone sauce?

The MAE technique of flavor extraction is some very interesting information, "thanks for the link". I have for a very long time, been doing almost nothing to my crushed tomatoes, a little salt, sugar and dried herbs. As part of my weekend Mack's pizza clone challenge, I'm going to give the MAE a try and refrigerate my sauce overnight.

Chris

Chris,

I was very pleased with the Walmart/MAE sauce for a Mack's clone.  It is almost exactly like I use for my boardwalk style pizzas using a professional brand and the same ingredients.  In my opinion the sauce, cheese/cheeses and the crust have to almost be in perfect balance for a really good pizza.

Good luck with trying the MAE method and refrigerating the sauce overnight.  Let us know what you think whether good or bad.

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1938 on: Yesterday at 12:49:36 PM »
Peter or Norma

I skimmed threw the posts on the dough formulation and did not find where it mentioned your fermentation technique "Room Temp or Cold" and recommended duration for the Mack's clone. If one of you could let me know I'd appreciate it.

Chris

Offline norma427

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1939 on: Yesterday at 05:59:19 PM »
Peter or Norma

I skimmed threw the posts on the dough formulation and did not find where it mentioned your fermentation technique "Room Temp or Cold" and recommended duration for the Mack's clone. If one of you could let me know I'd appreciate it.

Chris

Chris,

I only did less than a day cold fermentation.  I explained how I mixed the dough and what happened that I didn't mix the day before, or Monday morning at Reply 1918 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg393676#msg393676  I used room temperature water.

The dough did sit at room temperature on Tuesday to warm-up longer than I wanted.  I would guess the ambient room temperature was about 87 degrees F.  That was posted about at Reply 1919 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg393853#msg393853   I used 0.20% IDY the same as Peter did.

Peter can explain the protocols he used if he wants to.

Norma

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1940 on: Yesterday at 09:39:10 PM »
Peter can explain the protocols he used if he wants to.
Chris,

In my later experiments, including the formulation Norma used earlier this week, I used three days of cold fermentation. My recollection is that between Norma and me, and maybe a couple other members, we played around with cold fermentation windows of from one day to about four or five days. However, we felt that Mack's, as a high volume, non-artisan producer, may have used about one or two days of cold fermentation. Anything longer would have required substantial cold storage capacity. In a home setting, you can go as long as you like to coax more flavors out of the dough even though the finished pizzas might not be quite a Mack's or M&M clone. When I looked at photos of the Mack's pizzas, and especially the rims, they did not look like multi-day crusts to me.

Norma indicated that she used the same amount of IDY as I did for my 3-day dough except that she used about one day of cold fermentation plus a long temper on the bench. If she goes to a straight one-day cold fermented dough, she may need to use more IDY, maybe something in the range of 0.60-0.65%. The actual value will depend on the temperatures at market, especially when tempering the dough. This is a matter I touched upon at Reply 924 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9068.msg177461;topicseen#msg177461.

Peter

Offline hodgey1

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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1941 on: Yesterday at 10:02:43 PM »
Norma & Peter,

Thank you both for the information, time and effort!

Chris


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Re: NJ Boardwalk Pizza
« Reply #1942 on: Today at 02:11:56 PM »
Dough is made and set for a one day cold fermentation using Peter recommendation of .6% yeast. Time is an issue for my wife and I this weekend because of a wedding or otherwise I would have opted for a three day cold.